Edward Cullen - Abusive Boyfriend (Eclipse SPOILERS)

Your opinion?

I knew it all along.	61.8%	[ 1576 ]
Good points, but I'm not convinced.	15.4%	[ 393 ]
You're wrong, and I will post my rebuttal.	11.5%	[ 293 ]
But it's True Love!	11.4%	[ 290 ]
Total Votes:			[ 2552 ]

[Ravitacus]

Emerald of Your Eye

Okay the one thing that I reallydisagree with (and I can offer more than my personal opinion) is the point that Edward doesn't want her to socialize. While Edward never directly encourage Bella to socialize is that he never tells her not to. My second point is that he took her to the prom because if not for Edward she wouldn't have gone at all. And Bella is a deeper person then most, she can't really listen to or relate to people like Jessica who only cares about her reputation and make-up. And she has other relationships, Alice and all the other Cullens are her friends, also even when she wasn't with Edward she didn't want to do stuff with other people.

Oh and about lying to Charlie, EVERY TEENAGER LIES. My friends do it and I do it. I flat out lie. It's not a good thing but every teenager does it. My friend Amber's mother did not like her bf at all and told her to stop seeing him. Did she? NO! She just didn't let her mother find out. Oh and Edward also encourages Bella to tell her father that she is going with him to the meadow but Bella doesn't.

I just don't see Edward as being abusive. He tells her she can leave if she wants and he won't do anything to stop her.

I'm sorry, even if this is the wrong topic I had to say this. How precisely is Bella deeper than Jessica? Is it because she loves a vampire, or because it's simply True Love she's experiencing? As of yet I see no indication that Bella is deeper than any other girl in the school, unless you count, "Edward I can't live without you you're too pretty!" as deep.

And Meyers, like Meg Cabot, seriously over-stereotypes the average female high-schooler. True, many of them care about their reputation and make-up. However, caring about your reputation is not shallow. I mean, who in the world really wants to be called High School's Most Willing Whore? No one. Reputation is not shallow, but can actually be something stemming from past emotional abuse or neglect.

If all the girls in Bella's high school are "shallow," as Bella claims, and care only about how they look, then I wonder: how did many of them get past ninth grade, since make-up is obviously the only thing they care for and obviously trumps grades and schoolwork?

[Ravitacus]

shmeiliarockie

First of all, xXMyRainFallXx, please learn how to spell the word "what" correctly. There is an 'h' in there. Some capitalization, punctuation, and paragraph breaks wouldn't be a miss either. My eyes glaze over trying to read all that. But for the sake of debate, I'll try my best. Here goes!

xXMyRainFallXx

wat are you talking about how edward would try to keep bella away, sure he's agitated with him due to the fact that jacob is after bella. wat boyfriend would let some guy just try to take your love away? edward loved bella, he clearly said that she might have been better off with jacob because he didn't want to risk her life.

Okay, now I don't want to misunderstand you, so I'm going to try to rephrase what you're saying so that it makes sense. Please correct me if I get it wrong: What are you talking about? Edward would try to keep Bella away, sure. He's agitated with him (with whom? Bella is not a 'him') due to the fact that Jacob is after Bella. What boyfriend would let some guy just try to take your love away? Edward loved Bella, he clearly said she might have been better off with Jacob because he didn't want to risk her life. Was that right?

So, let's break this down one "arguement" at a time.

Edward would try to keep Bella away, sure. He's agitated with him (with whom? Bella is not a 'him') due to the fact that Jacob is after Bella. What boyfriend would let some guy just try to take your love away?
I'm getting an image of Jacob as a stereotypical cave man here, throwing his woman over his shoulder and carting her off. Does Bella possess a will of her own? Is she mentally capable of making her own decisions? She can refuse Jacob if she wants to. She isn't a small child who needs to be protected. If she wants to hang out with Jacob, she should be able to. It isn't Edward's right to dictate who she talks to. And if she would have decided she would rather date the werewolf, then Edward should have been man enough to let her go. But tada, she didn't choose Jacob, she chose Edward after all. So he overracted and robbed her of the decision when it really wasn't necessary. If he really loved her, he would trust her. But he doesn't trust her. And don't say it was Jacob he didn't trust. He admits to being jealous, and he wouldn't be jealous if he trusted her like he should.

