Edward Cullen - Abusive Boyfriend (Eclipse SPOILERS)

Your opinion?

I knew it all along.	61.8%	[ 1576 ]
Good points, but I'm not convinced.	15.4%	[ 393 ]
You're wrong, and I will post my rebuttal.	11.5%	[ 293 ]
But it's True Love!	11.4%	[ 290 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2552 ]

[doometh]

Fiction is to be enjoyed. Why must people over-analyze everything and destroy the whole point of a fiction novel?

I don't understand why people go to such lengths to destroy a work of fiction. Sure, I understand that you may not like it, but why destroy it for the rest of us?

Your arguement is strong, but I don't agree with it.

#1: Edward is not jealous of Jacob. Jacob is a werewolf: plain and simple. You saw poor Emily; because Sam Uley lost control of himself one time, he completely destroyed Emily's face. Jacob could loose control any time and injure Bella. Though the same goes for Edward, he takes precautionary measures by making sure he feeds before meeting with her. For example, the day before he went to the Meadow with Bella, Edward and Alice went hunting. Jacob can't make any attempt to make Bella safer; if he looses control, he looses control.

#2: When Bella came to Forks High School on her first day, she didn't try very hard to make friends in the first place. She didn't even know Edward that first week, I believe it is, and she didn't make any attempt to get closer to her friends than she already was. (SPOILER) Besides, if you've read the first chapter of Eclipse, Charlie will only take Bella off of groundage if she agrees to spend more time with her friends. Also, according to that first chapter, Angela Weber and Ben Cheney, as well as Mike Newton, to some extent, didn't isolate away from Bella. (/SPOILER)

#3 Edward attempts suicide because he thought Bella killed herself first. If I recall correctly, Bella had gone cliff-diving. Alice had seen a vision of her jumping, but no vision of Jacob resuing her. Rosalie found out and called Edward, telling him Bella killed herself in an attempt to bring him home (check Stephenie's website for that portion of the novel, as told by Edward himself). That didn't work; it actually had the opposite effect. Edward went to Italy to convince the Volturi to kill him.

#4: Edward doesn't encourage Bella to lie; she lies because she chooses to. She created the Seattle story simply because she didn't want to go to the dance. She finally decided she was really going to go to get some books, clothes, et cetra. She told Jessica she and Edward were going to Seattle together. Now, I will admit that once they changed their plans, Bella did lie to Charlie about going with Edward, but only because she chose to lie; Edward wanted her to tell the truth. Oh, you also said that he says the whole thing about bringing her back alive; it's him trying to convice her to tell someone where she is, whereas she does not listen.

#5: At the Meadow, Edward demonstrates his vampiric abilities to Bella. That's the only time she is afraid of him, if I do recall. And, as I said above, he takes precautionary measures to feed before being around Bella for long periods of time, like at the Meadow.

#6: Edward doesn't make Bella's decisions for her. The whole prom thing wasn't his fault; if I am correct (and I probably am, seeing as I read the book for the third time last night), Charlie was in on the prom thing as well. Her whole birthday thing -- she didn't ask gifts from anyone, but Charlie and Renée got her something, too. The whole reason for celebrating her birthday because the last birthday the Cullens celebrated was Emmett's, and it was... a really long time ago, in 1935, to be exact. All they wanted to do was have a little fun with this trival human tradition that they haven't celebrated in over eighty years.

The whole James thing -- everyone was taking steps to ensure Bella's safety. They wanted to get her away from James as soon as possible. If they had not, James would probably have gotten at her. Now, which would be worse? Anyway, Edward was acting irrationally, not remembering Charlie, but once Alice and Emmett realize what Bella's trying to get at, they try to make him stop as well, but he won't listen until they manage to convince him.

When Edward wants to run with Bella on his back, Bella's just being difficult. It's just like when she rides in his car; the ride is easier when she doesn't look until it's over. He tries to convince her of that, but she's just being stubborn. Sure, he manipulated her, but how else were they supposed to get to the clearing? The story would never progress if they just walked.

