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Your opinion?

I knew it all along. 0.61755485893417 61.8% [ 1576 ]
Good points, but I'm not convinced. 0.15399686520376 15.4% [ 393 ]
You're wrong, and I will post my rebuttal. 0.11481191222571 11.5% [ 293 ]
But it's True Love! 0.11363636363636 11.4% [ 290 ]
Total Votes:[ 2552 ]
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Aldorel
Summary of Points


arrow Edward is jealous of Jacob. Abuse red flag number one.
arrow Edward isolates Bella from her friends, then abandons her.
arrow "I couldn't live without you." : Edward attempts suicide over Bella. Cntrol tactic.
arrow Edward encourages Bella to lie to her father.
arrow Edward frightens Bella with his vampirism but does not take steps to ensure her safety.
arrow Edward does not allow Bella to make her own decisions or to disagree with him.
arrow Edward watches Bella while she sleeps.


Jealousy makes sense, honestly. Just because one gets Jealous does NOT mean they're abusive, though I can see how it may be taken as an early 'warning sign' when taken to extremes.

No argument about the second or third points.

While encouraging one to lie to their close family may be considered manipulative and abusive in most relationships, the stakes are noticeably higher in Edward's case; he's a vampire.

No argument about the fifth.

Only half-arguing with this. He's about four times as old as Bella and knows more about how high the stakes of the whole 'vampire' thing is, however, so he does usually actually know what's best. But I'll admit, it does go overboard.

No argument about him watching her as she sleeps. I found that creepy too.

In short, I think you maybe on onto something, but not all of your points hold water.
Aldorel
(Second post is summary of points for the busy.)

When it comes to media influences, we are most concerned with what our heroes do. After all, they are supposed to be the most admirable of people. A villain’s actions are assumed to be questionable, but the hero is, well, essentially noble. Why is it, then, that no one seems to be concerned that Edward Cullen, hero of the bestselling books Twilight and New Moon, is an abusive boyfriend? His actions repeatedly demonstrate a dangerous mentality of dependency and control.

The first thing any girl hears in a dating violence discussion is that jealousy is not love. Yet Edward is critically jealous of Jacob Black, one of Bella’s family friends. In a confrontation at the end of New Moon, Bella is genuinely afraid for Jacob’s life. Fans of the series might say “Oh, but Jacob is a werewolf – they’re historical enemies.” Would this excuse an English beau from threatening an Irish friend?

Jealousy is a control tactic. As such, it is often paired with isolation – a technique most familiar in cult dynamics. As soon as Edward and Bella begin dating, Edward repeatedly criticizes her friends as ‘shallow.’ Bella soon stops going anywhere with other friends. Not having formed strong bonds before Edward appears on the scene, Bella never bothers to form them at all. The isolation is so complete that when Edward leaves in the beginning of New Moon, Bella spends three months in a depressed state before rediscovering her other friends.

Abandonment is a control tactic in its own right. It is emotionally jarring, disruptive, and, if timed properly, can convince the target that their life is less worthwhile without the abuser. I have been the subject of this treatment myself – and, if it were not for my close friends, it would have worked. Thanks to isolation, Bella has no such friends. When Edward resurfaces, she immediately clings to him more desperately than before. He has become her only lifeline.

Of course, Edward resurfaces in that he attempts suicide. I don’t care what Romeo and Juliet says: suicide is not romantic. Apart from being mentally unstable, this is characteristic of abusive boyfriends. Many abused women remain with their boyfriends because they believe that they still love each other. They often feel responsible for their boyfriend, who tells them “I can’t live without you.” For obvious reasons, Bella doesn’t want to be responsible for Edward’s death. But because of this fear for his life, she stays in a self-destructive relationship.

This sense of responsibility for his welfare also extends to lying to her father. Encouraged deception is a red flag for an abusive relationship. Yes, you can argue that Bella shouldn’t tell her father about Edward’s vampirism for the same reason that she wouldn’t tell anyone if he had AIDS: respect for privacy. But it is expected that she would tell her father when she is with her boyfriend. Lying is unnecessary. You can argue that Edward does not encourage her to lie, instead asking her to tell someone where she is. But this statement is consistently followed with “So I know that if I kill you, I’ll get in trouble for it.” Predictably, it has the opposite effect: Bella, out of her sense of responsibility for her boyfriend, keeps their dates secret. Thus serving Edward’s ends.

