evolution or religion ?

[YS nash]

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

your views are welcome please express them

But this is a science and technology forum and all of my opinions
basically come from religion and spirituality. Mostly philosophies and theories,
but some concrete, unshakable beliefs.

I don't think it would be courteous.

then we can discuss it else where

[Screaminidiot]

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

your views are welcome please express them

But this is a science and technology forum and all of my opinions
basically come from religion and spirituality. Mostly philosophies and theories,
but some concrete, unshakable beliefs.

I don't think it would be courteous.

then we can discuss it else where

PM me if you want, but I'll warn you, my ideas are pretty far out.
I've done a lot of drugs in my life, seen some crazy things man.

I've got philosophies on astral projection, spirit guides, higher selves, aliens, the works.

Used to be the most paranoid guy you'd meet,
still have the thoughts just don't react to them anymore.

[Layra-chan]

Screaminidiot

Layra-chan

They're not mutually exclusive. I believe that evolution happens and I believe that religions also happen. I have concrete observational evidence of churches, although I can't be sure that it isn't just noisy data, nor do I ascribe to the theory that the only possible explanation of churches is in fact religion; it could have been random chance. In fact, I have more concrete evidence for the occurence of religion, both historically and in the present, than I do of evolution, since I have not witnessed as many instances of populations evolving as I have of people acting religious (or, more specifically, events most easily explained as such).

I'm a believer, so I'm curious... what's the evidence?

For evolution? Or religion? For religion, I'd say that the churches are decent evidence. Also, I saw some men going around with little black circles of fabric on their heads, small enough to be completely impractical at keep out either rain or sun. The usual explanation I'm given for such headwear is religious, but again I'm hesitant to say that's the only possible reason people would do things of less than obvious utility.
For evolution, I'd say, oh, observed genetic change in populations of quickly-reproducing organisms such as bacteria, insects, etc. This article gives us an example of mussels developing a new defense trigger over the course of only 15 years!
Even in species with slightly longer generations, we get to see evolution in recently-invasive species. For example, house sparrows, which came to the US in the 19th century (so we know that originally there was only one type) and now come in two distinct color patterns depending on whether you're in the north or the south.
Also, a little more authoritative than me, perhaps, is Talk Origins 29+ evidences for common descent, and Wikipedia's some number of evidences for common descent
You might also want to look at Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution, which explains why evolution and religious beliefs are not necessarily incompatible, and why if you're going to do modern biology, dismissing evolution leaves a gigantic hole which no known alternative can fill.

[Screaminidiot]

Layra-chan

Screaminidiot

Layra-chan

They're not mutually exclusive. I believe that evolution happens and I believe that religions also happen. I have concrete observational evidence of churches, although I can't be sure that it isn't just noisy data, nor do I ascribe to the theory that the only possible explanation of churches is in fact religion; it could have been random chance. In fact, I have more concrete evidence for the occurence of religion, both historically and in the present, than I do of evolution, since I have not witnessed as many instances of populations evolving as I have of people acting religious (or, more specifically, events most easily explained as such).

I'm a believer, so I'm curious... what's the evidence?

For evolution? Or religion? For religion, I'd say that the churches are decent evidence. Also, I saw some men going around with little black circles of fabric on their heads, small enough to be completely impractical at keep out either rain or sun. The usual explanation I'm given for such headwear is religious, but again I'm hesitant to say that's the only possible reason people would do things of less than obvious utility.
For evolution, I'd say, oh, observed genetic change in populations of quickly-reproducing organisms such as bacteria, insects, etc. This article gives us an example of mussels developing a new defense trigger over the course of only 15 years!
Even in species with slightly longer generations, we get to see evolution in recently-invasive species. For example, house sparrows, which came to the US in the 19th century (so we know that originally there was only one type) and now come in two distinct color patterns depending on whether you're in the north or the south.
Also, a little more authoritative than me, perhaps, is Talk Origins 29+ evidences for common descent, and Wikipedia's some number of evidences for common descent
You might also want to look at Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution, which explains why evolution and religious beliefs are not necessarily incompatible, and why if you're going to do modern biology, dismissing evolution leaves a gigantic hole which no known alternative can fill.

Wow. That's awesome, I actually feel the same way.
Whenever someone asks me, "What proof of God is there?"
I always say, "Look at all the churches and statues and s**t around.
You think they would just keep all this s**t around if there wasn't something to it?"

But they can always say, "That still doesn't prove it's real."

And then I just kind of shrug.

[YS nash]

Layra-chan

Screaminidiot

is this your religion your religion

[Screaminidiot]

ready to wear

is this your religion your religion

I'm afraid to click on it. Tell me what it is first.