#7: Yes, Edward watches Bella while she sleeps, but when she does learn about it, she makes no attempt to stop him from staying over. In fact, she encourages it.


There. You have my two cents. I am a fan who likes to think, but the way; if I didn't I wouldn't have gone through the book to rebut your accusations.

8/7/07 is when Eclipse comes out, and it's my birthday. ^^

[Demons_and_Angels]

Thank you doometh!!!! That was an awesome arguement. Thank you for sticking up for the fans who have every right to like the book.

[Nesting Comments]

Honestly, I like Edward and I'm not a big fan of the whole "abusive boyfriend" arguement. Not only does it make Edward seem bad (which I don't think he is), but it also fails to take into account Bella's actions. And let's face it, she has some serious issues too (but I still love her).

That being said, you do have some good points. I thought Edward was a jerk in New Moon. The whole thing with Jacob was awful. Even if he was worried about Bella's safety, he should have still given Jacob a chance. However, with the whole suicide thing, yes it's bad that he was going to kill himself, but it wasn't a way of controlling Bella. He honestly thought she had died. Plus, he did leave her for a while, so I think that helps to prove that he wasn't trying to control her.

And doometh, five extra credit points for an excellent rebuttle. xd

[doometh]

YUS!

WITH THOSE FIVE
EXTRA CREDIT POINTS,
I CAN FINALLY PASS
MY SCIENCE CLASS!
.:party!:.

Lol, just kidding.

Thank you; it took quite a while to type up. I actually had to go get my Twilight book; I don't have my New Moon: Special Edition because my friend is borrowing it for the weekend, so I did that all from memory... x.x;

[Demons_and_Angels]

doometh

YUS!

WITH THOSE FIVE
EXTRA CREDIT POINTS,
I CAN FINALLY PASS
MY SCIENCE CLASS!
.:party!:.

Lol, just kidding.

Thank you; it took quite a while to type up. I actually had to go get my Twilight book; I don't have my New Moon: Special Edition because my friend is borrowing it for the weekend, so I did that all from memory... x.x;

Cool!!! And it's really true so good for pointing that out!!!!

[Minari]

I'll post my rebuttal in a moment biggrin But first: Danke schoen for writing an intelligent, non-flamatory arugemnt and second; have you read the rest of the thread? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I've disproved most of those points already confused

[F U S H i G i P i N A Y]

While I haven't read the whole thread yet, I love the points both Aldorel and doometh are making. As for me, I'll only comment on the points I agree and disagree strongest.

AGREE:
I've said this before and I have no idea how many times I'll say it again, but the whole issue of Edward and Jacob is getting ridiculous. Edward's holding Bella back from seeing her best friend. Sure, Edward said thank you to him for protecting Bella while he was away, but for those who've read first chapter of Eclipse, I saw it getting out of hand. I doubt Bella can sneak a visit to La Push with a super-hearing, scent-tracking, mind-reading boyfriend like Edward. She'd barely get two miles there before he would jump in the truck, lift her off the driver's side, and make a U-turn.

DISAGREE:
The whole Edward-made-Bella-lie-to-Charlie thing. To make this post shorter, I'll just say I agree with doometh; he wanted Bella to tell the truth to Charlie. I don't think he had an ulterior motive of reverse psychology or anything. It was pretty much all Bella's choosing.

[Shigures Editor]

Wow. Kudos to you, Aldorel. I haven't, nor has anyone else, I believe, looked at Edward and Bella's relationship that way. It really makes me lose a good amount of respect towards Edward. I really think Stephenie Meyer gave him too many powers to use to his advantage - the perfect tools for abuse.

Again, claps for you.

[Minari]

doometh

Fiction is to be enjoyed. Why must people over-analyze everything and destroy the whole point of a fiction novel?