This scenario, in which Edward frightens Bella, is scattered throughout Twilight. Fear is emotional abuse. It can also be used to assert control. Fans might say that Edward is constantly telling Bella how much he wants to kill her and giving unnecessary displays of strength in order to convince her not to stay with him. Why, then, doesn’t he take the lead and stay away from Bella? Because he’s “selfish.” If he is unable to stay away from her, he has no right to scare her. Calmly explaining the danger – once, as accurately as possible, without hyperbole – will suffice. And then a boy who really cared would help her take necessary precautions for her own safety. For example, telling Charlie when they would be together. Or, having Carlisle chaperone. But that would prevent Bella from swooning over his “devotion.”

Finally, Edward refuses to allow Bella to make her own decisions. She insists she does not want to go to the prom – he brings her there without telling her. She insists she doesn’t want a birthday party – he gives her a surprise party. She does not want to leave Charlie while James is loose – he throws her in the back seat and tells his brother to hold her down. When she resists, he either works around her back or manipulates her decision, kissing her until she forgets her argument. Real boyfriends respect their girlfriend’s right to a decision. Abusive boyfriends must make all the decisions – using force if necessary.

Add the fact that Edward is prone to watching Bella while she sleeps, and you have one very unhealthy relationship. This is not “love against all odds” – this is emotional and occasionally physical abuse. But this is quickly becoming the modern girl’s image of True Love. Dating violence is an explosive problem as it is – largely because people are unable to recognize it when it occurs. Abuse is seen as normal.

Are you frightened yet? I am.


Twilight is by no means one of my favorite novels and I agree that you've made a few good arguments, but I don't think that Edward is abusive.

Edward isn't jealous of Jacob, he seems to realize that Bella isn't romantically interested in him. He's more worried that Jacob will lose control and hurt Bella, just like Emily was hurt by Sam. He doesn't threaten to kill Jacob either. Bella is worried that Jacob will start a fight he can't win.

Edward's attempted suicide does show an unhealthy dependence of Bella, but it wasn't done to bring her back. After all, he thought that she was dead. Similarly, his abandonment could have been abusive behavior, but it wasn't intended that way. He honestly believed that she was better off without him and that she would eventually get over him. He frequently claims that humans don't have relationships as deep as those of vampires. (The werewolves later say something to the same effect.)

He claimed that her human friends were shallow because he honestly believed that. He was able to read their thoughts and was evidently unimpressed. Bella's isolation could also be slightly self-imposed. She never contacted her old friends from Arizona. After Edward left she eventually latched on to Jacob, which implies that she has a tendency to only form one or two close relationships at once.

Edward's habit of trying to scare her are also misguided attempts to protect her. He is, after all, fully capable of killing and eating her. He claims in the first book that Bella doesn't feel fear when she should and thus acts irrationally.

I agree that their relationship is unhealthy, but Edward doesn't strike me as abusive. Many of his actions ended up hurting her, but he never intended for that to happen.
Aldorel


arichan99
If jealousy is not love, than what is it? It makes sense that if you are in love or in a relationship with someone that you want them to be faithful to you. It could be lust, but not in this case, because Edward never tries to use Bella for sex.

It's control. Jealousy is wanting to be the only person in someone's life. Love is acting in a person's best intrests. Keeping Bella from Jacob Black is not in her best intrests.


Actually, it is. Edward only threatens to hurt Jacob if Jacob makes the first move, which would count as self-defense. He and Alice both allude to instability being common to werewolves, especially young ones like Jacob. Sam already maimed his fiancee and Jacob admitted that he has trouble controlling his actions. Edward must be aware of this because of his mind-reading ability.

I agree that Edward is not a great boyfriend, but I don't think that this is a valid argument.
Aldorel
Because he says he loves her. Doesn't that prove everything?


love is an action not a feeling, if edward did love bella then he would leave her for her own good, like you mentioned in the first post. i totally agree with what you said in the first post, the book would go father if there was actually real love in it. i think the book has gone far because of the story seems incredible, and also many girls would want a fantasy related to it.
I have to admit you made a lot of points that do prove their relationship isn't exactly as faultless as many assume, but I don't think you can label it as abusive. When you point out those traits your pointing out things that make human relationships unhealthy or abusive and Edward isn't human. He's different, his behavior, actions and thoughts aren't the same as a humans so I'm not sure your analysis on their relationship is 100% accurate.
Izumi Shikibu
Aldorel
(Second post is summary of points for the busy.)

