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In this thread I would like to prove definitively that evolution is factually incorrect and actually just a part of a new religion called Science which has been adopted by Atheists requiring illogical leaps of faith from its followers just as all religions do. One thing I have noticed is that the biggest opponent of evolution is religious believers like Christians who support the theory of creationism. What typically happens is that Atheists who believe in evolution attack the religion of the creationist pointing out the logical flaws in their silly usually misinterpreted religion as a way of defending evolution. This is not a valid way to defend evolution and merely a desperate attempt to substantiate their claims in my opinion.

All religions are a form of social control and all religions, including science, require many leaps of illogical faith this is why the definition of religion is any belief held to with faith or ardor. I contend that Science is the modern day religion of the times. I practice and worship no religion. I am merely a seeker of true knowledge and a free thinker. I believe it’s time we stopped spreading lies and deception teaching it to our children as fact in schools aka brain washing indoctrination pens for the youth. This also applies to religious fanatics who impose their flawed misinterpreted religious beliefs on helpless children who are too young and naive to question what they are being taught.

Here is a brief outline of the topics I will discuss that undoubtedly disprove Darwin’s theory of evolution.

1. Spontaneous Generation The idea that inanimate matter could somehow miraculously create organic matter, consciousness, and living beings. A common belief in the past.

2. Transitional Fossil Forms (missing link) The belief that fossils would be found in the future showing once species transitioning into another species.

3. Assumption of Simplicity of Cell In the past cells observed under a microscope were believed to consist of few easily assembled components completely underestimating the complexity of a cell and its functions.

4.The Cambrian Explosion Fossils appearing suddenly without any predecessors or signs of evolution.

5.Adaptation The confusion of adaptation being proof of evolution.

SPONTANEOUS GENERATION

According to evolution everything evolved from the ocean from single celled organisms. How did life get there to begin with? There are two basic theories not including creationism. One is panspermia which is the belief that life exists throughout the universe and was seeded into the oceans either by comets and meteorites or other unknown means including possible extraterrestrial visitations by technologically advanced civilizations. The other theory is what Darwin himself believed and that is spontaneous generation.

Darwin believed in Spontaneous Generation as described in his famous letter to Joseph Hooker. It is this idea that inspired the Miller Urey experiment where scientists used chemicals in a flask representing the elementary chemicals that supposedly made up earth when it was first formed like water, methane, ammonia, hydrogen and also a constant electrical spark to represent lightning. Not surprisingly they failed to create any type of life from this concoction. Spontaneous generation has been disproven over and over it does not exist. In fact, according to spontaneous generation, rotting flesh could produce maggots. That is a perfect example of a misunderstanding of nature by those who believe in spontaneous generation and this is the type of flawed logic that is being used to describe evolution.

Many people believe that Spontaneous Generation is an outdated idea of the past and no longer used in science. That is not true either. Today science is trying to prove, and even teaches, that inanimate physical objects such as the brain can create something completely unphysical like consciousness. That is nothing more than foolish spontaneous generation on hyper steroids masquerading as a sound theory. Just as the Miller Urey experiments failed to produce amino acids that would bind together into proteins and cells no experiment will ever be able to create consciousness from physical things because the brain does not create consciousness.

TRANSITIONAL FOSSIL FORMS (The Missing Link)

Darwin knew that the extensive fossil collection he had gathered did not support his claims about evolution. This is because the fossil record shows no evidence of one species transitioning into another one. In his book he states, "The distinctiveness of specific forms, and their not being blended together by innumerable transitional links, is a very obvious difficulty... Why then is not every geological formation and every stratum full of such intermediate links? Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory" (p. 287).