I enjoy thinking about things, thus I am enjoying it. Once again, I do not understand the aversion to using the brain.

Quote:

I don't understand why people go to such lengths to destroy a work of fiction. Sure, I understand that you may not like it, but why destroy it for the rest of us?

If you fear that we'll destroy it for the rest of you, you must know we got some things right. Now, I'm going to use as drastically exaggerated example to get this point across; I do not, by any means, think liking Twilight is equavilent to murderXD But here. Picture a murderer. Some primative guy who doesn't follow our moral code. This dude goes around killing people, and doesn't think anything of it. Should I sit by and let him because I don't want to ruin his fun? No! I'm damn well going to show him, by logic and the like, that what he's doing is wrong. It's a bit like that.

Quote:

#1: Edward is not jealous of Jacob. Jacob is a werewolf: plain and simple.

Can't comment on the New Moon aspect, sorry. However, that doesn't explain why Edward felt the need to shoo Jacob away at the prom, when he was doing no harm and was no werewolf.

Quote:

#2: When Bella came to Forks High School on her first day, she didn't try very hard to make friends in the first place. She didn't even know Edward that first week, I believe it is, and she didn't make any attempt to get closer to her friends than she already was.

The fact that Edward encourages this behavior, and even furthers the distance is still not good. If she didn't have him there pushing him away, I'm sure they would have gotten closer.

And I won't comment on the Spoiler/whitetext, because it refers to Eclipse which A) I have not read, and B) doesn't affect the events of the previous books in the slightest.

Quote:

#3 Edward attempts suicide because he thought Bella killed herself first.

Everyone seems to have forgotten the events in the end of Twilight, during which Edward tells Bells that he was trying to find ways of killing himself in case she died. He made it very clear that that was a possible consequence. Control tactic.

Quote:

#4: Edward doesn't encourage Bella to lie; she lies because she chooses to.

Read the damned rebuttals! Meaning to or not, he uses reverse psychology to stop her from telling Charlie! She apparently loves this guy more than she loves herself, so when it sounded like there was a possibility of him getting hurt if someone knew where he was, she made sure they didn't! Had he just said, “tell Charlie in case [any other reason!]” she might have, and if she didn't it would have been solely her fault.

Quote:

#5: At the Meadow, Edward demonstrates his vampiric abilities to Bella. That's the only time she is afraid of him, if I do recall. And, as I said above, he takes precautionary measures to feed before being around Bella for long periods of time, like at the Meadow.

Just because she's not afraid, doesn't mean he isn't trying to scare her. Several times he's said something along the lines of, “I can eat you, get away from me!,” “I'm a monster!,” or “I could break you so easily right now.” Sounds like scare-tactics to me.

Quote:

#6: Edward doesn't make Bella's decisions for her. The whole prom thing wasn't his fault; if I am correct (and I probably am, seeing as I read the book for the third time last night), Charlie was in on the prom thing as well. Her whole birthday thing -- she didn't ask gifts from anyone, but Charlie and Renée got her something, too.

Who cares if Charlie was in on it? Edward could've just been like, “no.” Because good boyfriends don't force their girlfriends to proms they don't want to go too biggrin

Quote:

The whole reason for celebrating her birthday because the last birthday the Cullens celebrated was Emmett's, and it was... a really long time ago, in 1935, to be exact. All they wanted to do was have a little fun with this trival human tradition that they haven't celebrated in over eighty years.

Then why don't they just celebrate their own birthdays? Make 'em up if they've forgotten. Whatever! Forcing someone to have a party that she doesn't want just so they can have some fun? Oh yeah, that's really what good relationships are built on.

Quote:

The whole James thing -- everyone was taking steps to ensure Bella's safety. They wanted to get her away from James as soon as possible. If they had not, James would probably have gotten at her. Now, which would be worse? Anyway, Edward was acting irrationally, not remembering Charlie, but once Alice and Emmett realize what Bella's trying to get at, they try to make him stop as well, but he won't listen until they manage to convince him.