When it comes to media influences, we are most concerned with what our heroes do. After all, they are supposed to be the most admirable of people. A villain’s actions are assumed to be questionable, but the hero is, well, essentially noble. Why is it, then, that no one seems to be concerned that Edward Cullen, hero of the bestselling books Twilight and New Moon, is an abusive boyfriend? His actions repeatedly demonstrate a dangerous mentality of dependency and control.

The first thing any girl hears in a dating violence discussion is that jealousy is not love. Yet Edward is critically jealous of Jacob Black, one of Bella’s family friends. In a confrontation at the end of New Moon, Bella is genuinely afraid for Jacob’s life. Fans of the series might say “Oh, but Jacob is a werewolf – they’re historical enemies.” Would this excuse an English beau from threatening an Irish friend?

Jealousy is a control tactic. As such, it is often paired with isolation – a technique most familiar in cult dynamics. As soon as Edward and Bella begin dating, Edward repeatedly criticizes her friends as ‘shallow.’ Bella soon stops going anywhere with other friends. Not having formed strong bonds before Edward appears on the scene, Bella never bothers to form them at all. The isolation is so complete that when Edward leaves in the beginning of New Moon, Bella spends three months in a depressed state before rediscovering her other friends.

Abandonment is a control tactic in its own right. It is emotionally jarring, disruptive, and, if timed properly, can convince the target that their life is less worthwhile without the abuser. I have been the subject of this treatment myself – and, if it were not for my close friends, it would have worked. Thanks to isolation, Bella has no such friends. When Edward resurfaces, she immediately clings to him more desperately than before. He has become her only lifeline.

Of course, Edward resurfaces in that he attempts suicide. I don’t care what Romeo and Juliet says: suicide is not romantic. Apart from being mentally unstable, this is characteristic of abusive boyfriends. Many abused women remain with their boyfriends because they believe that they still love each other. They often feel responsible for their boyfriend, who tells them “I can’t live without you.” For obvious reasons, Bella doesn’t want to be responsible for Edward’s death. But because of this fear for his life, she stays in a self-destructive relationship.

This sense of responsibility for his welfare also extends to lying to her father. Encouraged deception is a red flag for an abusive relationship. Yes, you can argue that Bella shouldn’t tell her father about Edward’s vampirism for the same reason that she wouldn’t tell anyone if he had AIDS: respect for privacy. But it is expected that she would tell her father when she is with her boyfriend. Lying is unnecessary. You can argue that Edward does not encourage her to lie, instead asking her to tell someone where she is. But this statement is consistently followed with “So I know that if I kill you, I’ll get in trouble for it.” Predictably, it has the opposite effect: Bella, out of her sense of responsibility for her boyfriend, keeps their dates secret. Thus serving Edward’s ends.

This scenario, in which Edward frightens Bella, is scattered throughout Twilight. Fear is emotional abuse. It can also be used to assert control. Fans might say that Edward is constantly telling Bella how much he wants to kill her and giving unnecessary displays of strength in order to convince her not to stay with him. Why, then, doesn’t he take the lead and stay away from Bella? Because he’s “selfish.” If he is unable to stay away from her, he has no right to scare her. Calmly explaining the danger – once, as accurately as possible, without hyperbole – will suffice. And then a boy who really cared would help her take necessary precautions for her own safety. For example, telling Charlie when they would be together. Or, having Carlisle chaperone. But that would prevent Bella from swooning over his “devotion.”

Finally, Edward refuses to allow Bella to make her own decisions. She insists she does not want to go to the prom – he brings her there without telling her. She insists she doesn’t want a birthday party – he gives her a surprise party. She does not want to leave Charlie while James is loose – he throws her in the back seat and tells his brother to hold her down. When she resists, he either works around her back or manipulates her decision, kissing her until she forgets her argument. Real boyfriends respect their girlfriend’s right to a decision. Abusive boyfriends must make all the decisions – using force if necessary.

Add the fact that Edward is prone to watching Bella while she sleeps, and you have one very unhealthy relationship. This is not “love against all odds” – this is emotional and occasionally physical abuse. But this is quickly becoming the modern girl’s image of True Love. Dating violence is an explosive problem as it is – largely because people are unable to recognize it when it occurs. Abuse is seen as normal.

Are you frightened yet? I am.


Twilight is by no means one of my favorite novels and I agree that you've made a few good arguments, but I don't think that Edward is abusive.

