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Hitorein
Angels_Satire
Hitorein
Hehehe, yeaaahhhhh, I got on a little rant there.
I read the first and just wrote what I felt, heheheheh heh, lol.


I don't believe, in the original languages, it ever says that homosexuality is wrong.

Actually, in Genisis, it does.

Forgive me here but you Madam are very ignorant of your own script.

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Its says that 'No man shall lie with a man, for so is an abomination to God. No man shall lie with beast for so is an abomination to God.'


Very very ignorant...

Try Levidicus. Try Hebrew. Try looking up the word Towebeh and realizing that wearing pants is also an "Abomination" as is mixed marrages, wearing makeup, having Gold or Silver or any wood or items in the house which may at any point have been prayed to as a diety, eating Shellfish or pork.
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It also says something about a woman getting pregnant by a beast as well, but I'm not sure about that part. I'll have to look it up again.

o_O I have no idea what you're talking about.
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What gets to me is that in Gods eyes it sin.
Nope
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And sin is sin.
Kinda
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Yet this is one on the MAIN things people fuss about. If they're gonna fight about this what about sex before marriage or drinking or other stuff like that.
Like the fact that if your avitar is a correct guess to your sex then you are sinning by talking about the Bible on an online forum where men may read it. and if you are a male, then you are sinning by having a female Avi and confusing the sexes.

Repent please.
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Its all the same in God's eyes.
exactily.
So I hope you're not wearing a cotten poly blend because you are sinning.
Hitorein
Oh no, its wasn't!
It was written in Hebrew untill around the 1600's one of the European kings gather as many well know schoolars as he could and got them to tranlate it into old english, then we did into english.


You're close
The bible is a collection of 66 separate books written over a time frame of about 1,600 years by 40 different authors.
The Old testament (Hebrew Torah) comprises of 39 books written between 1500 BCE and 400BCE
The New testament contains 27 books written from 40 CE to 90 CE (although these dates are debated adding and removing years depending on who is doing the dating)
The OT is generally the same as the Torah only that the order is different, some things have been removed, some things added and the Torah is left in it's original Hebrew, the Torah is also only part of a larger collection of religious script known as the Tabernak which Christianity has basically cut out.

The OT is written mostly in Hebrew with some old Arabic.
The NT is written mostly in Aramaic and Koinic greek.

In 500 CE the Bible was translated into many languages, however at the same time the Council of Nicea took place which then united the Christians Churches to one the Roman Catholic Church also uniting the languages to one language, The Latin Vulgate. by 600 CE there was only one Bible in only one language. Restricting readership of the Bible to priests approved of by the RCC and all religious interpretations and gospel spreading to them.

Those who translated the scripture into any other language would be punished by death. All other copied of scripture not approved by them were to be destroyed (fortunately thanks to the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi scrools many missing scriptures and other translations of the same scriptures in their pre 500CE state have been found. Giving us fresh translations of once muddled work)

However after 600CE priests were able to rule the religious (and thus governmental and privet) lives of people without question, A priest in a town or village literally held a man or woman's afterlife in his hands because not only was he the only legal religion,he was also the only one who understood it.

Therefore any priest could teach any doctrine without scriptural foundation (Mary being a whore anyone? That one is still believed even though it's been retracted.)

This forced ignorance went on from 500 CE to around 1500CE.

John Wyclif believed people should be able to read the Bible in their own language, later scholars such as Thomas Linacre and John Colet when looking at the Latin bible saw it had become so corrupt it hardly resembled the original texts at all.

In 1611 the King James Bible was created on commission by King James 1 of England

It was translated by 40-50 scholars who had nothing to do directly with the church.
BUT the group was directed by a Committee of Roman Catholic Church Bishops and had to grant their approval before print, therefor they made the command that any translations the scholars made not go against any pre dictated commandments of the church.
(So even if the Bible said "Homosexuality is Okay here's a story about a big happy gay couple" the RCC wouldn't have let them put it in.)
And if they had anything they were unsure of, to follow what the RCC had previously said about that verse instead of looking for their own translation.

The KJB is found to be by most scholars to be the most unreliable and erroneous if not outright incorrect Bible Version to date.


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Also, its not what you think.
One thing, God is God and He's the only one who truely knows what He wants and mean.
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True which is why one should pray and study and work very hard to understand the true meaning of the divine instead of the sugar coated version that comes easy to everyone because they're too lazy to take up proper scholarship to look for God.

