Edward Cullen - Abusive Boyfriend (Eclipse SPOILERS)

Your opinion?

I knew it all along.	61.8%	[ 1576 ]
Good points, but I'm not convinced.	15.4%	[ 393 ]
You're wrong, and I will post my rebuttal.	11.5%	[ 293 ]
But it's True Love!	11.4%	[ 290 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2552 ]

[Javier Cross]

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That's alright, Lieriel.*Pats on back*
In any rate, that sounds like the Macross series or Mass Effect, in a way.

Yeah, like that. One thing effects another. So Bella is the cause of her own daughters death, because she refused to kill the hellspawn. So is Carlise, and the Volturi. You can imagine how peeved Hades is when he finds out about the hellspawn/s. He thinks of them as failures, and you know how madmen are with Failures....*shudders* they often want to destory them. Hades loathes the vampire baby things.... He forbid baby vampires and it does not matter to him that they are human a little...it matters that they are vampire. He's not that rational, plus he was also trying to find a way in order for him to have children. Without killing its bearer. <--- which is what Angela becomes. She becomes his wife and through CENTURIES of work she is able to be something like him. So she can have children since she is not quite a vampire.
She makes teh babies. ((One of them is going to be James....^.^ Cause she's not THAT loyal.))

Perhaps Hades may have had reasons for doing things like that.
Perhaps its because a good amount of his children[mere babies] were murdered by either Immortal Children or hellspawns from another plane of reality, which may explain things about such a stance, considering that too few of the babies survived the raids intact, and even fewer remain nearly half-human.

[Harry Copperfield Dresden]

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That's alright, Lieriel.*Pats on back*
In any rate, that sounds like the Macross series or Mass Effect, in a way.

Yeah, like that. One thing effects another. So Bella is the cause of her own daughters death, because she refused to kill the hellspawn. So is Carlise, and the Volturi. You can imagine how peeved Hades is when he finds out about the hellspawn/s. He thinks of them as failures, and you know how madmen are with Failures....*shudders* they often want to destory them. Hades loathes the vampire baby things.... He forbid baby vampires and it does not matter to him that they are human a little...it matters that they are vampire. He's not that rational, plus he was also trying to find a way in order for him to have children. Without killing its bearer. <--- which is what Angela becomes. She becomes his wife and through CENTURIES of work she is able to be something like him. So she can have children since she is not quite a vampire.
She makes teh babies. ((One of them is going to be James....^.^ Cause she's not THAT loyal.))

Perhaps Hades may have had reasons for doing things like that.
Perhaps its because a good amount of his children[mere babies] were murdered by either Immortal Children or hellspawns from another plane of reality, which may explain things about such a stance, considering that too few of the babies survived the raids intact, and even fewer remain nearly half-human.

Hmm....i could make it so that he wants to get rid of his failures because often times they go insane and cause massive deaths. Blah blah blah...meh....Hades is a god, he doesn't need a reason. He's just badass.

[Javier Cross]

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That's alright, Lieriel.*Pats on back*
In any rate, that sounds like the Macross series or Mass Effect, in a way.

Yeah, like that. One thing effects another. So Bella is the cause of her own daughters death, because she refused to kill the hellspawn. So is Carlise, and the Volturi. You can imagine how peeved Hades is when he finds out about the hellspawn/s. He thinks of them as failures, and you know how madmen are with Failures....*shudders* they often want to destory them. Hades loathes the vampire baby things.... He forbid baby vampires and it does not matter to him that they are human a little...it matters that they are vampire. He's not that rational, plus he was also trying to find a way in order for him to have children. Without killing its bearer. <--- which is what Angela becomes. She becomes his wife and through CENTURIES of work she is able to be something like him. So she can have children since she is not quite a vampire.
She makes teh babies. ((One of them is going to be James....^.^ Cause she's not THAT loyal.))

Perhaps Hades may have had reasons for doing things like that.
Perhaps its because a good amount of his children[mere babies] were murdered by either Immortal Children or hellspawns from another plane of reality, which may explain things about such a stance, considering that too few of the babies survived the raids intact, and even fewer remain nearly half-human.

Hmm....i could make it so that he wants to get rid of his failures because often times they go insane and cause massive deaths. Blah blah blah...meh....Hades is a god, he doesn't need a reason. He's just badass.

That too!

[Harry Copperfield Dresden]

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

[Javier Cross]

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

So when will your brain-digesting stop temporarily?

[Harry Copperfield Dresden]

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

So when will your brain-digesting stop temporarily?

When I start watching the s**t that is New Moon. Oh! Edward just shoved Bella into a wall. ABUSE!
"It was to protect her!" they cry, but Edward could have easily just grabbed her hopped through the window and ran. He didn't need to shove her into the wall. God damnit....I don't want to watch it...my I owe it to my sister.

[Javier Cross]

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

So when will your brain-digesting stop temporarily?

When I start watching the s**t that is New Moon. Oh! Edward just shoved Bella into a wall. ABUSE!
"It was to protect her!" they cry, but Edward could have easily just grabbed her hopped through the window and ran. He didn't need to shove her into the wall. God damnit....I don't want to watch it...my I owe it to my sister.

Alright, milady.
Also, Wine Dude[Prince Dionysus] could use a cameo role.

[Harry Copperfield Dresden]

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

So when will your brain-digesting stop temporarily?

When I start watching the s**t that is New Moon. Oh! Edward just shoved Bella into a wall. ABUSE!
"It was to protect her!" they cry, but Edward could have easily just grabbed her hopped through the window and ran. He didn't need to shove her into the wall. God damnit....I don't want to watch it...my I owe it to my sister.