Edward isn't jealous of Jacob, he seems to realize that Bella isn't romantically interested in him. He's more worried that Jacob will lose control and hurt Bella, just like Emily was hurt by Sam. He doesn't threaten to kill Jacob either. Bella is worried that Jacob will start a fight he can't win.

Edward's attempted suicide does show an unhealthy dependence of Bella, but it wasn't done to bring her back. After all, he thought that she was dead. Similarly, his abandonment could have been abusive behavior, but it wasn't intended that way. He honestly believed that she was better off without him and that she would eventually get over him. He frequently claims that humans don't have relationships as deep as those of vampires. (The werewolves later say something to the same effect.)

He claimed that her human friends were shallow because he honestly believed that. He was able to read their thoughts and was evidently unimpressed. Bella's isolation could also be slightly self-imposed. She never contacted her old friends from Arizona. After Edward left she eventually latched on to Jacob, which implies that she has a tendency to only form one or two close relationships at once.

Edward's habit of trying to scare her are also misguided attempts to protect her. He is, after all, fully capable of killing and eating her. He claims in the first book that Bella doesn't feel fear when she should and thus acts irrationally.

I agree that their relationship is unhealthy, but Edward doesn't strike me as abusive. Many of his actions ended up hurting her, but he never intended for that to happen.


I agree with Izumi Shikibu your points don't look closly enough at why the characters do things. It looks more like you pointed out a lot of what they do but not why they did it.
Chiuka
Izumi Shikibu
Aldorel
(Second post is summary of points for the busy.)

When it comes to media influences, we are most concerned with what our heroes do. After all, they are supposed to be the most admirable of people. A villain’s actions are assumed to be questionable, but the hero is, well, essentially noble. Why is it, then, that no one seems to be concerned that Edward Cullen, hero of the bestselling books Twilight and New Moon, is an abusive boyfriend? His actions repeatedly demonstrate a dangerous mentality of dependency and control.

The first thing any girl hears in a dating violence discussion is that jealousy is not love. Yet Edward is critically jealous of Jacob Black, one of Bella’s family friends. In a confrontation at the end of New Moon, Bella is genuinely afraid for Jacob’s life. Fans of the series might say “Oh, but Jacob is a werewolf – they’re historical enemies.” Would this excuse an English beau from threatening an Irish friend?

Jealousy is a control tactic. As such, it is often paired with isolation – a technique most familiar in cult dynamics. As soon as Edward and Bella begin dating, Edward repeatedly criticizes her friends as ‘shallow.’ Bella soon stops going anywhere with other friends. Not having formed strong bonds before Edward appears on the scene, Bella never bothers to form them at all. The isolation is so complete that when Edward leaves in the beginning of New Moon, Bella spends three months in a depressed state before rediscovering her other friends.

Abandonment is a control tactic in its own right. It is emotionally jarring, disruptive, and, if timed properly, can convince the target that their life is less worthwhile without the abuser. I have been the subject of this treatment myself – and, if it were not for my close friends, it would have worked. Thanks to isolation, Bella has no such friends. When Edward resurfaces, she immediately clings to him more desperately than before. He has become her only lifeline.

Of course, Edward resurfaces in that he attempts suicide. I don’t care what Romeo and Juliet says: suicide is not romantic. Apart from being mentally unstable, this is characteristic of abusive boyfriends. Many abused women remain with their boyfriends because they believe that they still love each other. They often feel responsible for their boyfriend, who tells them “I can’t live without you.” For obvious reasons, Bella doesn’t want to be responsible for Edward’s death. But because of this fear for his life, she stays in a self-destructive relationship.

This sense of responsibility for his welfare also extends to lying to her father. Encouraged deception is a red flag for an abusive relationship. Yes, you can argue that Bella shouldn’t tell her father about Edward’s vampirism for the same reason that she wouldn’t tell anyone if he had AIDS: respect for privacy. But it is expected that she would tell her father when she is with her boyfriend. Lying is unnecessary. You can argue that Edward does not encourage her to lie, instead asking her to tell someone where she is. But this statement is consistently followed with “So I know that if I kill you, I’ll get in trouble for it.” Predictably, it has the opposite effect: Bella, out of her sense of responsibility for her boyfriend, keeps their dates secret. Thus serving Edward’s ends.