To put it very simply Darwin had hoped that in the future when more fossils were found that some of those fossils would show a transition from one species to another. It has been over 150 years and still no fossil evidence has ever been found to support a transition from one species to another. In fact the opposite has occurred whereby many more species than Darwin ever could have imagined with no evolutionary link have been discovered. It appalls me the absurd claims that scientists will make to try to substantiate this “missing link.” To support these absurd theory’s that Humans may have evolved from primates supposed pre human bones they often claim are Cro-Magnon (human) such as the famous “Lucy” skeleton is not human at all, but primate bones! There is no transitional forms and as Darwin himself said, “and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory.”

ASSUMPTION OF CELL SIMPLICITY

Darwin lived in a time where only simple crude microscopes were available and not much was known about the cell. Darwin assumed they were primitive and could be easily assembled hints why he thought spontaneous generation could easily create them. Cell evolution is an impossibility as something called irreducible complexity demonstrates. A cell cannot function without all its parts working together harmoniously all at the same time. So either all the parts of the cell must have come into existence at the same time or the cell would not function and it would die. This directly contradicts evolution which proposes the parts evolved one at a time. The definition of irreducible complexity is a system which is composed of several interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning. In his book Darwin stated, ““If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case.” Today, with the advances in technology and understandings of biology and cell function, this has absolutely been demonstrated and the theory of evolution does in fact break down.

THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION

According to the fossil record which has never revealed any transitional fossils during the Cambrian period approximately 542 million years ago most of the animal phyla suddenly appeared all together with absolutely no evolution taking place. The Cambrian explosion completely destroys Darwin’s tree of life and Darwin himself said, "To the question why we do not find rich fossiliferous deposits belonging to these assumed earliest periods prior to the Cambrian system, I can give no satisfactory answer ... The difficulty of assigning any good reason for the absence of vast piles of strata rich in fossils beneath the Cambrian is very great . . . The case at present must remain inexplicable; and may be truly urged as a valid argument against the views here entertained" ( The Origin of Species, pp. 309-310).

Darwin is telling you himself that his theory is flawed and yet these ideas are still being pushed why is this? In fact a more accurate representation of Darwin’s tree of life according to the fossil record is to completely flip it upside down with many animals suddenly appearing at once with no evolution taking place at all.

ADAPTATION

The very last thing that Darwin has going for him is adaptation. I do agree that animals are capable of adapting to their environment over time such as a butterfly changing its camouflage or animals trapped on an island growing smaller. Simple adaptation observed in different species what Darwin terms variation of species cannot be used as evidence of evolution. Adaptation is also called adaptive traits. Traits are influenced by genes which is a portion of a chromosome, which is a very long and compacted string of DNA and proteins. Understand that inside every species DNA has the blueprints for many different physical traits. When the elephant gets stuck on the island and begins to shrink it is not evolving to be smaller it is simply activating different traits within its DNA which make it shrink in size thus becoming better adapted to its environment and limited resources.

When your hair or eye color is inherited you have traits for many different colors within your DNA. If in the future your offspring inherit differently colored eyes or hair than you have that is not proof of evolution it just shows different traits being activated. The elephant or any species for that matter is not capable of evolving into another species because the blueprints for the other species are not present in its DNA, but the trait for the elephant becoming smaller is. The same way the pigeons Darwin was fascinated with displayed different traits yet they were all still pigeons there was no evolution taking place just different pigeons displaying different traits they all have within their identical DNA.

In conclusion I hope you now see the fundamental flaws in the theory of evolution. I believe it is of critical importance that we stop mass brainwashing our children with propaganda and lies. Evolution has no place in school. Science is nothing more than a religion requiring illogical leaps of faith. For those that claim science is not a religion I would like to point out that it is just as illogical to believe in a big bang as it is to believe in a creator God. Both are religions and as I said all religions are nothing more than a means of social control to dominate the masses. It is time we start to think for our self and you as a free thinker should question everything you are told especially by those who claim to be an authority over you. I am sovereign and there is none who have authority over me. I will continue to think and ponder the greater meanings of life and I hope you will also.