I'm sorry, but your just not allowed to abuse your girlfriend. The fact that he would listen to Alice and Emmett about her life, but wouldn't listen to her, is repulsive. She should have broken up with him right there.

Quote:

When Edward wants to run with Bella on his back, Bella's just being difficult. It's just like when she rides in his car; the ride is easier when she doesn't look until it's over. He tries to convince her of that, but she's just being stubborn. Sure, he manipulated her, but how else were they supposed to get to the clearing? The story would never progress if they just walked.

What, it's okay to manipulate your girlfriend so long as it moves the story along? Why couldn't she just say “they walked to the clearing.” and then pick up from there? Who cares if Bella's being difficult? That's like saying, “damn you, I hate the fact that you don't eat meat so I'm going to seduce you into it!” to a strict vegetarian. He doesn't respect that she doesn't want to do it. He doesn't respect her. He is a bad boyfriend.

Quote:

#7: Yes, Edward watches Bella while she sleeps, but when she does learn about it, she makes no attempt to stop him from staying over. In fact, she encourages it.

I have rebutted this a thousand times! He watched her before he knew she was okay with it, boy for he was even her boyfriend! That is invasion of her privacy like woah! Not a cool thing.

And points to anyone who actually reads all thatXD

[F U S H i G i P i N A Y]

Woot --- points for Fushi domokun

Minari

Quote:

#6: Edward doesn't make Bella's decisions for her. The whole prom thing wasn't his fault; if I am correct (and I probably am, seeing as I read the book for the third time last night), Charlie was in on the prom thing as well. Her whole birthday thing -- she didn't ask gifts from anyone, but Charlie and Renée got her something, too.

Who cares if Charlie was in on it? Edward could've just been like, “no.” Because good boyfriends don't force their girlfriends to proms they don't want to go too biggrin

True, but in the end she was glad she came. I mean, if your boyfriend gave into your every wish and want, I'd kind of see that as a boring relationship. I know where you're coming from, but there's a line between abuse through force or what Edward was trying to do, which was lighten Bella up for once. If you always got what you want, you wouldn't really be open to taking a lot of risks of things you wouldn't usually agree to.

Minari

Quote:

The whole reason for celebrating her birthday because the last birthday the Cullens celebrated was Emmett's, and it was... a really long time ago, in 1935, to be exact. All they wanted to do was have a little fun with this trival human tradition that they haven't celebrated in over eighty years.

Then why don't they just celebrate their own birthdays? Make 'em up if they've forgotten. Whatever! Forcing someone to have a party that she doesn't want just so they can have some fun? Oh yeah, that's really what good relationships are built on.

For this one, I actually don't agree the first. For doometh, yes, Edward did say they hadn't celebrated a birthday since Emmett's, but I don't think that's the sole reason why they held the party. Personally, I saw the Cullens as trying to get Bella more enthused about her own birthday. They might've seen her as this grumpy gus (did I really just say that?) who sulks about things that are usually seen as enjoyable. For Minari, I see what you mean agree. If they want to celebrate a birthday, they are fully free to hold parties for themselves.

[Pink Colored Pencil]

Your are using human relationship facts Honey let me tell you something Edward anit human. So let me tell you a thing or two about debating. Never give your opponent a chance to rebuttal.
I think you have never even read the books. Abusive no. There is only one jealous person in the whole book and that is Jacob. Now lets recall Jacob likes Bella, Bella does not like Jacob like that, therefore making Jacob mad (werewolf thing about it) and making him dangerous, there for that is a perfect reason for Edward to want Bella to stay away from him. . He 'wants' not ordering her to.Its like a older brother telling his sister she should not go out with a thug. WE MUST ALSO RECALL THAT HE LEAVES DURING THE FIRST HALF OF THE SECOND BOOK BUT IT IS BELLA WHO GOES CHASING AFTER EDWARD, NOT EDWARD AFTER BELLA. He is a Vampire. Its like having a your favorite candy sitting in front of you but your on a diet. I mean if she a abused she would not be with him.
I am going to state this as many people have said before Vampire and werewolf's are mortal enemies
and why are you debating over this topic anyway its pointless because you are never going to change the book and all the fandoms mind.