This scenario, in which Edward frightens Bella, is scattered throughout Twilight. Fear is emotional abuse. It can also be used to assert control. Fans might say that Edward is constantly telling Bella how much he wants to kill her and giving unnecessary displays of strength in order to convince her not to stay with him. Why, then, doesn’t he take the lead and stay away from Bella? Because he’s “selfish.” If he is unable to stay away from her, he has no right to scare her. Calmly explaining the danger – once, as accurately as possible, without hyperbole – will suffice. And then a boy who really cared would help her take necessary precautions for her own safety. For example, telling Charlie when they would be together. Or, having Carlisle chaperone. But that would prevent Bella from swooning over his “devotion.”

Finally, Edward refuses to allow Bella to make her own decisions. She insists she does not want to go to the prom – he brings her there without telling her. She insists she doesn’t want a birthday party – he gives her a surprise party. She does not want to leave Charlie while James is loose – he throws her in the back seat and tells his brother to hold her down. When she resists, he either works around her back or manipulates her decision, kissing her until she forgets her argument. Real boyfriends respect their girlfriend’s right to a decision. Abusive boyfriends must make all the decisions – using force if necessary.

Add the fact that Edward is prone to watching Bella while she sleeps, and you have one very unhealthy relationship. This is not “love against all odds” – this is emotional and occasionally physical abuse. But this is quickly becoming the modern girl’s image of True Love. Dating violence is an explosive problem as it is – largely because people are unable to recognize it when it occurs. Abuse is seen as normal.

Are you frightened yet? I am.


Twilight is by no means one of my favorite novels and I agree that you've made a few good arguments, but I don't think that Edward is abusive.

Edward isn't jealous of Jacob, he seems to realize that Bella isn't romantically interested in him. He's more worried that Jacob will lose control and hurt Bella, just like Emily was hurt by Sam. He doesn't threaten to kill Jacob either. Bella is worried that Jacob will start a fight he can't win.

Edward's attempted suicide does show an unhealthy dependence of Bella, but it wasn't done to bring her back. After all, he thought that she was dead. Similarly, his abandonment could have been abusive behavior, but it wasn't intended that way. He honestly believed that she was better off without him and that she would eventually get over him. He frequently claims that humans don't have relationships as deep as those of vampires. (The werewolves later say something to the same effect.)

He claimed that her human friends were shallow because he honestly believed that. He was able to read their thoughts and was evidently unimpressed. Bella's isolation could also be slightly self-imposed. She never contacted her old friends from Arizona. After Edward left she eventually latched on to Jacob, which implies that she has a tendency to only form one or two close relationships at once.

Edward's habit of trying to scare her are also misguided attempts to protect her. He is, after all, fully capable of killing and eating her. He claims in the first book that Bella doesn't feel fear when she should and thus acts irrationally.

I agree that their relationship is unhealthy, but Edward doesn't strike me as abusive. Many of his actions ended up hurting her, but he never intended for that to happen.


I agree with Izumi Shikibu your points don't look closly enough at why the characters do things. It looks more like you pointed out a lot of what they do but not why they did it.


While that's true, your motive doesn't always matter in cases of abuse. If a father or mother took a hot iron to their child, I don't think people would be as concerned about why they did it, more the fact that they did it in the first place. Now this doesn't really count if the person is, in fact, insane, but I'm pretty sure Edward is mentally stable. (For the most part.)
It makes me wonder what kind of relationships Stephanie Meyer has been in/is in now, because the way she writes Edward and Bella's romance is just completely wrong. I wouldn't go as far as to say that Edward is abusive, but the obsession the pair have for eachother is frightening. Considering that Meyer is writing for young teenagers, it's not healthy to show them that if someone that you love (or in this case, are obsessed/infatuated with) dies, then it's cool to kill yourself because a life without them isn't worth living. It's creepy. I'm pretty hyptocritical because I love the books, but while some parts make me grin insanely, others make me shudder.
Holy enchalada! eek I absolutely abhor those books, and yet I don't think I've put that much thought into exactly how mean Edward can be...

Um, I think that's my way of saying that I more or less agree with all of your points and it's pretty scary how a lot of girls out there see Edwards as oh-so-romantic when he's very... ah... you know.

I think some of your points are maybe a little over exagerated, but for the most part, they make sense. Of course, I think Bella is just as bad as Edward from time to time, so I don't think it's just that he's abusive, but that she almost wants him to be (does that make sense? Maybe not. I dunno).

ninja
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NotQuiteNecessary
While encouraging one to lie to their close family may be considered manipulative and abusive in most relationships, the stakes are noticeably higher in Edward's case; he's a vampire.