If you would like to know more about the true nature of reality here is a link to another thread I have created. The Predator of Consciousness
FocusedIntent
According to evolution everything evolved from the ocean from single celled organisms. How did life get there to begin with?


Evolution doesn't judge; according to evolution, if there were single celled organisms in the ocean to begin with, then different species would be generated.
I want to talk to you about the miller Urey experiment, by talking about the aether.

How much do you know about the studies into the aether around the 19th century? That is, the Michelson-Morley Experiment. Are you aware of experiments like LIGO which we currently spend millions of dollars on, aimed to basically do the same thing? Do you know why this is?
Also, to annoy both the poster and anyone with formalism in stats, lets look at the liter-year sample size of the Miller Urey experiment:

~5 liters for ~20 years = 100 liter-years.

Volume of earth's oceans = ~10^21 L
Time before life: ~ 1x10^9 Years

Gives us 1 x 10^30 liter-years .

So you have a sample size of

.0000000000000000000000001%

And you want to draw a definite conclusion.

Keep in mind, an opinion poll of a single person, used to extrapolate to the entire population, uses a sample size of order magnitude

.00000001%
Vannak
I want to talk to you about the miller Urey experiment, by talking about the aether.

How much do you know about the studies into the aether around the 19th century? That is, the Michelson-Morley Experiment. Are you aware of experiments like LIGO which we currently spend millions of dollars on, aimed to basically do the same thing? Do you know why this is?


The Michelson Morley experiment has nothing to do with the Miller Urey experiment or evolution theory...

According to the Michelson Morley experiment aether doesn't exist I'm not sure what your point is? I know that LIGO is trying to detect gravitational waves from space.

Vannak
So you have a sample size of

.0000000000000000000000001%

And you want to draw a definite conclusion.

Keep in mind, an opinion poll of a single person, used to extrapolate to the entire population, uses a sample size of order magnitude

.00000001%


Honestly I don't think the sample size matters you could make the experiment as big as you want and last for as long as you want wouldn't matter. Amino acids may be formed, but they are not going to combine into proteins that will then assemble themselves into a cell. Wouldn't this completely make DNA and RNA useless if it could happen? Not to mention how would the DNA be created?

Think about it the DNA depends on proteins to function and the proteins depend on DNA for sequencing they don't exist with out the other. Its the old chicken and the egg paradox. They both had to come into existence at the exact same time there is no evolution involved.
FocusedIntent
Darwin believed in Spontaneous Generation as described in his famous letter to Joseph Hooker.

Darwin included few statements on the origin of life in his books. As underlined by Aulie (1970) this is what he wanted to make public. Over and over again he carefully emphasized the lack of evidence on the possibility of spontaneous generation.

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It is this idea that inspired the Miller Urey experiment where scientists used chemicals in a flask representing the elementary chemicals that supposedly made up earth when it was first formed like water, methane, ammonia, hydrogen and also a constant electrical spark to represent lightning. Not surprisingly they failed to create any type of life from this concoction.

His experiment showed that amino acids could arise in the pre-life Earth environment, an important precursor to abiogenesis.

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Spontaneous generation has been disproven over and over it does not exist. In fact, according to spontaneous generation, rotting flesh could produce maggots. That is a perfect example of a misunderstanding of nature by those who believe in spontaneous generation and this is the type of flawed logic that is being used to describe evolution.

You are conflating spontaneous generation with abiogenesis. Most biologists accept the possibility of abiogenesis, while none entertain the notion of spontaneous generation. Neither spontaneous generation nor abiogenesis are part of the theory of evolution.

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Many people believe that Spontaneous Generation is an outdated idea of the past and no longer used in science. That is not true either. Today science is trying to prove, and even teaches, that inanimate physical objects such as the brain can create something completely unphysical like consciousness.

That is not spontaneous generation. That is materialism.

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Darwin knew that the extensive fossil collection he had gathered did not support his claims about evolution. This is because the fossil record shows no evidence of one species transitioning into another one.

