If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[PoeticVengeance]

ty_ping

Ad.min can suck my balls

Not Poe, someone else

Have you heard of a fallacy called Appeal to Tradition

Appeals to Tradition only apply when circumstances change, or the foundation of the Tradition was false. If the premise of the Tradition still holds true, it isn't fallacious.

Likewise, Appeals to authority aren't fallacious unless the authority is unqualified.

That said, appeal to Tradition is more appeal to Authority than anything.

Wow, new account already or did you just change the name to see how fast you can get banned?

I thought you could get an IP ban around here? Suddenly I'm not terribly concerned about what will happen if I troll

I totally called it too.

I knew it was him.

^^

[PoeticVengeance]

linaloki

Ad.min can suck my balls

Aino Ailill

Paul, in this letter, referred to himself in the first person singular. Why should it be assumed that this is the will of the Lord?

Because it's in the canonized Bible.

I would make the point that just because the Catholic Church put it in the Bible doesn't make it God's Word, but you would say "Yes it does!" and never listen, thusly it's moot.

I will point out, however, that, as someone mentioned... Your nuns. Nuns go against that verse. Meaning... If you agree with that verse, you disagree with nuns... Meaning you disagree with your system of religion... My my, what a dilemma.

Also, we look at that verse's context... He keeps saying I. I do not permit this, I do not permit that... He is referring to how he wanted the church he was personally preaching at to be run.

Scholastic, can you establish that just because its God's Word its also God's Law?

After all, if everything I said was holy word and truth, and I mentioned how my shoes hurt my feet, does that make it Holy Law that shoes must hurt feet?

If its in the Canonized Bible, and its therefore God's Word, who's to say God isn't merely recounting Paul's very dim view of women teaching?

Who says God himself is making this assessment of women? After all, it is Paul speaking there.

[PoeticVengeance]

The Melancholy Of Haruhi

Masturbating_Rot_Crow

Aino Ailill

Ad.min can suck my balls

Priest of Merwynism

that only applies to catholicism in general and perhaps some denominations of protestantism.
it varies from denomination to denomionation.

however, i personally think it's an illegitimate practice.
there is biblical evidence of female teachers, such as the apostle thecla.

Any denomination that allows a woman anything is a fluffy bunny Christian.

1 Timothy 2:11

Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Paul, in this letter, referred to himself in the first person singular. Why should it be assumed that this is the will of the Lord?

Paul is more filler-bible at best. No one knows how much of Paul is even really Paul, so it could be the word of anyone. Not a very good backing.

filler-bible? he practicly invented the actual religion of christianity and you call him filler-bible?
yeah, the bill of rights they're filler-constitution.
filler-constitution.

Your name is a good show, but you need to stop attaching so much ridiculous importance to Paul's material.

A lot of what he wrote were things not relevant to Jesus' message and God's law, but were simple bits of advice and philosophical musings he himself was going over.

They're important yes, but shouldn't be used to determine moral law unless you can establish YHWH wants them to be moral law.

[PoeticVengeance]

Ad.min can suck my balls

ty_ping

Wow, new account already or did you just change the name to see how fast you can get banned?

No, the other account got banned by some unnamed Admin. I made a thread entitled "Should Blasphemy be considered slander/libel" and it got deleted for "Trolling." In protest, I made another thread called, "ADMIN, ******** YOU!" and got banned. Thus the current name and siggy. smile

You have extraordinarily bad judgement Scholastic.

Admittedly I was much the same in my JINYS past as Fires, but still. You'd think you'd at least try not to boost your number of banned accounts to 200+.

[PoeticVengeance]

Ad.min can suck my balls

Striga

But I thought you said women aren't supposed to teach according to the bible.

The Catholic Church is putting women into teaching positions.

Either you are wrong, or they are wrong here.

Dude, you are commiting the fallacy of accident, man.

So the church should remove these women from the teaching positions, right?

Is it unaware of these women in these positions?

[PoeticVengeance]

Ad.min can suck my balls

linaloki

For the record. I'd like you to see the bolded parts.

