If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Marshal67]

Elf Lord Chiewn

It had to be done. Good to see you in here, Marshal.

Why thank you!

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What, then, must a person keep to in order to be Christian?

Now we know my views are not popular on this sucject. I believe one must believe that Yeshua is the Son of YHVH and all that jazz to be a Christian. I have had this debate with many a people, call it my hangup but I refuse to budge... lol

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And what happens after someone messes up?

If they were saved then they are forgiven.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

So if I follow Yeshua, believe he's the son of YHVH, and whatever "all that jazz" entails (I'm getting funny images of you creating a musically-dependent sect), can I knowingly or willingly mess up? If I tell a little lie, is it okay? If I do anything short of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, is it okay?

[AndromedaM31]

Christian politicians are using religious arguments to establish that homosexuality is an abomination by quoting the bible which says “ If a man lies with male as lies with woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” While this may be their belief system that still does not give Christian politicians the right to ban Gay marriage. This country was founded on religious freedom, where the people are allowed to worship how they see fit. A ground rule, set up from the beginning, states that separation needs to be made between religion and government, so the two shall never meld to become a theocracy

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

AndromedaM31

Christian politicians are using religious arguments to establish that homosexuality is an abomination by quoting the bible which says “ If a man lies with male as lies with woman, both of them have committed an abomination.” While this may be their belief system that still does not give Christian politicians the right to ban Gay marriage. This country was founded on religious freedom, where the people are allowed to worship how they see fit. A ground rule, set up from the beginning, states that separation needs to be made between religion and government, so the two shall never meld to become a theocracy

It's not even biblically correct to cite that verse out of context. Mosaic Law is moot.

And I do agree with your points where the U.S. is concerned.

[Marshal67]

Elf Lord Chiewn

So if I follow Yeshua, believe he's the son of YHVH, and whatever "all that jazz" entails (I'm getting funny images of you creating a musically-dependent sect)

Hmmm, I never thought of...hehe.

Funnily, I left a church because the music was bad...does that make me shallow or just a music major lol

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can I knowingly or willingly mess up?

Yes, I have done it, a lot.

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If I tell a little lie, is it okay?

No but you would be forgiven.

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If I do anything short of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, is it okay?

Not ok but forgiveable.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

Marshal67

Elf Lord Chiewn

So if I follow Yeshua, believe he's the son of YHVH, and whatever "all that jazz" entails (I'm getting funny images of you creating a musically-dependent sect)

Hmmm, I never thought of...hehe.

Funnily, I left a church because the music was bad...does that make me shallow or just a music major lol

Human. The music major just means you can hear the hymns screaming in agony.

Marshal67

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can I knowingly or willingly mess up?

Yes, I have done it, a lot.

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If I tell a little lie, is it okay?

No but you would be forgiven.

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If I do anything short of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, is it okay?

Not ok but forgiveable.

Then I have to wonder: what makes someone not a Christian, if they oppress homosexuals?

[O n y x]

mallory04

O n y x

I think all of those are really good points, and it's really good of you to spread the word around. The thing is, is that there are a lot of people who disagree with homosexuality who aren't even Christian at all, they can't understand how someone can be attracted to the same sex...And then there are many who are Christians who diagree with homosexuality but not necessarily because they are Christian, they just don't like the idea of it, and will probably use Christianity as an excuse. So you can see how there is a high population of people who disagree with gay marriages, and this population may be Christian but that might not be the real reason behind it. Of course, I'm not speaking for everyone.

But anyway, I don't think it's for me or you to judge whether someone is a bad Christian based on a belief like that.

Just because they don't want to "understand" it doesn't give them to right to make it illegal.

No I really think many people just don't understand it, that's where it all comes down to.

I'm sure many people see that gay marriage being illegal in certain places is not right, including many Christians.

If you think something is weird, you're probably not going to want to understand it. That's why I'm thinking that it might not be totally a Christian thing. Because there are people that I know who don't like the idea of homosexuality, they don't understand it, they're still Christian, but that's not the reason behind it, they just don't understand homosexuality, so they don't like it.

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but people who are against gays because of certain scriptures in the Bible doesn't exactly sound right to me...There has to be other reasons behind it.

[capably inept]

Wasn't the OT referenced to as an "ensample" (KJV)?

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Might be a stretch, but I'm curious as to another's input.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

capably inept

Wasn't the OT referenced to as an "ensample" (KJV)?

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Might be a stretch, but I'm curious as to another's input.

Sodom and Gomorrah got pwned because their residents were inhospitable and tried to gang rape some visiting angels.

[capably inept]

Elf Lord Chiewn

capably inept

Wasn't the OT referenced to as an "ensample" (KJV)?

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Might be a stretch, but I'm curious as to another's input.

Sodom and Gomorrah got pwned because their residents were inhospitable and tried to gang rape some visiting angels.

Yes, but my focus is not Sodom and/ or Gomorrha.

[Marshal67]

Elf Lord Chiewn

Human. The music major just means you can hear the hymns screaming in agony.

Why does every hymn have to end in the tonic major? It makes me sad...they have this beautiful hymn in minor, and then at the end they go the relative major! Why!

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Then I have to wonder: what makes someone not a Christian, if they oppress homosexuals?

Not believe in their heart and not confessing with their mouth. That is the only thing to my knowleedge that makes one not a Christian.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

O n y x

I know I'm stating the obvious here, but people who are against gays because of certain scriptures in the Bible doesn't exactly sound right to me...There has to be other reasons behind it.

I think this is an excellent point.

I feel that much of it is due to social constructs and brainwashing.

However, as it conflicts with Yeshua's teachings, the two would seem to be incompatible. It would seem that Christianity is on the losing end of many internal battles, in this regard.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

capably inept

Elf Lord Chiewn

capably inept

Wasn't the OT referenced to as an "ensample" (KJV)?

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Might be a stretch, but I'm curious as to another's input.

Sodom and Gomorrah got pwned because their residents were inhospitable and tried to gang rape some visiting angels.

Yes, but my focus is not Sodom and/ or Gomorrha.

Whoops, misread. Isn't that effectively the same as "example," as in to the Jews in following generations?

[capably inept]

Elf Lord Chiewn

capably inept

Elf Lord Chiewn

capably inept

Wasn't the OT referenced to as an "ensample" (KJV)?

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Might be a stretch, but I'm curious as to another's input.

Sodom and Gomorrah got pwned because their residents were inhospitable and tried to gang rape some visiting angels.

Yes, but my focus is not Sodom and/ or Gomorrha.

Whoops, misread. Isn't that effectively the same as "example," as in to the Jews in following generations?

It does mean 'example'.

Currently I think of it as even an extension to the law, in the effect of being an "ensample". No longer to be followed, but an example.

[Elf Lord Chiewn]

Marshal67

Elf Lord Chiewn

Human. The music major just means you can hear the hymns screaming in agony.

Why does every hymn have to end in the tonic major? It makes me sad...they have this beautiful hymn in minor, and then at the end they go the relative major! Why!

To uplift the masses into being happy to be at church, and to depress them the rest of the time so that they would toss money at the collection plates in the hopes that they might no longer be so depressed by the horrible, horrible twist at the end of every hymn.

Marshal67

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Then I have to wonder: what makes someone not a Christian, if they oppress homosexuals?

Not believe in their heart and not confessing with their mouth. That is the only thing to my knowleedge that makes one not a Christian.

That Yeshua is the Son of God? Okay, so what about people who believe Yeshua is the Son of God but completely fail to follow his teachings?