Every fossil gathered is a transitional organism, because every population of organisms on Earth is actively evolving.

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It has been over 150 years and still no fossil evidence has ever been found to support a transition from one species to another.

Except for these.

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To support these absurd theory’s that Humans may have evolved from primates supposed pre human bones they often claim are Cro-Magnon (human) such as the famous “Lucy” skeleton is not human at all, but primate bones!

Lucy was never claimed to be Cro-Magnon. She was Australopithecus afarensis. Cro-Magnon lived over 3 million years after Lucy died.

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Cell evolution is an impossibility as something called irreducible complexity demonstrates. A cell cannot function without all its parts working together harmoniously all at the same time. So either all the parts of the cell must have come into existence at the same time or the cell would not function and it would die. This directly contradicts evolution which proposes the parts evolved one at a time. The definition of irreducible complexity is a system which is composed of several interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning.

No irreducibly complex system has ever been shown to exist. The ones that have been proposed generally ignore exaptation models that otherwise explain the evolution of the system. Once exaptation is accounted for, the irreducibly complex claim has fallen apart every time.

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According to the fossil record which has never revealed any transitional fossils during the Cambrian period approximately 542 million years ago most of the animal phyla suddenly appeared all together with absolutely no evolution taking place.

This is incorrect. The Cambrian explosion occurred over several million years. It was not sudden in the way a creation process would be sudden. What makes it stand out is that there was much less noticeable evolutionary development before the Cambrian explosion, so that evolution appeared to accelerate. This happened because organisms were evolving the whole time up until the explosion event, and reached a stage in development that was conducive for diversification. Evolution is actually very consistent with such spurts.

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When the elephant gets stuck on the island and begins to shrink it is not evolving to be smaller it is simply activating different traits within its DNA which make it shrink in size thus becoming better adapted to its environment and limited resources.

When your hair or eye color is inherited you have traits for many different colors within your DNA. If in the future your offspring inherit differently colored eyes or hair than you have that is not proof of evolution it just shows different traits being activated.

No. Just... no. Genes are inherited, not activated. You only have two copies of a gene, not several. You need to familiarize yourself with the bare basics of genetics, because you are not even close to understanding it.


Look, you clearly lack enough understanding of the basic terms to even come to the table of the discussion. If you're really serious about discussing it, you need to do some independent reading from a non-biased source so that you know what you're talking about. It's one thing to disagree over whether a given fossil is transitional; it's another thing entirely to confuse abiogenesis with spontaneous generation, to confuse two species that lived millions of years apart, or to show a complete lack of understanding of how organisms inherit traits. I'm not trying to be mean or bully you out of the discussion; I'm just trying to make you aware that you haven't even really joined it yet.
Mooby
You are conflating spontaneous generation with abiogenesis. Most biologists accept the possibility of abiogenesis, while none entertain the notion of spontaneous generation. Neither spontaneous generation nor abiogenesis are part of the theory of evolution.

Yea they are both basically the same claiming that life could arise from inanimate matter. You can call it whatever you like it remains flawed. I never claimed it was part of the evolution theory, but it was what Darwin believed in this is why he believed it would be possible for life to start on it's own in the ocean.

Mooby
Every fossil gathered is a transitional organism, because every population of organisms on Earth is actively evolving.

That is an opinion not a fact.

Mooby
Except for these
Yes I've seen the lists. What is meant by saying that no transitional fossils exist is there are no complete fossil records showing a single celled organism evolving from beginning to present day with all of it's transitions documented. It's easy to find a couple similar looking fossils and throw them together claiming they came from similar ancestors and that is what I mean when I say scientists will go to any lengths to attempt to prove the theory. This is called Homology and is fundamentally flawed I can make all kinds of transitional fossils this way if I want, but they are all disputable. On the list look how they jump from the flat fish to the eel to the seahorse and then back to the fish. Where is the transitional fossils showing the eel slowly turn into the seahorse I consider these silly lists to be completely invalid speculation. Just because two animals have similar traits does not mean they have common ancestors that is speculation.