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Also, I know He wants us to be happy, but our mean of exsistance is to be there with Him and worship Him. We weren't made to be intimate with our own gender.
Proof? The female and male g-spots would like to disagree
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We're made to intimate with the opposite. Its ment to be reproductive, to replenish the earth.

Proof?
Blessing =/= command,
We've overdone that.
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I don't think you should have kids without some since of marriage either. Otherwise it hurt the kids.

Proof? I know alot of places say Two parent households are always more stable but there hasn't been any proof that the two parents need to be different genders or that parent two has to be an acctual parent. Simply having two (or more) adult figures in the house is better simply because it gives someone time to teach the kids and someone time to earn the income.
lil angelic baby bunny
I'm not a bad Christian for believing what I have been taught all my life...

In a way you are not even a Christian bacause you've made no effort to discover God yourself.
But it does make your teachers partially responsible for your sins.

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who are you to judge whether people are good or bad Christians...

Do bad things that go against Christ, one can make a few assumptions.
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that assumption is sinful, taking Gods place in judgment.
Not really. We are not saying you'll go to hell (unlike many people who come in here and tell us that) we arn't saying you are not perfectly good people and proper Christians in every other light. Just that if you hold false teaching, and know it's false, or refuse to believe otherwise, then you are a Bad Christian.
Read the OP.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar
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ty_ping
The OT is generally the same as the Torah only that the order is different,


"Old Testament" is simply a theological term. "New Testament" comes from the Latin, novum testamentum, or as the English says it, "New Covenant." The Old Testament is sometimes called the Hebrew Bible. It is commonly recognized as the Tanakh. The Torah alone is called Torah, Pentateuch, or Chumash.

ty_ping
some things have been removed, some things added and the Torah is left in it's original Hebrew, the Torah is also only part of a larger collection of religious script known as the Tabernak which Christianity has basically cut out.


I don't know if you're referring to the apocrypha ("hidden books" ). If so, and if I am not mistaken, they were added in the Septuagint. They are considered also as intertestamental books, or deuterocanon. The NJPS lacks these books.

ty_ping
The OT is written mostly in Hebrew with some old Arabic.


Arabic?

ty_ping
The NT is written mostly in Aramaic and Koinic greek.


Actually, the New Testament is mostly written in Greek, and has little Aramaic. You might be referring to the Peshitta, which is an Aramaic version of the New Testament.
Hitorein
First of all calling someone a bad Christian when you don't even know them is wrong. If you're talking about judging, you're doing it right there.


Technically, no, since the statement is framed as rhetorically - if x, then y.

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Also, the whole reason people believe its wrong is because in the Bible says so. If you want scriptures look in Genisis, the chapter that was the BEGINING. At the start He said it was wrong.


The Bible does not declare homosexuality, or homosexual lovemaking, to be sin. Not in Genesis, not anywhere. However, in Genesis Chapter 3, God places the very first curse on humans - and it directly targets the result of heterosexual sexual expression:

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16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you."



If anything, this would argue that heterosexuality is sinful, though necessary, and so people have to be punished for engaging in heterosexual sexual acts. That would also explain the hundreds of passages condemning specific instances of heterosexual sexual intimacy.

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Also, I am a strong Christian, and yet I have many gay friends.


So you say. I don't see it myself. What kind of friend are you, to declare that the loving, beautiful, unitive intimacy your friends experience is something so horrible, they deserve death and eternal torture for it? After all, that is what it means to declare homosexuality a sin. I'd say you are no friend at all to GLBTQ people.

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I believe that God doesn't want us to be stuck up, and they are good people.


And yet, are you not basically exalting your own sexuality over that of others - being 'stuck up' about your innate sexual orientation?

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But being good people is not what gets us into Heaven. Its being saved and asking God to forgive us of our sins. Repenting.


Since being a homosexual is not a sin, and same-sex consensual sex is not either, and neither are an intrinsic impediment to salvation - perhaps you should be pondering whether your contempt for GLBTQ people is an impediment to your salvation, rather than lying about millions of human beings.

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Anyways, my gay friends are good people, most of them. I do make my beliefs clear and as long as they respect that I'll respect theirs, but if I ever have the opportunity to preach to them, with God's gudience I'll do it. Other wise I'll leave them to them.


Wow, what a piece of work. As long as they respect your hatred of their innate self, you will treat them with respect. Funny, I just can't find any Bible verse that condones such cruelty and arrogance.

By the way, you are also wrong about the original languages the texts that comprise the Bible were written in, and wrong about its history.