[Screaminidiot]

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

is this your religion your religion

I'm afraid to click on it. Tell me what it is first.

Why did you want to show me that?

[YS nash]

Screaminidiot

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

is this your religion your religion

I'm afraid to click on it. Tell me what it is first.

Why did you want to show me that?

this is your religion

[Screaminidiot]

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

is this your religion your religion

I'm afraid to click on it. Tell me what it is first.

Why did you want to show me that?

this is your religion

Yeah, you already said that. And it's not.

[YS nash]

emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

is this your religion your religion

I'm afraid to click on it. Tell me what it is first.

Why did you want to show me that?

this is your religion

Yeah, you already said that. And it's not.

emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome

[Screaminidiot]

ready to wear

emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome

Do you have a point to make or what?

[VorpalNeko]

Screaminidiot

Wow. That's awesome, I actually feel the same way.
Whenever someone asks me, "What proof of God is there?"

*Whoosh*
That sound was what the point made while going by.

[YS nash]

VorpalNeko

Screaminidiot

Wow. That's awesome, I actually feel the same way.
Whenever someone asks me, "What proof of God is there?"

*Whoosh*
That sound was what the point made while going by.

emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome emotion_awesome

[bunnies rule all]

Layra-chan

Screaminidiot

Layra-chan

They're not mutually exclusive. I believe that evolution happens and I believe that religions also happen. I have concrete observational evidence of churches, although I can't be sure that it isn't just noisy data, nor do I ascribe to the theory that the only possible explanation of churches is in fact religion; it could have been random chance. In fact, I have more concrete evidence for the occurence of religion, both historically and in the present, than I do of evolution, since I have not witnessed as many instances of populations evolving as I have of people acting religious (or, more specifically, events most easily explained as such).

I'm a believer, so I'm curious... what's the evidence?

For evolution? Or religion? For religion, I'd say that the churches are decent evidence. Also, I saw some men going around with little black circles of fabric on their heads, small enough to be completely impractical at keep out either rain or sun. The usual explanation I'm given for such headwear is religious, but again I'm hesitant to say that's the only possible reason people would do things of less than obvious utility.
For evolution, I'd say, oh, observed genetic change in populations of quickly-reproducing organisms such as bacteria, insects, etc. This article gives us an example of mussels developing a new defense trigger over the course of only 15 years!
Even in species with slightly longer generations, we get to see evolution in recently-invasive species. For example, house sparrows, which came to the US in the 19th century (so we know that originally there was only one type) and now come in two distinct color patterns depending on whether you're in the north or the south.
Also, a little more authoritative than me, perhaps, is Talk Origins 29+ evidences for common descent, and Wikipedia's some number of evidences for common descent
You might also want to look at Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution, which explains why evolution and religious beliefs are not necessarily incompatible, and why if you're going to do modern biology, dismissing evolution leaves a gigantic hole which no known alternative can fill.

Most awesome responses i've seen to date...!

[Shokushu]

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

ready to wear

Screaminidiot

your views are welcome please express them

But this is a science and technology forum and all of my opinions
basically come from religion and spirituality. Mostly philosophies and theories,
but some concrete, unshakable beliefs.

I don't think it would be courteous.

then we can discuss it else where

PM me if you want, but I'll warn you, my ideas are pretty far out.
I've done a lot of drugs in my life, seen some crazy things man.

I've got philosophies on astral projection, spirit guides, higher selves, aliens, the works.

Used to be the most paranoid guy you'd meet,
still have the thoughts just don't react to them anymore.

It's generally useful to know where you're coming from- we like to tailor our approach to an individual so it's more relevant to you (and because we tend to be knowledgeable enough that we can do more than copy and paste a wall of text.)

Screaminidiot

Wow. That's awesome, I actually feel the same way.
Whenever someone asks me, "What proof of God is there?"
I always say, "Look at all the churches and statues and s**t around.
You think they would just keep all this s**t around if there wasn't something to it?"

But they can always say, "That still doesn't prove it's real."

And then I just kind of shrug.

Well there are a couple of things that that could mean, we should look at the options.
There is a god: options are yes and no.
There was a god behind the founding and continuation of those religions: also yes or no.

If we go with double yes then we could basically stop there. That explains at least one religion.
But if we go with either no option then we have to start asking more interesting questions about religion.

Why do people keep doing it? There is the obvious indoctrination angle. Most people that become religious as children stay in that religion for the rest of their lives and generally reject alternatives outright.
Perhaps they are really having these overwhelming personal experiences. Generally we'd call that being crazy but maybe it's something a bit more normal and we're just encouraged to interpret it as this big god revelation.
There are a lot of social functions the churches have been intertwined with so a lot of people go to church just to have friends.