Have you ever heard of the Archaeoraptor? It was a supposed transitional fossil showing the missing link between birds and dinosaurs, but it was found to be constructed and put together by scientists with glue... lol Again, they will go to any length, its best to use your own judgment.

Moody
Lucy was never claimed to be Cro-Magnon. She was Australopithecus afarensis. Cro-Magnon lived over 3 million years after Lucy died.


No, your missing my point they tell people that primate bones are pre human bones that is a lie.

Moody
Once exaptation is accounted for, the irreducibly complex claim has fallen apart every time.
No it doesn't. Exaptation can't explain how cells could come into existence by evolving. As I just said above in the last post:

Think about it the DNA depends on proteins to function and the proteins depend on DNA for sequencing they don't exist with out the other. Its the old chicken and the egg paradox. They both had to come into existence at the exact same time there is no evolution involved.



Moody
This is incorrect. The Cambrian explosion occurred over several million years. It was not sudden in the way a creation process would be sudden. What makes it stand out is that there was much less noticeable evolutionary development before the Cambrian explosion, so that evolution appeared to accelerate. This happened because organisms were evolving the whole time up until the explosion event, and reached a stage in development that was conducive for diversification. Evolution is actually very consistent with such spurts.


Darwin himself admitted that the sudden appearance of the fossils went against his theory you can try to explain it away all you like.

Moody
No. Just... no. Genes are inherited, not activated. You only have two copies of a gene, not several. You need to familiarize yourself with the bare basics of genetics, because you are not even close to understanding it.

That is incorrect apparently you have never heard of epigenetics. Genetic determinism is an old idea that is being replaced. There is no such thing as junk DNA there are variables in genetic expression and the way in which the genes manifest. Some of these variables are mental some are environmental and the gene expression can vary depending on lifestyle like diet and exercise habits.
FocusedIntent
Vannak
I want to talk to you about the miller Urey experiment, by talking about the aether.

How much do you know about the studies into the aether around the 19th century? That is, the Michelson-Morley Experiment. Are you aware of experiments like LIGO which we currently spend millions of dollars on, aimed to basically do the same thing? Do you know why this is?


The Michelson Morley experiment has nothing to do with the Miller Urey experiment or evolution theory...

According to the Michelson Morley experiment aether doesn't exist I'm not sure what your point is? I know that LIGO is trying to detect gravitational waves from space.

So basically, we found out hundreds of years ago that aether doesn't exist, yet we're using the same experiment to measure the same kind of possibly existing effect. Why do you think these scientists do this, rather than realize that their experiment was done hundreds of years ago?

FocusedIntent
Vannak
So you have a sample size of

.0000000000000000000000001%

And you want to draw a definite conclusion.

Keep in mind, an opinion poll of a single person, used to extrapolate to the entire population, uses a sample size of order magnitude

.00000001%


Honestly I don't think the sample size matters you could make the experiment as big as you want and last for as long as you want wouldn't matter. Amino acids may be formed, but they are not going to combine into proteins that will then assemble themselves into a cell.

First of all, the Miller Urey Experiments used conditions that DID NOT match early earth, and therefore can't be used to prove any impossibility statement.

Secondly, the sample size does matter. For instance, i can look at a teaspoon of ocean water and find no whales. This does not imply or prove that whales don't exist.

This becomes obvious when you take "As big as you want" and "as long as you want", and you make the experiment much smaller and last less time.

There are some areas where (we hope) sample size doesn't matter. But in those cases we usually require repeated measurements for accuracy, and we need to test these cases more stringently in different environments. For instance, you don't need to measure a percentage of photons to find their mass is zero. A few dozen trials will do. However, as I said before, we need to check different environments and we need to sample these environments. To break your head, photons have mass inside of a superconductor. Sampling is always required in one way or another, be it through time, space, or (usually and) environment.