John Calvin - I remember my father complaining of having been made to learn Aramaic in seminary, just to be able to translate a single sentence "Eloi Eloi lama sabachthani?"

He might have been exagerating slightly for effect.
Hitorein
Angels_Satire
Hitorein
Hehehe, yeaaahhhhh, I got on a little rant there.
I read the first and just wrote what I felt, heheheheh heh, lol.


I don't believe, in the original languages, it ever says that homosexuality is wrong.

Actually, in Genisis, it does.
Its says that 'No man shall lie with a man, for so is an abomination to God. No man shall lie with beast for so is an abomination to God.'
It also says something about a woman getting pregnant by a beast as well, but I'm not sure about that part. I'll have to look it up again.

What gets to me is that in Gods eyes it sin. And sin is sin. Yet this is one on the MAIN things people fuss about. If they're gonna fight about this what about sex before marriage or drinking or other stuff like that.
Its all the same in God's eyes.

No it doesn't.

Please stop pretending you know anything about the Bible until you go and read it. It's obvious you haven't and that you don't. Please stop embarrassing yourself and everyone who has actually bothered to read the damned books.

Now, please.
Shaviv
Hitorein
Angels_Satire
Hitorein
Hehehe, yeaaahhhhh, I got on a little rant there.
I read the first and just wrote what I felt, heheheheh heh, lol.


I don't believe, in the original languages, it ever says that homosexuality is wrong.

Actually, in Genisis, it does.
Its says that 'No man shall lie with a man, for so is an abomination to God. No man shall lie with beast for so is an abomination to God.'
It also says something about a woman getting pregnant by a beast as well, but I'm not sure about that part. I'll have to look it up again.

What gets to me is that in Gods eyes it sin. And sin is sin. Yet this is one on the MAIN things people fuss about. If they're gonna fight about this what about sex before marriage or drinking or other stuff like that.
Its all the same in God's eyes.

No it doesn't.

Please stop pretending you know anything about the Bible until you go and read it. It's obvious you haven't and that you don't. Please stop embarrassing yourself and everyone who has actually bothered to read the damned books.

Now, please.
Um, actually she's right. Partially. The Old Testiment, the Torah, does phrase it as 'No man shall lie with another man' as one of the commandments, I can't remember the number, there's three hundred and sixteen of them.

I'm not sure of the whole beastality part, but I'd say that too is considered a sin.

As for the last part, it all depends. It depends on your religion, your sect, your own personal beliefs and morels, ect. As for this being one of the main things under discussion, it is becuase of people with different, or more accurately people with conflicting, morels and views on how life should be lived have attempted to make it a law, or part of the sexual education of children. It is, of course, much more complicated than that. But it's part of it, and one of the simpler parts at that.

So, on some parts she is correct. And others she is wrong. And for parts your opinions on the matter conflict.
Derian Kain
Um, actually she's right. Partially. The Old Testiment, the Torah, does phrase it as 'No man shall lie with another man' as one of the commandments.


My god!

I didn't know the Torah was written in English. Well. There certainly can't be any sort of conflict, now.
Angels_Satire
Derian Kain
Um, actually she's right. Partially. The Old Testiment, the Torah, does phrase it as 'No man shall lie with another man' as one of the commandments.


My god!

I didn't know the Torah was written in English. Well. There certainly can't be any sort of conflict, now.
Har har, Angels. I apologize for not going to my bookshelf to find my copy of the Torah, searching for the quote, and then figuring out the hebrew for it with my poor gramatical skills in the language.

Edit: And in fact it is, or has been, translated into English.
Derian Kain


Um, actually she's right. Partially. The Old Testiment, the Torah, does phrase it as 'No man shall lie with another man' as one of the commandments, I can't remember the number, there's three hundred and sixteen of them.


No. First off, attributing it to the wrong book is a huge error - one that discredits her entire argument for it indicates that she is only parroting what she has heard somewhere.

Second, your translation is wrong, the phrase you are misquoting comes from the Levitical laws, not the commandments given to Moses, of which there were ten, approximately (different translations have different commands).

Translations are rarely, if ever, exact concept for concept reproductions of the original text. The passages in Leviticus that you and Hitorein are referring to (and yet, without ever actually looking up) - are an excellent case in point.

Both of you have been very lazy about an issue that has incredibly serious repercussions for other people.

http://www.sigmalogobooks.com/SLB_bible_mistranslated_wrong.html

http://epistle.us/hbarticles/leviticus4.html

http://www.jeramyt.org/gay.html#Add2
Wilm9Roget
Derian Kain


Um, actually she's right. Partially. The Old Testiment, the Torah, does phrase it as 'No man shall lie with another man' as one of the commandments, I can't remember the number, there's three hundred and sixteen of them.


