If you are against gay marriage, you are a bad Christian.

[Half Baked SF]

Servus Dei

What makes homosexual marriage immoral and wrong? The Catholic Faith teaches that marriages can only be heterosexual.

It's a pity Catholicism doesn't hold a monopoly on legal marriage.

[Ananel]

Servus Dei

Ananel

Repeats: There is a distinction between spiritual milk and meat/bread, as taught in Hebrews. Knowledge good for salvation is not full understanding. Paul and others are quite explicit on this.

I still have no idea what you are talking about.

When I spoke kind words that the young lady earlier was wrong, but not a bad Christian because of her limited understanding, you said that you expected nothing less of me as a heretic and implied a need to justify it. I referenced Hebrews as indicative of the difference between teachings for salvation and teachings for full understanding (milk v. meat/bread).

Servus Dei

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I'll simplify the other: The "Be fruitful and multiply" is a specific blessing to two individuals, not the general population. To say otherwise is grammatically incorrect, and what God says in the Bible is more important than 'doctrinal integrity.'

He also says that to various other things, for example the birds, the beasts, etc, particularly in the first story of creation. I would presume he gave the command to humanity in general, not particularly to any one person.

It is not an imperative of command. No standard text on the language refers to it as an imperative of command. Furthermore, if it is an imperative of command, then it is a condemnation of those born impotent, especially those who know it.

Rather, it is an imperative of wish, a blessing. No ordinance. To imply otherwise does not fit the rest of scripture, especially passages such as 1 Corinthians 7, wherein celibacy is upheld. I find your position both specious and inappropriate, especially given the fact that you have populations of animals and two humans, and to adam and eve, he speaks directly, creates directly and communes in a fashion unique from that of the animals.

[Servus Dei]

linaloki

The Catholic faith also tells you that you can't pray directly to God.

Really? Show me said canon.

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And used to tell you, and might still, that unless you confessed ALL of your sins to a priest before you died, you would be sent to Purgatory. AND it claims that some sins are worse than others in God's eyes.

They never taught that. If you don't confess your [mortal] sins, nor at least commit an act of perfect contrition, you in fact go to Hell, not purgatory.

Purgatory is a whole nother subject entirely.

That said, the Bible says that some sins are worse than others. 1 John 5:16

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Actually, he is.

No, he isn't.

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I left the Catholic Church.

Say "Hi!" to Satan for me.

[Servus Dei]

Ananel

When I spoke kind words that the young lady earlier was wrong, but not a bad Christian because of her limited understanding, you said that you expected nothing less of me as a heretic and implied a need to justify it. I referenced Hebrews as indicative of the difference between teachings for salvation and teachings for full understanding (milk v. meat/bread).

Oh, I see what you are saying. But you are still wrong, though. The particular moral teaching is fairly important.

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It is not an imperative of command. No standard text on the language refers to it as an imperative of command. Furthermore, if it is an imperative of command, then it is a condemnation of those born impotent, especially those who know it.

Rather, it is an imperative of wish, a blessing. No ordinance. To imply otherwise does not fit the rest of scripture, especially passages such as 1 Corinthians 7, wherein celibacy is upheld. I find your position both specious and inappropriate, especially given the fact that you have populations of animals and two humans, and to adam and eve, he speaks directly, creates directly and communes in a fashion unique from that of the animals.

Either way, I am still right. biggrin

[Pseudo-Onkelos]

tylara67

People who hate oil companies don't usually work for oil companies,

I like the fact that you used the word "usually." But, there's a problem. You're saying that people who hate oil companies don't usually work for oil companies. Unless one is really in need for a job, I don't see any other reason why. Of course, I'm sure they enjoy their share of oil. Do you see the problem? You mention "oil company" twice, but you don't say, "People who hate oil, hate oil companies," or "People who hate oil companies, hate oil."

tylara67

people who hate guns don't usually own gun shops,

But they might want to work at Big 5 simply for the pay. Do you see the problem? One does not need to like or dislike something in order for them to work somewhere. One might advocate this or that, and that's why they work there, while another may not advocate this or that, but simply work there for other reasons.

tylara67

and pro-lifers don't generally work at abortion clinics.

No doubt.

[Servus Dei]

Toga! Toga!

It's a pity Catholicism doesn't hold a monopoly on legal marriage.

Validity supercedes licitness.

[Ananel]

Servus Dei

No, he isn't.

He is correct. I am Lutheran.

Servus Dei

Quote:

I left the Catholic Church.

Say "Hi!" to Satan for me.

...spare the idiot barbs. They're what get you banned regularly.

[Half Baked SF]

Servus Dei

Toga! Toga!

It's a pity Catholicism doesn't hold a monopoly on legal marriage.

Validity supercedes licitness.

Your religion didn't even hold the first marriages. Every civilization had some form of marriage rite. What makes you so special?

[PoeticVengeance]

Servus Dei

linaloki

Why is homosexual marriage immoral and wrong?