FocusedIntent
Wouldn't this completely make DNA and RNA useless if it could happen? Not to mention how would the DNA be created?

Only in the same ways that eyes are irrelevent because, hey, you could reproduce before eyes, right? We think RNA was around before life, or at least that what is and is not life is fuzzy when you talk about RNA structures. Like Viruses. But we think that DNA came later, and was an adaptation like cells or eyes. Like all other features in evolution, there is a definite separation between cells and viruses. Even if you don't call viruses alive, evolution doesn't require life- it requires imperfect reproduction and selection.

FocusedIntent
Think about it the DNA depends on proteins to function and the proteins depend on DNA for sequencing they don't exist with out the other. Its the old chicken and the egg paradox. They both had to come into existence at the exact same time there is no evolution involved.
You need to look up RNA a little bit more. RNA is functional and self folding: That means that it does what proteins do by folding itself.

I mean, like in the same way that water folds itself into a 104.5 degree angle, and methane into 109 and 108 degrees. The atoms and electrons in your atomic structure, as a molecule, determine how you fold. Other things like enzymes and proteins can come into this picture and change things up, but they change how molecules fold; they do not enable it.
Vannak
You need to look up RNA a little bit more. RNA is functional and self folding: That means that it does what proteins do by folding itself.

I mean, like in the same way that water folds itself into a 104.5 degree angle, and methane into 109 and 108 degrees. The atoms and electrons in your atomic structure, as a molecule, determine how you fold. Other things like enzymes and proteins can come into this picture and change things up, but they change how molecules fold; they do not enable it.


I think your missing the paradox. Protein cannot be created apart from DNA, yet DNA requires proteins in order to function. You can't have one without the other so which one came first the chicken or the egg?


Well here's a interesting short video about irreducible complexity to help illustrate some of these points.

Irreducible Complexity
FocusedIntent
Vannak
You need to look up RNA a little bit more. RNA is functional and self folding: That means that it does what proteins do by folding itself.

I mean, like in the same way that water folds itself into a 104.5 degree angle, and methane into 109 and 108 degrees. The atoms and electrons in your atomic structure, as a molecule, determine how you fold. Other things like enzymes and proteins can come into this picture and change things up, but they change how molecules fold; they do not enable it.


I think your missing the paradox. Protein cannot be created apart from DNA, yet DNA requires proteins in order to function. You can't have one without the other so which one came first the chicken or the egg?


Well here's a interesting short video about irreducible complexity to help illustrate some of these points.

Irreducible Complexity
this is only a paradox if you dismiss RNA. RNA doesn't need proteins to do all of it'd functions,and it is itself functional as a protein is.
FocusedIntent
Here is a brief outline of the topics I will discuss that undoubtedly disprove Darwin’s theory of evolution.


I accept that Darwin's theory of evolution is incorrect, but that has to do with over 100 years of ongoing work in the field having significantly improved upon it over time rather than your fairly poor arguments outlined below.

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In fact, according to spontaneous generation, rotting flesh could produce maggots.


False equivalence. A maggot is not the same as a very simplistic proto-cell or virus or whatever came about first (I am not at all well versed on abiogenetic hypotheses).

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no experiment will ever be able to create consciousness from physical things because the brain does not create consciousness


"We don't know therefore God" is a really shitty argument with a really poor historical performance. We don't know where lightning comes from, therefore Zeus, Thor, Satan, or what ever other mystical entity you prefer.

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There is no transitional forms and as Darwin himself said, “and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection to my theory.”


And over 100 years of ongoing research have shown numerous transitional fossils in a multitude of species. Why are his quotes on the state of the fossil record over 100 years ago of any modern relevance to the state of the fossil record?

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Today, with the advances in technology and understandings of biology and cell function, this has absolutely been demonstrated and the theory of evolution does in fact break down.