Edward loved Bella, he clearly said she might have been better off with Jacob because he didn't want to risk her life.
This point makes no sense. He clearly said she might have been better off with Jacob, BECAUSE he didn't want to risk her life? I thought the usual arguement is that the werewolves are supposedly more dangerous than the vampires. If that was the case, then leaving her in Jacob's paws would not be the best thing for her. However, I do believe that the vampires are more dangerous, because Jasper tried to eat her. That never happened around the wolf pack. I'm not sure if that's what you meant. If he thought Bella was better off with Jacob, why did he get back together with her? I'm confused. Please clarify, if you'd be so kind.

xXMyRainFallXx

i don't see flaws in edward. i see flaws in bella.

You don't want to see flaws in Edward. Therefore, you don't. You see flaws in Bella, because you are not in love with Bella.

xXMyRainFallXx

how would you feel if ur gf also had feelings for another guy and even went so far as to making out with him.

I thought Jacob was her best friend, not her love interest. Sure, she decides she has more than friendly feelings for him, but only after he forced himself on her twice. That's Stockholme Syndrome, not love. Edward should know that. The fact that he doesn't only proves he has a boat load of insecurities, and doesn't trust his girlfriend. Besides, you're blaming the victim, which is never a good thing. She never actively hunted out Jacob with the intent to make out with him. Let me reiterate, he forced himself on her. There is a BIG difference.

xXMyRainFallXx

edward left bella because he thought it was BEST for her to live a normal life, but bella is stubborn.

It's not his place to decide what's best for her. It's her life, and her right to make stupid decisions if she wants to.

xXMyRainFallXx

edward needed to make bella believe that they can't be together, so in trade for safety, he had to hurt her

But it didn't stop her from falling into harm's way, it made her actively seek out trouble. That's something she never did before he left her. If you were trying to say the end justifies the means, you picked a terrible example.

xXMyRainFallXx

and it probably hurt edward even more.

Bull. He isn't the one who fell into a catatonic state for several months, and then put himself into numerous dangerous situations just to hear her voice. He didn't curl into a ball on the forest floor and simply shut down until someone found him. Bella had the short end of the stick in that situation, hands down.

xXMyRainFallXx

with bella being an accident magnet

I've said it before, she was never a danger magnet until she met him. It may not directly be his fault, but she was fine until he came into her life.

xXMyRainFallXx

with bella being unstable

If he knew she was unstable, he should have never left because he would have known it would unhinge her. If he knew that and did it anyway, he was being unnecessarily cruel to her. And that's not something good boyfriends do.

xXMyRainFallXx

with bella being obsessed

Again, he should have known what his leaving would do to her. This does not prove your point at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

xXMyRainFallXx

i believe that edward did the right things that he could do to try and keep it all safe

Keep 'it' safe? What's it? Bella's a 'she'. So, let's review: He knew she was emotionally unstable, as well as unhealthily obsessed with him. So, of course, leaving her is the best thing for her? Only if it's Opposite Day. It clearly didn't make her safe, it made her constantly put herself into dangerous situations AND hallucinate. Great job, Edward!

xXMyRainFallXx

ofcourse maybe his ways were a little on the extreme side, but he did it all for love.

"He only hurts me 'cause he loves me." That's all I'm saying.

xXMyRainFallXx

and edward's jealousy is control you say? bella needed that control. think about it, think about why edward had to step up and control her.

Oh yes, Edward, put your woman in line. She clearly is too stupid or too infantile to make ANY decisions on her own. She needs you, her big strapping man, to make them for her. Uh-huh. Yay for justifying abuse! Way to blame the victim AGAIN, xXMyRainFallXx. Way to go.

xXMyRainFallXx

bella's bound to get into more trouble without edwards control.

She did just fine in the seventeen years of her life before she moved to Forks. Just throwing that out there.

I see the Socratic Method here! High fives all around! (I'm taking philosophy right now.)

[cazziii_fire]

i think somebody should go read Chobits..LOL! sweatdrop

[shmeiliarockie]

Ravitacus

I see the Socratic Method here! High fives all around! (I'm taking philosophy right now.)

Thanks! Critical thinking tools are good; too bad not enough people use them.

cazziii_fire

i think somebody should go read Chobits..LOL!

What in the world does Chobits have to do with whether or not Edward is an abusive boyfriend? I know nothing about it, so please enlighten me. Should the rest of the statement go something like this: "...if you want to see an even worse example of abuse presented as romance in popular culture"?

Because if not, it contributes nothing to the conversation. And even if that was what you were aiming for, this is a thread specifically about the Twilight Series (it's not a saga, no matter what it says on the cover) and not anime. Either way, what you said sounds like an attempt at steering the conversation away from the topic at hand, thus avoiding actually addressing the problem.