But she doesn't need to lie to Charlie about actually being with Edward. When you're with a boy, you should tell your parents. Even if you're not going to tell them is he has, say, Herpes.

Izumi Shikibu
Edward's attempted suicide does show an unhealthy dependence of Bella, but it wasn't done to bring her back. After all, he thought that she was dead. Similarly, his abandonment could have been abusive behavior, but it wasn't intended that way. He honestly believed that she was better off without him and that she would eventually get over him. He frequently claims that humans don't have relationships as deep as those of vampires. (The werewolves later say something to the same effect.)

He claimed that her human friends were shallow because he honestly believed that. He was able to read their thoughts and was evidently unimpressed. Bella's isolation could also be slightly self-imposed. She never contacted her old friends from Arizona. After Edward left she eventually latched on to Jacob, which implies that she has a tendency to only form one or two close relationships at once.

I agree that their relationship is unhealthy, but Edward doesn't strike me as abusive. Many of his actions ended up hurting her, but he never intended for that to happen.

A hundred-year old vampire should know better. When does he start learning from his mistakes? Even if he can't read her mind, he knows how much she relied on him and how superficial her relationships with her other friends are. Further, (and this is a fault of Mrs. Meyer as well as that of Edward himself) there is no way that Bella's friends really are all that shallow. People have shallow surface thoughts - that doesn't mean there isn't more there. And that doesn't mean that you should avoid people who appear shallow. Personal experience taught me that they have something to teach.

If Edward really read classic literature as he supposedly did, he would have placed more value on human relationships. Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre... Romeo and Julliet, for pete's sake.

Even if you form only one or two close relationships, you should form several more casual relationships with people you actually hang out with. Bella does not hang with anyone - she sticks with Edward 24/7.

The suicide itself may not have been abusive - more generally mentally unstable - but constantly threatening suicide is. And suicidal tendencies often crop up in abusers. The suicide attempt itself is not a proof. It supports the other actions listed. Together, I think they add up pretty oerwhelmingly.

Izumi Shikibu
Edward isn't jealous of Jacob, he seems to realize that Bella isn't romantically interested in him. He's more worried that Jacob will lose control and hurt Bella, just like Emily was hurt by Sam. He doesn't threaten to kill Jacob either. Bella is worried that Jacob will start a fight he can't win.
...
(Intermediate post)
...
Actually, it is. Edward only threatens to hurt Jacob if Jacob makes the first move, which would count as self-defense. He and Alice both allude to instability being common to werewolves, especially young ones like Jacob. Sam already maimed his fiancee and Jacob admitted that he has trouble controlling his actions. Edward must be aware of this because of his mind-reading ability.

I agree that Edward is not a great boyfriend, but I don't think that this is a valid argument.

Except that Jacob is precisely as dangerous to Bella as Edward is. Maybe less. Seems a bit hypocritical to me. Plus, he pulled Jacob away from Bella at prom, before he became a werewolf. He doesn't need to think Bella likes him romantically to be jealous.
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silver~knit
love is an action not a feeling...

Were you, by any chance, Catholic-schooled? I first heard it phrased that way in a Theology class myself....

Chiuka
I have to admit you made a lot of points that do prove their relationship isn't exactly as faultless as many assume, but I don't think you can label it as abusive. When you point out those traits your pointing out things that make human relationships unhealthy or abusive and Edward isn't human. He's different, his behavior, actions and thoughts aren't the same as a humans so I'm not sure your analysis on their relationship is 100% accurate.

Yes, he is. That is to say, he was originally human and his abusive actions are very similar to those found in abusers who aren't undead. Jealousy, control, and scare tactics know no species. If they're unhealthy in humans they're unhealthy in vampires. Fantasy translates into the "real world."

Taffy_Jae
Chiuka
I agree with Izumi Shikibu your points don't look closly enough at why the characters do things. It looks more like you pointed out a lot of what they do but not why they did it.

While that's true, your motive doesn't always matter in cases of abuse. If a father or mother took a hot iron to their child, I don't think people would be as concerned about why they did it, more the fact that they did it in the first place. Now this doesn't really count if the person is, in fact, insane, but I'm pretty sure Edward is mentally stable. (For the most part.)

My point exactly. Maybe he isn't intentionally abusive, but he is abusive. This is where we would send a human in for therapy.