The argument of irreducible complexity is "I don't know therefore God" all over again.

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THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION


We get it, Darwin lived a long time ago.

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The elephant or any species for that matter is not capable of evolving into another species because the blueprints for the other species are not present in its DNA,


But we have observed multiple instances of speciation. Then again, I suppose you will just say that those aren't "real" speciation events because it wasn't an elephant turning into a church mouse. At which point you are arguing against a straw man of evolution, not anything related to the real theory and thus anything you say can be dismissed.

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For those that claim science is not a religion I would like to point out that it is just as illogical to believe in a big bang as it is to believe in a creator God.


How so?
Vannak
this is only a paradox if you dismiss RNA. RNA doesn't need proteins to do all of it'd functions,and it is itself functional as a protein is.


RNA needs both proteins and DNA to function it can't begin transcription without DNA.

Doubtful Dreamer
I accept that Darwin's theory of evolution is incorrect, but that has to do with over 100 years of ongoing work in the field having significantly improved upon it over time rather than your fairly poor arguments outlined below.


If you think my arguments are poor then why don't you add to them and help the reader understand why evolution is incorrect?

DD
False equivalence. A maggot is not the same as a very simplistic proto-cell or virus or whatever came about first (I am not at all well versed on abiogenetic hypotheses).

Yes I agree I said that just to show absurd the ideas of life spawning from inanimate matter is. The one guy made a big deal about the distinction from abiogenetics and spontaneous generation for fun I looked at an online dictionary and here is what it said:

a-bi-o-gen-e-sis
1. the now discredited theory that living organisms can arise spontaneously from inanimate matter; spontaneous generation.

Haha hey MOODY what do you think about that definition^^^^^^^^
here is the link to the dictionary.
Online Dictionary

I feel that this is very important because if abiogenetics is discredited then so is evolution and somebody might ask why. Well the only other theory besides creationism is panspermia. And even panspermia depends on spontaneous generation unless you believe a creator made life somewhere else and it slowly spread to here....

DD
"We don't know therefore God" is a really shitty argument with a really poor historical performance. We don't know where lightning comes from, therefore Zeus, Thor, Satan, or what ever other mystical entity you prefer.

I never claimed that God created anything, but no physical thing will ever create something as unphysical as consciousness just as inanimate matter will never create life. You know what's funny is that even today people still don't know exactly what electricity is it's defined as a physical phenomena. People can tell you what it does, how it reacts, how it's made, and give you a vague description of where it comes from. They don't know what it actually is. Some electrician said that I can't remember his name. He was saying how he knows how to move electricity around, but doesn't know what it is.

DD
And over 100 years of ongoing research have shown numerous transitional fossils in a multitude of species. Why are his quotes on the state of the fossil record over 100 years ago of any modern relevance to the state of the fossil record?
I don't believe that these transitional fossils are legitimate as I said that is homology and just because two species have similar traits does not mean they have common ancestors. There is a real agenda within the scientific community to prove evolution so when you go purposefully looking to find transitional fossils your gonna find fossils that are close enough and then group them together. Scientists have been making these false claims for a long time. The sad thing is there is never any real transitions from one species to another.

DD

The argument of irreducible complexity is "I don't know therefore God" all over again.
Personally I don't think it has anything to do with god at all. It just shows that some systems are too complex to evolve because for the system to function every part must be present and operational otherwise the entire system fails.

DD
We get it, Darwin lived a long time ago.
Yes he did, but why did you mention that in regards to the Cambrian explosion? The Cambrian explosion shows the majority of fossils rapidly coming into existence and not evolving at all.

DD
But we have observed multiple instances of speciation. Then again, I suppose you will just say that those aren't "real" speciation events because it wasn't an elephant turning into a church mouse. At which point you are arguing against a straw man of evolution, not anything related to the real theory and thus anything you say can be dismissed.

