Human Cloning Unethical?

[Golden Dysprosium]

Just throwing it out there: you don't need to go through the whole process of cloning to create new organs. All you need is love stem cells.

[ShiftyT]

Golden Dysprosium

That's not the same. I know, since I did a project about that. Besides, that's just a cell dividing (I find skin cells to be rather lack-lustre; nerves and macrophages are cooler) , as opposed to with cloning which is the whole sperm+egg routine.

According to law, it is the same.

[ShiftyT]

Golden Dysprosium

Just throwing it out there: you don't need to go through the whole process of cloning to create new organs. All you need is love stem cells.

Using stem cells with someone else's DNA usually has problems, and doesn't turn out well.

[Golden Dysprosium]

ShiftyT

Golden Dysprosium

That's not the same. I know, since I did a project about that. Besides, that's just a cell dividing (I find skin cells to be rather lack-lustre; nerves and macrophages are cooler) , as opposed to with cloning which is the whole sperm+egg routine.

According to law, it is the same.

What "law" states that you need cloning to create skin cells? Hell, they're not even created via the same process. Cloning involves gamates which produce an organism through a couple thousand rounds of meiosis, just as a regular embryo would. Stratified squamous epithelial cells (skin cells) are produced via mitosis in the basal membrane. The nice thing is, skin is defined as being an organ, since it meets the criteria.
So, like I said, WTF are you talking about?

Quote:

Using stem cells with someone else's DNA usually has problems, and doesn't turn out well

I know. It's subject to (roughly) the same problem they had with blood transfusions, except with blood it's merely a question of matching up antigens, which isn't overly vexing, since there are only a handful of blood types.
For "best" results, you'd have to take the stem cells from the patient's own red bone marrow to grow a new organ, but I'd be somewhat skeptical about the effectiveness, since red bone marrow cells aren't as versatile as, say, umbilical stem cells.

[Pondering Horizon]

Well say we did have the tech to clone humans, we could easily accidentally overpopulate Earth and end up killing us all.

[Golden Dysprosium]

Pondering Horizon

Well say we did have the tech to clone humans, we could easily accidentally overpopulate Earth and end up killing us all.

I can't see them mass producing clones for anything but war, like they did in Star Wars, or as doubles to foil assassination attempts.

[Kiraden]

Golden Dysprosium

Pondering Horizon

Well say we did have the tech to clone humans, we could easily accidentally overpopulate Earth and end up killing us all.

I can't see them mass producing clones for anything but war, like they did in Star Wars, or as doubles to foil assassination attempts.

That's the thing, clones can't be made fast enough to make an army or anything. The term "test tube baby" is a complete misnomer. For a clone to be made, the embryo has to be put into a woman to birth it. Good luck finding 200 fertile women who are willing to have clones born in their ----s. Not to mention that (right now at least) cloning has a high failure rate. It took 277 tries to clone Dolly, a sheep. Imagine how many tries it will take to make a human clone.

Clones also aren't born as adults. They age too, so bottom line: If you want an army, hire a mercenary corporation.

[ShiftyT]

Golden Dysprosium

What "law" states that you need cloning to create skin cells? Hell, they're not even created via the same process. Cloning involves gamates which produce an organism through a couple thousand rounds of meiosis, just as a regular embryo would. Stratified squamous epithelial cells (skin cells) are produced via mitosis in the basal membrane. The nice thing is, skin is defined as being an organ, since it meets the criteria.
So, like I said, WTF are you talking about?

I was talking about using cloning to get same DNA stem cells to restore skin cells, since that was what the OP was talking about. I'm sure he meant for fourth degree burns, as an alternative grafting method. Embryonic stem cells are a potentially viable method:

"Human embryonic stem-cell derivatives for full reconstruction of the pluristratified epidermis: a preclinical study."

Should be able to get this study on Pubmed, JSTOR, Medline, BIOSIS, or whatever your university subscribes to.