Alright, milady.
Also, Wine Dude[Prince Dionysus] could use a cameo role.

Maybe I could make him be a vampire thing and just drunk....well.... I don't think that vampire can get drunk....

[Javier Cross]

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Javier Cross

That too!

Of course that is also me just coping out for the moment.

So when will your brain-digesting stop temporarily?

When I start watching the s**t that is New Moon. Oh! Edward just shoved Bella into a wall. ABUSE!
"It was to protect her!" they cry, but Edward could have easily just grabbed her hopped through the window and ran. He didn't need to shove her into the wall. God damnit....I don't want to watch it...my I owe it to my sister.

Alright, milady.
Also, Wine Dude[Prince Dionysus] could use a cameo role.

Maybe I could make him be a vampire thing and just drunk....well.... I don't think that vampire can get drunk....

Dionysus can't get himself drunk, but some other people he might have encountered could have gone drunk[mostly because either he failed to warn them in time, or the people he did warn in time didn't pay enough attention to his instructions!]

[Aldorel]

This is getting weird.

I know that she's left, but I was working on this through the whole discussion, so I might as well post it.

JennKat:

Yes, I am a bit long winded. That's why I summarized everything in the second post, so people could take part in the discussion without having to read the entire first post.

Not only is the relationship between family and lovers different, but Edward does a few things that even a person's parents shouldn't be able to do. For example, forcing Bella to attend the prom. She was clearly emotionally distressed at the prospect, and not going to the prom wouldn't do her any harm at all. Sure, lovers sometimes go to events that only one of them is interested in. But there's a difference between dragging someone to an event they're not interested in and taking someone to an event when they'd rather jump out of a moving car than attend. That's not give and take.

I do believe that family and friends are allowed to intervene if a person is seriously self destructive. An alcoholic, as you said. However, proportionality is important. Taking away an alcoholic's car keys so they can't drive drunk is one thing. Locking them in their house (or someone else's house) is another. Also, if a person is both a alcoholic and a compulsive gambler, it wouldn't be OK to suggest they play poker instead of going to the bar. And that's pretty much what Edward's doing when he decides that Bella should spend time with the Cullens instead of with dangerous Jacob Black.

I'm not calling foul on Jacob Black because this essay is about Edward. I don't want to get too bogged down trying to argue about both of them are terrible, and Edward's actions are more thoroughly condoned in the series. I do feel that it's unforgivable how he forced kisses on Bella in Eclipse. However, the only reason that she hurt her hand is because she punched him. (I haven't read Breaking Dawn, so I can't comment on the wedding.)

JennKat

I’m sorry but where is it written that Edward has a degree in psychology?

He reads minds! He has been reading minds for 80-100 years! Is it too much to ask that he should have a basic understanding of how the mind works?

Lieriel Moon-Shade

Can I ask why it is condescending? I meant it as more a term to call you by that is more an equal. I call lots of people dear, and I mean it as....yeah a slightly affectionate term to an equal.

Actually, I agree with JennKat here. In the context of a debate, using a normally affectionate term can feel condescending. I personally get annoyed when people on a forum debate - on this very thread - call me dear.

[Aldorel]

One last point.

The Psychology Today article only comments on the strength and confidence that Bella (apparently) gains by the end of Breaking Dawn. All this development is entirely possible whether or not Edward is abusive. (Lieriel correctly pointed out that the author only discussed Bella's point of view, and doesn't address Edward's influence aside from being an object of Bella's infatuation.) The author does point out that Bella has this "I-Thou" relationship with Edward alone - and that is in fact a warning sign. In general, whenever a person has only one meaningful relationship, there's a channel for possible abuse. It ties in with the isolation issue.

[Harry Copperfield Dresden]

Woot! I got supported! Hurray! *dances with joy*

On the other hand, Jacob is actually sweet to Bella in New Moon. Very sweet, he is a akward teenager. He's going through being a shifter, and Bella basically tells him that "I love you, but I love Edward more." So I understand that he is confused, yet that is no excuse for forcing himself on her.
But then again, Bella FORCED herself on him. She used him so I do understand that he is confused. He's never had a relationship before and then Bella comes along and uses him, for a 'young' kid that has never had a 'romantic' relationship before that can really tear them up. Bella may not have thought it as romantic, but Jacob surely does. That is the kicker. While trying to 'regain' herself, she uses him, without CARING about Jacob.
Bella does not care about him... if she does, as she put it herself, she admits that she USES him on more then one ocasion. Again, if she cared about him she would admit this right to him. This way, Jacob himself would chose weather or not to forgive her for ruining his romantic love life for a few years.

[Straye]

Alice Parker

Very well said! How can some people think Edward is the perfect boyfriend with all that against him?

Jacob really was the healthier choice for her. He didn't control her, he let her see and do as she pleased and he was careful to protect her at all costs. He hurt her once by leaving as well, but he did it to protect her from doing the things Edward did and to protect her from himself when he was unstable at the beginning.

I mean really, edward couldn't even have sex with her without bruising the crap out of her.

[Serginio]

hmhmhmhm

[Javier Cross]

Straye

Alice Parker

Very well said! How can some people think Edward is the perfect boyfriend with all that against him?

Jacob really was the healthier choice for her. He didn't control her, he let her see and do as she pleased and he was careful to protect her at all costs. He hurt her once by leaving as well, but he did it to protect her from doing the things Edward did and to protect her from himself when he was unstable at the beginning.

I mean really, edward couldn't even have sex with her without bruising the crap out of her.

So how do we go to save what's left of Vamp-Induced literature, while we have the chance?
We could allow for Unicorns to suddenly stampede the fail out of most of the Houses of Night, if it helps.