No I just don't think speciation is creating new species just variations of the same similar to different breeds if you want to call it that.
FocusedIntent
I feel that this is very important because if abiogenetics is discredited then so is evolution and somebody might ask why.


The thing is, evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis. Furthermore, the lack of a abiogenetic theory does not make abiogenesis an impossibility.

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I never claimed that God created anything, but no physical thing will ever create something as unphysical as consciousness just as inanimate matter will never create life.


"I don't know therefore mystical force beyond human comprehension" is the same argument as "I don't know therefore God." Just because you aren't attaching a specific religious entity does not mean you are not reverting to the same non-argument.

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You know what's funny is that even today people still don't know exactly what electricity is it's defined as a physical phenomena. People can tell you what it does, how it reacts, how it's made, and give you a vague description of where it comes from. They don't know what it actually is. Some electrician said that I can't remember his name. He was saying how he knows how to move electricity around, but doesn't know what it is.


It would seem that this person was unfamiliar with the band theory of solids.

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I don't believe that these transitional fossils are legitimate as I said that is homology and just because two species have similar traits does not mean they have common ancestors. There is a real agenda within the scientific community to prove evolution so when you go purposefully looking to find transitional fossils your gonna find fossils that are close enough and then group them together. Scientists have been making these false claims for a long time. The sad thing is there is never any real transitions from one species to another.


What is gained by falsely supporting evolution? Also, what would define a "real transition" from one species to another? As I already said, we have directly observed numerous instances of speciation, even under laboratory conditions. In the fossil record, transitional fossils are based upon morphological, geographical and historical arguments.

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Personally I don't think it has anything to do with god at all. It just shows that some systems are too complex to evolve because for the system to function every part must be present and operational otherwise the entire system fails.


Substituting some other immaterial entity for "God" does not change anything, as I stated above.

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Yes he did, but why did you mention that in regards to the Cambrian explosion? The Cambrian explosion shows the majority of fossils rapidly coming into existence and not evolving at all.


Your argument was based upon Darwin's view of the Cambrian explosion which is substantially out of date. More modern treatments have largely dealt with the problem.

Quote:
No I just don't think speciation is creating new species just variations of the same similar to different breeds if you want to call it that.


So, a new species arising from an old population as a result of specific mutations is not good enough. So, what is good enough? We have rather specific and novel mutations that add new functionality, such as the nylonase set of mutations if you prefer something like that instead, but that didn't seem to fall into the speciation event category.
FocusedIntent
Vannak
this is only a paradox if you dismiss RNA. RNA doesn't need proteins to do all of it'd functions,and it is itself functional as a protein is.


RNA needs both proteins and DNA to function it can't begin transcription without DNA.
First of all, every molecule has a "function", in the sense that it has properties which can change things around them. DNA does stuff, even if its not replicate and generating genes. Atoms and molecules just do things. Proteins and such are just molecules which changes in shape have specific energy barriers, and those changes in shape do vastly different things. Such as hemoglobin grabbing and throwing off oxygen atoms, or DNA creating another protein, or duplicating, etc.

Its important to realize that all molecules, in some sense, do something. What we really have to ask is under which conditions, if any, allow for molecules to replicate. Forget DNA, and even RNA. If something can imperfectly replicate and has selection pressure, it can evolve. Note viruses, computer programs, and memes. Life can be an adaptation of molecular evolution.

Also, I think you should keep on the point about trials and LIGO. Its really important to understand core concepts along each of those conversations if you want to understand science in general.

Hygienic Gawker

FocusedIntent
Vannak
this is only a paradox if you dismiss RNA. RNA doesn't need proteins to do all of it'd functions,and it is itself functional as a protein is.


RNA needs both proteins and DNA to function it can't begin transcription without DNA.


woah guys turns out RNA is DNA-dependent, quick we need to get the memo out to all the RNA viruses! I've got Ebola and HCV on twitter, can someone ring Coronavirus and tell him he doesn't exist?

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