No. First off, attributing it to the wrong book is a huge error - one that discredits her entire argument for it indicates that she is only parroting what she has heard somewhere.

Second, your translation is wrong, the phrase you are misquoting comes from the Levitical laws, not the commandments given to Moses, of which there were ten, approximately (different translations have different commands).

Translations are rarely, if ever, exact concept for concept reproductions of the original text. The passages in Leviticus that you and Hitorein are referring to (and yet, without ever actually looking up) - are an excellent case in point.

Both of you have been very lazy about an issue that has incredibly serious repercussions for other people.

http://www.sigmalogobooks.com/SLB_bible_mistranslated_wrong.html

http://epistle.us/hbarticles/leviticus4.html

http://www.jeramyt.org/gay.html#Add2
Truthfully, there are 316. While only ten were brought down on the tablets by Moses, they were only the first ten and some would say the most imporatant ones. And yes, I have been lazy about it. As I said in my second post, I apologize for not going to my copy to find the exact wording both in Hebrew and English. I haven't touched it since my bar Mitzvah except for moving it to clean or to make room for more books.

Edit: Also, the Torah is five books, not one. A common misconcepetion.
Actually the few good translations can be found in most Temples around America, or Israel. Of course things are lost in translation, they always are. But things may also be lost between religions. I'd have to say that your not Jewish by seemingly saying that there are only ten commandments, a Christian belief. I may be wrong from missreading your post.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar
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Derian Kain
Edit: Also, the Torah is five books, not one. A common misconcepetion.


As the commentary goes in regard to the word "light" being mentioned five times in Genesis, "light" is the Torah, for five times is it mentioned. Again, the Torah, though divided into five books, is one, just as the hand possesses five fingers, but is one. These are the sayings of the rabbis. wink
John Calvin
ty_ping
The OT is generally the same as the Torah only that the order is different,


"Old Testament" is simply a theological term. "New Testament" comes from the Latin, novum testamentum, or as the English says it, "New Covenant." The Old Testament is sometimes called the Hebrew Bible. It is commonly recognized as the Tanakh. The Torah alone is called Torah, Pentateuch, or Chumash.

ty_ping
some things have been removed, some things added and the Torah is left in it's original Hebrew, the Torah is also only part of a larger collection of religious script known as the Tabernak which Christianity has basically cut out.


I don't know if you're referring to the apocrypha ("hidden books" ). If so, and if I am not mistaken, they were added in the Septuagint. They are considered also as intertestamental books, or deuterocanon. The NJPS lacks these books.

ty_ping
The OT is written mostly in Hebrew with some old Arabic.


Arabic?
Wasn't it? I could be wrong here.

And I thought some books from the Nevi'im were removed? I'm probably full of it..

ty_ping
The NT is written mostly in Aramaic and Koinic greek.


Actually, the New Testament is mostly written in Greek, and has little Aramaic. You might be referring to the Peshitta, which is an Aramaic version of the New Testament. Possibly. My souces suck. Cite?
John Calvin
ty_ping
some things have been removed, some things added and the Torah is left in it's original Hebrew, the Torah is also only part of a larger collection of religious script known as the Tabernak which Christianity has basically cut out.


I don't know if you're referring to the apocrypha ("hidden books" ). If so, and if I am not mistaken, they were added in the Septuagint. They are considered also as intertestamental books, or deuterocanon. The NJPS lacks these books.
Elaborate please, my source is... well s**t frankly, I'm reading an apologetic book called "What is Christianity" and it's also making the claim that all religions are secretly Christianity at their core. Which at best I find insulting.
Pseudo-Onkelos's avatar
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ty_ping
Wasn't it? I could be wrong here.


My dear ty_ping, should there be any Arabic words, I should have found them in my concordances and lexicons. heart

ty_ping
And I thought some books from the Nevi'im were removed? I'm probably full of it..


The Tanakh that I own is very much like the Protestant Bible. The difference is that the Writings and Prophets are switched around.

ty_ping
Possibly. My souces suck. Cite?


Well, in regard to the New Testament being more Greek than Aramaic, I point you to Mark, who offers a bit of Aramaic words. As for the Peshitta, go here. They only have Matthew through Acts. Some books are missing in the Peshitta that you would find in the Christian Bible.

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