A) These clearly say that a woman in church should NOT teach. Nuns, being female, that teach are obviously breaking this Paulian command.

Since when do nuns teach in a church?

I've seen instances.

However that can be explained away by accidental incidents.


Its the women being silent part that is the biggest issue.

[the_giggle_faerie]

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you? you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true. this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays. supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them. the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you? you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true. this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays. supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them. the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

Not really. Because he's not "judging" them as you seem to think. The Thread tittle more refers to the fact that if one is against homosexuality for "Biblical" reasons, then they are in fact a Bad(poor) christian.

[PoeticVengeance]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you?

Actually a Christian is called upon by God to make sure that other Christians are following God's Word.

But what about people like me?

The non-Christians?

I can judge them all I want.

Quote:

you're discriminating against a group of people

False. Discrimination is in action.

He is merely telling them what they are doing wrong. The closest parallel would be predjudice, but since this view is very rationally supportable, it can't even be called that.

Quote:

because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true.

Which goes fundamentally against their religion.

Quote:

this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays. supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them.

You have no reason to disagree with them.

You are violating the tenets of your religion.

That is blasphemy. You are blaspheming. Therefore you suck at being Christian.

Quote:

the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

So? I don't care about the judgement point.

You are blaspheming, and heavily.

[TrunkstheSlayer]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you? you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true. this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays. supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them. the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

And Elf discriminated how?
He denied nobody any rights. Merely pointed something out.
Try again, and this time? Try reading

[Marshal67]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you?

No he is not. He is actually correct in what he says. This is coming from a Christian, and his friend.

Quote:

you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true.

To bad if you believe that is true you are not in line with what the Bible says.

Quote:

this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays.

Except, he is correct in what he is saying and Christians, as a majority, are incorrect.

Quote:

supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them.

Did you read the entire OP? Christians should not disagree with them.

Quote:

the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

Must I repeat myself again... stare

[ty_ping]

PoeticVengeance

Ad.min can suck my balls

Priest of Merwynism

that only applies to catholicism in general and perhaps some denominations of protestantism.
it varies from denomination to denomionation.

however, i personally think it's an illegitimate practice.
there is biblical evidence of female teachers, such as the apostle thecla.

Any denomination that allows a woman anything is a fluffy bunny Christian.

1 Timothy 2:11

Let the woman learn in silence, with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to use authority over the man: but to be in silence.

Hmmmm a self referring pronoun there.

Are you sure Paul is not merely referring to a personal preference instead of dictating religious law?

Readng Timothy from the first chapter it does lean that he's just talking on a personal level to this fellow named Timothy who is either literally or figurativly Pauls son. In either respect he's supposed to be starting up a new Church and these are Pauls instuctions for it. If they're God sactioned or not is debateable since he says through it "And I say..." not "And the Lord says"
All cross referances to women staying silent once again comes in for form of "And I say" not "And the Lord says"

[ty_ping]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you?

Yea but He's not Christian nor is he advocation they be denied rights based on their opinion.

Quote:

you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true.

Okay in a way I want to point out "But their idea is wrong" but then you can counter with "Well so is homosexuality" however we can show biblically they are incorrect in their belief whereas homosexuality isn't a belief or a theory or a religion which can be changed but a sexual disposition which weather it is chosen subconciously or genetically in either regard they CAN'T change their mind whereas a Christian opinion that is biblically incorrect can be.

Quote:

this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays.

Only the Christian dissagreeing results in either a denyal of rights or an eternity in a non existant hell or forces Homosexuals away from the Church and from Christ because of the bigotry and general jackassary of the majority of the believers.

Quote:

supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them. the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

There is a differance between disagreeing, and judging.
You like broccoli
I don't,
Therefore we disagree on liking broccoli. I don't think broccoli is wrong, just not right for me. Theres nothing wrong with YOU liking broccoli, or anyone else liking it in fact. I just have different tastes is all.

Thats dissagreeing.