Golden Dysprosium

I know. It's subject to (roughly) the same problem they had with blood transfusions, except with blood it's merely a question of matching up antigens, which isn't overly vexing, since there are only a handful of blood types.
For "best" results, you'd have to take the stem cells from the patient's own red bone marrow to grow a new organ, but I'd be somewhat skeptical about the effectiveness, since red bone marrow cells aren't as versatile as, say, umbilical stem cells.

Well that was a rather round about way of saying I agree. lol

[Golden Dysprosium]

ShiftyT

I was talking about using cloning to get same DNA stem cells to restore skin cells, since that was what the OP was talking about. I'm sure he meant for fourth degree burns, as an alternative grafting method.

I thought 3rd degree burns, which are more common than 4th degree, which I haven't heard of because it's apparently not a technical term. Here 3rd degree is considered to be anything deep.
As for skin grafts, I wish I could find that damn site again. Hope I still have that paper on my laptop xp

Quote:

Embryonic stem cells are a potentially viable method:
"Human embryonic stem-cell derivatives for full reconstruction of the pluristratified epidermis: a preclinical study."

"Pluristratified" ? WTF? xd
Embryonic stem cells should be used for vital organs like the heart and lungs; they aren't easy to get (there were actually organ donation ads that ran for a while, parodying the situation with things like "our vena cava really are superior!" and "buy 1 lung, get the other free! ). For "4th degree" burns, I suppose so but I still don't see why we have to go through the whole cloning process. It just seems so excessive. confused

[ShiftyT]

Golden Dysprosium

I thought 3rd degree burns, which are more common than 4th degree, which I haven't heard of because it's apparently not a technical term. Here 3rd degree is considered to be anything deep.
As for skin grafts, I wish I could find that damn site again. Hope I still have that paper on my laptop xp
"Pluristratified" ? WTF? xd
Embryonic stem cells should be used for vital organs like the heart and lungs; they aren't easy to get (there were actually organ donation ads that ran for a while, parodying the situation with things like "our vena cava really are superior!" and "buy 1 lung, get the other free! ). For "4th degree" burns, I suppose so but I still don't see why we have to go through the whole cloning process. It just seems so excessive. confused

The idea is that the embryonic cells can be used as a temporary patch during the three week waiting period when the permanent grafting cells are grown. Thus, reducing complications, and possibly death in these three weeks.

Yea, fourth degree isn't technical, it's colloquial, and this is an informal discussion. But its definition is self explanatory, like giving 110%. A really deep and large third degree burn.

What site, for what paper?

And, if laws were different, supply could be less of a problem.

[Golden Dysprosium]

ShiftyT

Golden Dysprosium

I thought 3rd degree burns, which are more common than 4th degree, which I haven't heard of because it's apparently not a technical term. Here 3rd degree is considered to be anything deep.
As for skin grafts, I wish I could find that damn site again. Hope I still have that paper on my laptop xp
"Pluristratified" ? WTF? xd
Embryonic stem cells should be used for vital organs like the heart and lungs; they aren't easy to get (there were actually organ donation ads that ran for a while, parodying the situation with things like "our vena cava really are superior!" and "buy 1 lung, get the other free! ). For "4th degree" burns, I suppose so but I still don't see why we have to go through the whole cloning process. It just seems so excessive. confused

The idea is that the embryonic cells can be used as a temporary patch during the three week waiting period when the permanent grafting cells are grown. Thus, reducing complications, and possibly death in these three weeks.

Temporary? Why don't they just use the patient's stem cells from their red bone marrow?

Quote:

What site, for what paper?

I wrote a paper about advances in prosthetics (really cool) which included a bit about skin grafts.

[Pondering Horizon]

When I had said if we did have the tech i didn't mean our low level in cloning technology, i meant when we could proficiently do it.

[Golden Dysprosium]

I finded it: http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2001-12/immortal-skin
I doubt anyone cares anymore, but I figured I'd post it, since I wouldn't shut up about it. sweatdrop

[Josephine The Weird]

Well, I have heard that it could be used to clone people to make a baby that is biologic related to the donor, so could be used to help childless couples to have kids.

[Demyan The Devil]

I'm all for the cloning of organs and body parts.