Julri
I think some of your points are maybe a little over exagerated, but for the most part, they make sense. Of course, I think Bella is just as bad as Edward from time to time, so I don't think it's just that he's abusive, but that she almost wants him to be (does that make sense? Maybe not. I dunno).

Yes, it makes sense. There are some people who do attract abusive relationships because for some reason they want that dynamic. (Although, again, one can never blame the victim and abuse is never deserved.) Bella's apparent willingness to be dependent doesn't excuse Edward's blatent disregard for her actual needs.

(If I haven't fully answered your objections, tell me and I will elaborate as soon as I can.)
Izumi Shikibu
Aldorel
(Second post is summary of points for the busy.)

When it comes to media influences, we are most concerned with what our heroes do. After all, they are supposed to be the most admirable of people. A villain’s actions are assumed to be questionable, but the hero is, well, essentially noble. Why is it, then, that no one seems to be concerned that Edward Cullen, hero of the bestselling books Twilight and New Moon, is an abusive boyfriend? His actions repeatedly demonstrate a dangerous mentality of dependency and control.

The first thing any girl hears in a dating violence discussion is that jealousy is not love. Yet Edward is critically jealous of Jacob Black, one of Bella’s family friends. In a confrontation at the end of New Moon, Bella is genuinely afraid for Jacob’s life. Fans of the series might say “Oh, but Jacob is a werewolf – they’re historical enemies.” Would this excuse an English beau from threatening an Irish friend?

Jealousy is a control tactic. As such, it is often paired with isolation – a technique most familiar in cult dynamics. As soon as Edward and Bella begin dating, Edward repeatedly criticizes her friends as ‘shallow.’ Bella soon stops going anywhere with other friends. Not having formed strong bonds before Edward appears on the scene, Bella never bothers to form them at all. The isolation is so complete that when Edward leaves in the beginning of New Moon, Bella spends three months in a depressed state before rediscovering her other friends.

Abandonment is a control tactic in its own right. It is emotionally jarring, disruptive, and, if timed properly, can convince the target that their life is less worthwhile without the abuser. I have been the subject of this treatment myself – and, if it were not for my close friends, it would have worked. Thanks to isolation, Bella has no such friends. When Edward resurfaces, she immediately clings to him more desperately than before. He has become her only lifeline.

Of course, Edward resurfaces in that he attempts suicide. I don’t care what Romeo and Juliet says: suicide is not romantic. Apart from being mentally unstable, this is characteristic of abusive boyfriends. Many abused women remain with their boyfriends because they believe that they still love each other. They often feel responsible for their boyfriend, who tells them “I can’t live without you.” For obvious reasons, Bella doesn’t want to be responsible for Edward’s death. But because of this fear for his life, she stays in a self-destructive relationship.

This sense of responsibility for his welfare also extends to lying to her father. Encouraged deception is a red flag for an abusive relationship. Yes, you can argue that Bella shouldn’t tell her father about Edward’s vampirism for the same reason that she wouldn’t tell anyone if he had AIDS: respect for privacy. But it is expected that she would tell her father when she is with her boyfriend. Lying is unnecessary. You can argue that Edward does not encourage her to lie, instead asking her to tell someone where she is. But this statement is consistently followed with “So I know that if I kill you, I’ll get in trouble for it.” Predictably, it has the opposite effect: Bella, out of her sense of responsibility for her boyfriend, keeps their dates secret. Thus serving Edward’s ends.

This scenario, in which Edward frightens Bella, is scattered throughout Twilight. Fear is emotional abuse. It can also be used to assert control. Fans might say that Edward is constantly telling Bella how much he wants to kill her and giving unnecessary displays of strength in order to convince her not to stay with him. Why, then, doesn’t he take the lead and stay away from Bella? Because he’s “selfish.” If he is unable to stay away from her, he has no right to scare her. Calmly explaining the danger – once, as accurately as possible, without hyperbole – will suffice. And then a boy who really cared would help her take necessary precautions for her own safety. For example, telling Charlie when they would be together. Or, having Carlisle chaperone. But that would prevent Bella from swooning over his “devotion.”

Finally, Edward refuses to allow Bella to make her own decisions. She insists she does not want to go to the prom – he brings her there without telling her. She insists she doesn’t want a birthday party – he gives her a surprise party. She does not want to leave Charlie while James is loose – he throws her in the back seat and tells his brother to hold her down. When she resists, he either works around her back or manipulates her decision, kissing her until she forgets her argument. Real boyfriends respect their girlfriend’s right to a decision. Abusive boyfriends must make all the decisions – using force if necessary.