You think 2+2=10
I think it's 4
Now we are disagreeing but I can prove you wrong, now once again thats not judgement because I'm just making an observation, like the sky is blue. You can belive the answer is 10 all you want it doesn't make you right. However I'm not deeming myself as better or worthy of more rights then you because you think that way.

Juding however is thinking that something is wrong because you don't think or feel that way. Especially if you can't prove it's wrong and you want to deny them smething due to that opinion.

Like Gay marrage being denied because people THINK it's wrong. Whereas in nature it's fine, biologically it's not a choice and biblically there's nothing wrong with it.

[ElvenGoddessAlysianna]

Thought this article would add something to this topic.
In context:
Love Loss
And for those who are too lazy and/or wary of clicking links in posts, here's the article in full. ( but out of context)

Steve Arney for Pantagraph.com

Love Loss
At a Methodist church in Normal the other night, about 30 people gathered to discuss the topic "Making a case for same-sex marriage: a Christian perspective."

Most people were either from the GLBT community (gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender) or sympathetic to them.

But a handful of Christians, sitting together and inclined to take the Bible at its literal word, were unconvinced of the case being made for same-sex marriage.

One among this group stated that her Bible-rooted belief is that homosexuality is a sin.

"That doesn't mean I'm unloving. That seems to be the voice that's coming out. I feel attacked by that," she said.

Soon after, a woman at the meeting, attending with her female life partner, responded. The so-called love of fundamentalist Christianity calls her a sinner, tells her she shouldn't be in certain jobs, such as school teacher, and rejects her very essence.

"'I love you but I'm going to limit you.' It comes across as disingenuous," said the woman.

Another among the handful replied, resentful at a perceived labeling, "You added that to us."

Churches and homosexual communities continue to be, in large part, widely divided, with Tuesday providing illumination.

Voters in seven states approved constitutional amendments defining marriage as, exclusively, a union between a man and a woman. One state, Arizona, voted against a marriage amendment; it is the only one in the nation ever to do so. Twenty states voted for marriage amendments in prior elections.

The score is 27-1, and in each case the ballot measures have been driven largely by conservative Protestants and Catholics.

The polarization involves something deeper still -- more personal and more visceral. And it has to do with love and the perception that Christians hate.

Michael Pullin helped organize the event and held it at his church, First United Methodist Church in Normal. He later said he was both moved in sensing the hurt that a predominantly Christian nation has inflicted on gays but also in the genuine hurt felt by that handful of Christians in attendance.

It is a powerful insult indeed to tell Christians they have broken a commandment that Jesus held dearly -- to love your neighbor as yourself.

So polarized has this nation become during the gay-rights movement and the marriage-amendment movement that to gays, generally, "Christianity" has become synonymous with vitriolic condemnations, said the Rev. Jennifer Kottler who moderated Normal's discussion.

She is deputy director of the Chicago-based Protestants for the Common Good, a social-justice group in favor of same-sex marriage. She is ordained in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ).

Still, GLBT strangers said they instinctively recoil when they see her in her clerical collar. "The first reaction is almost a fear. It's, 'What are you going to say to me?'"

A reaction from her best friend, a lesbian, when Kottler announced she was entering seminary: "She burst into tears. I said, 'What's wrong?' She said, 'This means you're not going to love us anymore.' That's how deep the pain goes."

The forum in Normal was a civilized discourse, and therein contained a glimmer that the nation has the potential for at least some thawing, said Pullin.

"Invariably, once we get to know people who are not like us, I think it opens our hearts," said Pullin. "I have to hope so. My experience is that it can."

[Half Baked SF]

Capt. Anne Bonny

excuse me, hate to burst your bubble, elf lord...but you're judging the christian people as a whole aren't you? you're discriminating against a group of people because of the way that they are and an idea they have that they believe is true. this is essentially the same as what you think christians are doing to gays. supposedly, if we disagree with them, we are judging them. the reason we "judge" them is because of the way they are and the idea they have, according to you. so you're contradicting yourself on that point.

Boys and girls, this is why angsty middle schoolers should not be allowed access to Gaia, or at least not Extended Discussion or its subforums.