[dhampir_princess]

interesting. i read the whol first post and i can see the argument. i just don't agree. i don't think edward is actually abusive, he does just love her, if a bit emphatically. i still like edward and i'd probably to the same things as bella if i were her... does that mean i'm an enabler? someone who looks for abuse and lets it happen? i don't think so.

[NihongoSeito]

Ironically enough I'm reading Eclipse now (don't like but I have to finish the series or else it'll just bug me) and a paper about abusive relationships was given out to everyone in my school. I figure I'd write a part of it here so we can all see how Edward is abusive.

Does your partner:
humiliate, insult, criticize, demean or yell at you?
ignore or put down your thoughts, feelings or accomplishments?
treat you so badly that you're embarrassed for you friends and family to see?
blame you for all the problems in your relationship, or for his/her own abusive behavior?
see you as property or a sex object, rather than as a person?
act excessively jealous and possessive?
control where you go or what you do?
keep you from seeing friends or family?
check up on you all of the time to see where you are and who you are with?
accuse you without good reason of being unfaithful or flirting?
limit your access to money, the phone, or the car?
have a bad and unpredictable temper?
destroy you belongings or things of value?
hurt you, or threaten to hurt or kill you?
threaten to take your children away or harm them?
threaten to commit suicide if you leave?
force you to have sex?

Do you:
feel afraid of your partner much of the time?
avoid certain topics out of fear of angering your partner?
feel that you can't do anything right for your partner?
wonder if you're the one going crazy?
feel increasingly powerless?
feel emotionally numb or helpless?

[skyeee_S2]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA! rofl
(Okay, seriously, when i first read this i asked my friend this;
"Is this for real?" And we both laughed quite hard.)

And what, your posting your... 'concerns' on a website that promotes a somewhat fantasy-like aura? Woahhhhhh. rolleyes

I mean, you do realize that the Twilight Saga is fantasy/unrealistic dont you?
Then you do realize that the majority of its fans do understand that aswell?

Look, stop wasting your time typing up your biased opnions concerns about who people look up too in soceity. Get over it, seriously, you don't have to like the books, you don't have to admire Edward and Bella nor admire their relationship, so why are you wasting your time persuading others to look on the 'dark side' (massivly dramatic music) on a book that does not take place ENTIRELY in the real world, real soceity anyway.

And don't sit there and say "oh shes just another fan who has fallen for stephenie meyer's death-trap that she has set up in every word of her books" because seriously - although i think your little post is downright humourous and.. moronic smile - i do see your side.. once again in a humourous way.

And i leave you with this;
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHA!
NICE TRY LOVE!!! rofl



P.S i agree with xXMyRainFallXx, what is spelt with a 'h'. It goes after the W and before the A. wink

[Speckleleaf]

I don't really care what you say. Thats just your point of view of teh story. I personally LOVE Edward Cullen and he IS NOT an abusive boyfriend. This is rather rediculous. Edward and Bella are perfect for each other. And Bella DOES have a good relationship with her friends. Angela for example. It wasn't Edward's fault that Bella was so obsessed with him!

and second, The story is a FANTACY!! I think the drana makes it a good book stare

[shmeiliarockie]

skyeee_S2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!

When you begin a post like this, it does not make me want to take you seriously. Since you were not polite, I am dismissing everything you say from here out. Learn some manners, then try to talk to us. We have also already addressed the "it's just fantasy" defense many, many times. Perhaps if you had read all 104 pages of discussion, you would understand why that "argument" doesn't hold water.

Speckleleaf

I don't really care what you say. Thats just your point of view of teh story.

Okay, so here's the deal. For every point YOU make, I'm going to turn this argument back on you. Okay? See what it gets you.

Speckleleaf

he IS NOT an abusive boyfriend.

I don't really care what you say. That's just your point of view. Not very nice, is it? Just to hammer this point home, let's keep going.

Speckleleaf

Edward and Bella are perfect for each other.

I don't really care what you say. That's just your point of view.

Speckleleaf

And Bella DOES have a good relationship with her friends.

I don't really care what you say. That's just your point of view.

Speckleleaf

It wasn't Edward's fault that Bella was so obsessed with him!

Oh really? 'Cause I seem to remember an incident that went something like this: "I'm no good for you, so please meet me in the meadow. Oh, and if I eat you it's your own dang fault for not giving me an incentive to bring you back. I love you. As if you could outrun me. As if you could fight me off." Besides, I don't really care what you say. That's just your point of view.