Add the fact that Edward is prone to watching Bella while she sleeps, and you have one very unhealthy relationship. This is not “love against all odds” – this is emotional and occasionally physical abuse. But this is quickly becoming the modern girl’s image of True Love. Dating violence is an explosive problem as it is – largely because people are unable to recognize it when it occurs. Abuse is seen as normal.

Are you frightened yet? I am.


Twilight is by no means one of my favorite novels and I agree that you've made a few good arguments, but I don't think that Edward is abusive.

Edward isn't jealous of Jacob, he seems to realize that Bella isn't romantically interested in him. He's more worried that Jacob will lose control and hurt Bella, just like Emily was hurt by Sam. He doesn't threaten to kill Jacob either. Bella is worried that Jacob will start a fight he can't win.

Edward's attempted suicide does show an unhealthy dependence of Bella, but it wasn't done to bring her back. After all, he thought that she was dead. Similarly, his abandonment could have been abusive behavior, but it wasn't intended that way. He honestly believed that she was better off without him and that she would eventually get over him. He frequently claims that humans don't have relationships as deep as those of vampires. (The werewolves later say something to the same effect.)

He claimed that her human friends were shallow because he honestly believed that. He was able to read their thoughts and was evidently unimpressed. Bella's isolation could also be slightly self-imposed. She never contacted her old friends from Arizona. After Edward left she eventually latched on to Jacob, which implies that she has a tendency to only form one or two close relationships at once.

Edward's habit of trying to scare her are also misguided attempts to protect her. He is, after all, fully capable of killing and eating her. He claims in the first book that Bella doesn't feel fear when she should and thus acts irrationally.

I agree that their relationship is unhealthy, but Edward doesn't strike me as abusive. Many of his actions ended up hurting her, but he never intended for that to happen.


Agreed, though I also agree with some of the points by Aldored. I guess some girls like guys like that. And the second book wasn't that great.
I'd like to add that if Edward were really the caring boyfriend he claims to be, he wouldn't just not be abusive- he would be anti-abusive. He would encourage her to socialize, he would not only respect that she can make decisions, but respect those descisions and show her that she deserves to be heard. Regardless of wether he's intentionally abusive or not, he has a great deal of power over her, he knows it, but he never uses it to enrich her life. He's very selfish about that.
Okay, while I'm not going to sit here and defend the relationship, I will point out one thing:

Unhealthy and Controlling Relationship =/= Abusive Relationship.

Yes, a controlling, or obsessive relationship can later turn into an Emotionally Abusive relationship, or even a physically abusive relationship- but it's not abuse per se.

It's probably not going to be one that's good for either party (Blood Sucking Undead? Not a healthy relationship choice), and the parties in question will walk away with emotional scars, but that just means that the relationship is screwed up- so are alot of relationships.

Controlling, Isolating, and Jelousy are common enough threads in alot of relationships- a guy who manipulates his girlfriend into wearing skirts, because he prefers them, a girl who takes a guy away from his poker night, or even a man who feels slightly grumpy at the thought of his girl talking to her totally hot coworker. It's when these things aren't held in check that it gets to be a baaaaadddd idea.

Then again, I believe in the old saying- Jelousy is simply guilt turned outward.
Okay the one thing that I reallydisagree with (and I can offer more than my personal opinion) is the point that Edward doesn't want her to socialize. While Edward never directly encourage Bella to socialize is that he never tells her not to. My second point is that he took her to the prom because if not for Edward she wouldn't have gone at all. And Bella is a deeper person then most, she can't really listen to or relate to people like Jessica who only cares about her reputation and make-up. And she has other relationships, Alice and all the other Cullens are her friends, also even when she wasn't with Edward she didn't want to do stuff with other people.

Oh and about lying to Charlie, EVERY TEENAGER LIES. My friends do it and I do it. I flat out lie. It's not a good thing but every teenager does it. My friend Amber's mother did not like her bf at all and told her to stop seeing him. Did she? NO! She just didn't let her mother find out. Oh and Edward also encourages Bella to tell her father that she is going with him to the meadow but Bella doesn't.

I just don't see Edward as being abusive. He tells her she can leave if she wants and he won't do anything to stop her.

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