What makes homosexual marriage immoral and wrong? The Catholic Faith teaches that marriages can only be heterosexual.

The Catholic faith deviates from the Scriptures to an extreme.

I'm not horribly worried about what Catholicism thinks as its barely Christian.

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And what makes Ananel a heretic?

He isn't a Catholic.

That is only heresy to the Catholic Church.

Considering the Catholic Church is essentially practicing blasphemy, I don't think Ananel needs to worry.

[Ananel]

Servus Dei

Oh, I see what you are saying. But you are still wrong, though. The particular moral teaching is fairly important.

I didn't say that it wasn't important. I said she wasn't a bad Christian. Anyone who claims to understand all of the moral teachings of Christ fully lies, just as much as anyone who claims to be without sin is a liar and deceives themselves, as Peter tells us.

Servus Dei

Either way, I am still right. biggrin

...That's barely worth dignifying with a response. It remains that your comprehension of the grammar is dead wrong, results in abhorrent and unbiblical teachings in contradiction to 1 Corinthians 7 and other passages and poorly reflects the purpose of the text.

Simply saying "either way, I'm still right" is less of a defence than "Papa says I'm right," and that was horsehockey too.

[Servus Dei]

Toga! Toga!

Your religion didn't even hold the first marriages.

According to my (and several other religions), the first marriage was ordained by God for one man and one woman.

So sure, my religion in particular didn't hold the first marriage. However, I believe that my religion was instituted by the same God Who ordained that first marriage, and is in the constant prescence and guidance of that God.

[linaloki]

Servus Dei

linaloki

The Catholic faith also tells you that you can't pray directly to God.

Really? Show me said canon.

All prayers go to the Saints, the Holy Mother, or the priest. Only the Lord's Prayer is a direct prayer, and means as much to most people as the Pledge does to high schoolers.

Servus Dei

Quote:

And used to tell you, and might still, that unless you confessed ALL of your sins to a priest before you died, you would be sent to Purgatory. AND it claims that some sins are worse than others in God's eyes.

They never taught that. If you don't confess your [mortal] sins, nor at least commit an act of perfect contrition, you in fact go to Hell, not purgatory.

Purgatory is a whole nother subject entirely.

That said, the Bible says that some sins are worse than others. 1 John 5:16

Oh? So if you don't do Last Rites, you go to hell, hm? I'm talking you're non-"Mortal" sins. The only "mortal" sin is not accepting Christ's gift.

And your verse says one sin. The Church says 3. Hm... Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the only sin specifically mentioned as a condemning sin in the Bible.

Servus Dei

Quote:

Actually, he is.

No, he isn't.

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I left the Catholic Church.

Say "Hi!" to Satan for me.

Hi!

Oh, you mean the other guy?

Funny thing... If only Catholics can go to heaven... Then why did Jesus offer his gift to all? And how did that theif manage getting into heaven?

[Oblivious Sage]

John Calvin

tylara67

People who hate oil companies don't usually work for oil companies,

I like the fact that you used the word "usually." But, there's a problem. You're saying that people who hate oil companies don't usually work for oil companies. Unless one is really in need for a job, I don't see any other reason why. Of course, I'm sure they enjoy their share of oil. Do you see the problem? You mention "oil company" twice, but you don't say, "People who hate oil, hate oil companies," or "People who hate oil companies, hate oil."

Wait, what? I didn't say anything about oil. The people who don't like oil companies (they think they're profiteering bastards, or control the government, or whatever) generally don't deign to work for oil companies. Oh well, perhaps that one wasn't such a good example.

John Calvin

tylara67

people who hate guns don't usually own gun shops,

But they might want to work at Big 5 simply for the pay. Do you see the problem? One does not need to like or dislike something in order for them to work somewhere. One might advocate this or that, and that's why they work there, while another may not advocate this or that, but simply work there for other reasons.

I'm not familiar with Big 5, so I'm going to assume it's a large store that sells a wide variety of things. My point is not that people who work for an establishment necessarily advocate the focus or deeds of that establishment, but rather that they generally don't condemn them (or if they do, it's as a result of working there and they usually dont continue working there for long). Someone who supports extreme gun legislation might work at a store like Academy that sells guns along with a large number of other items, but they would probably consider it a violation of their principles to work for a shop that just sold guns, ammo, and related accessories.

John Calvin

tylara67

and pro-lifers don't generally work at abortion clinics.

No doubt.

This was the example that best said what I wanted to say.

[Servus Dei]

PoeticVengeance

The Catholic faith deviates from the Scriptures to an extreme.

Prove that.

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That is only heresy to the Catholic Church.

That's like saying, "Why should we care what Adam thinks about selling the house, after all, it ONLY belongs to Adam?"

[Marshal67]

linaloki

Funny thing... If only Catholics can go to heaven... Then why did Jesus offer his gift to all? And how did that theif manage getting into heaven?

Oh because Christ wanted us to be bigoted. Everyone must think the same, free thinking is of the devil!