oh when your debating try to be fair

[Alice Parker]

Pink Colored Pencil

Your are using human relationship facts Honey let me tell you something Edward anit human. So let me tell you a thing or two about debating. Never give your opponent a chance to rebuttal.
I think you have never even read the books. Abusive no. There is only one jealous person in the whole book and that is Jacob. Now lets recall Jacob likes Bella, Bella does not like Jacob like that, therefore making Jacob mad (werewolf thing about it) and making him dangerous, there for that is a perfect reason for Edward to want Bella to stay away from him. . He 'wants' not ordering her to.Its like a older brother telling his sister she should not go out with a thug. WE MUST ALSO RECALL THAT HE LEAVES DURING THE FIRST HALF OF THE SECOND BOOK BUT IT IS BELLA WHO GOES CHASING AFTER EDWARD, NOT EDWARD AFTER BELLA. He is a Vampire. Its like having a your favorite candy sitting in front of you but your on a diet. I mean if she a abused she would not be with him.
I am going to state this as many people have said before Vampire and werewolf's are mortal enemies
and why are you debating over this topic anyway its pointless because you are never going to change the book and all the fandoms mind.

oh when your debating try to be fair

How do you know that if she was abused she would not be with him? Don't you know some reasons that women stay in abusive relationships are:

1.) Their partner promises to change.
2.) The think they're in love.
3.) Their partner says they'll die without them. Sounds like Ed. huh?

And if you're going to argue, please organize the content. I only got about half of what you said.

[Pink Colored Pencil]

Alice Parker

Pink Colored Pencil

Your are using human relationship facts Honey let me tell you something Edward anit human. So let me tell you a thing or two about debating. Never give your opponent a chance to rebuttal.
I think you have never even read the books. Abusive no. There is only one jealous person in the whole book and that is Jacob. Now lets recall Jacob likes Bella, Bella does not like Jacob like that, therefore making Jacob mad (werewolf thing about it) and making him dangerous, there for that is a perfect reason for Edward to want Bella to stay away from him. . He 'wants' not ordering her to.Its like a older brother telling his sister she should not go out with a thug. WE MUST ALSO RECALL THAT HE LEAVES DURING THE FIRST HALF OF THE SECOND BOOK BUT IT IS BELLA WHO GOES CHASING AFTER EDWARD, NOT EDWARD AFTER BELLA. He is a Vampire. Its like having a your favorite candy sitting in front of you but your on a diet. I mean if she a abused she would not be with him.
I am going to state this as many people have said before Vampire and werewolf's are mortal enemies
and why are you debating over this topic anyway its pointless because you are never going to change the book and all the fandoms mind.

oh when your debating try to be fair

How do you know that if she was abused she would not be with him? Don't you know some reasons that women stay in abusive relationships are:

1.) Their partner promises to change.
2.) The think they're in love.
3.) Their partner says they'll die without them. Sounds like Ed. huh?

And if you're going to argue, please organize the content. I only got about half of what you said.

I guess your right it was disorganized.

I really wish i knew how you thought him abusive. I understand you dislike Edward (from my point of view it seems that way) but i don't see the abusive. I see no Mental or physical abuse.

If you were to ask me I would say this is not 'Edward is abusive' Discussion but more of a 'I hate Edward' Discussion.

[Minari]

Did you read the essay? The rebuttles? We have posted Very. Clear. reasons we think he's abusive.

[The Thrill of Twilight]

Well, this is one of the stupidest threads I have ever laid eyes on.