Speckleleaf

and second, The story is a FANTACY!! I think the drana makes it a good book

Oh yes, false suspense (Who will Bella choose??!1!!11! Edwrd or Jakob?!?!!!) and ill resloved conflicts (Newborn hunger? Please, Bella is the perfectest vampire who ever vampired) make for great drama.

I might have taken this argument seriously (or not, see my response to skyeee_S2) if you could spell "fantasy" and "drama" correctly. Try actually paying attention in class next time instead of rereading New Moon behind your English textbook.

When trying to make a point, mere opinions aren't enough. You need to back up your claims with quotes from the book. How are they perfect? He thinks she smells tasty and she can't take her eyes off of him. That does not make a great relationship. Also, merely saying that they are doesn't make true. I need specific examples.

The same goes for Bella's "friendships". Show me how the wonderful relationship between Bella and her friends. Did you notice that she never spoke to any of them again after her wedding? Not once is Mike mentioned, or Angela, or Jessica. Not even her own mother, and she claims her mother is her best friend. Normal human beings mean nothing to her.

[bePeterPan]

shmeiliarockie

skyeee_S2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA!

When you begin a post like this, it does not make me want to take you seriously. Since you were not polite, I am dismissing everything you say from here out. Learn some manners, then try to talk to us. We have also already addressed the "it's just fantasy" defense many, many times. Perhaps if you had read all 104 pages of discussion, you would understand why that "argument" doesn't hold water.

Thank you, true that.

skyeee_S2

Look, stop wasting your time typing up your biased opnions concerns about who people look up too in soceity. Get over it, seriously, you don't have to like the books, you don't have to admire Edward and Bella nor admire their relationship, so why are you wasting your time persuading others to look on the 'dark side' (massivly dramatic music) on a book that does not take place ENTIRELY in the real world, real soceity anyway.

They aren't biased if we're admitting to reporting our opinioins. Bias is something that doesn't show both sides of the story, like a newspaper reporter might use bias when talking about liberalism/conservatism and he only mentions the pros of liberalism and the cons of conservatism. We have agreed before with fans who have decided to debate politely the topic of Edward's abuse.
And what's so wrong about pointing out the cons of someone or something people, in today's society, admire?
Also, the book does happen to take place in the real world, unless you don't count Planet Earth as the "real world" or "real society" so we can make plenty of judgements regarding today's views of abuse in contrast with the books.

And we're not wasting our time if it gets younger girls to realize that this is no stable and/or healthy relationship.
P.S. Learn the difference between "to" and "too". And how to spell society, it's misspelled twice as you obviously don't like the misspelling of "what".

[Aldorel]

skyeee_S2

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA! rofl
(Okay, seriously, when i first read this i asked my friend this;
"Is this for real?" And we both laughed quite hard.)

Yes, this is for real. Now that we've got that cleared up...

skyeee_S2

And what, your posting your... 'concerns' on a website that promotes a somewhat fantasy-like aura? Woahhhhhh. rolleyes

I'm posting them here because I've seen a rather large number of Twilight fangirls here. As opposed to a more academic place where I would be talking to the Jane Austen fans. (Granted, if you believe what SM says about her reading habits, I might find her at an Austen fansite, too... whee but I doubt it.)

skyeee_S2

I mean, you do realize that the Twilight Saga is fantasy/unrealistic dont you?

Yes, it is both fantasy and unrealistic.
No, the two are not the same thing.

skyeee_S2

Then you do realize that the majority of its fans do understand that aswell?

There are a significant enough number that do not understand this ("Edward Cullen is better than breathing" "After you read Twilight, your whole world is brighter" "I would like to stab you for slandering Edward" Why is this last one so unhinged? Hint: you can't slander a fictional person.) that I think I am justified in raising these points.

Not to mention the cultural points that I'm trying to (tangentially) bring up.

skyeee_S2

Look, stop wasting your time typing up your biased opnions concerns about who people look up too in soceity. Get over it, seriously, you don't have to like the books, you don't have to admire Edward and Bella nor admire their relationship, so why are you wasting your time persuading others to look on the 'dark side' (massivly dramatic music) on a book that does not take place ENTIRELY in the real world, real soceity anyway.

I am a person with an idea. Ideas should be shared. This is why language developed. This is why writing and books developed. If you don't like these things, you shouldn't be in the Books forum.

skyeee_S2

And don't sit there and say "oh shes just another fan who has fallen for stephenie meyer's death-trap that she has set up in every word of her books" because seriously - although i think your little post is downright humourous and.. moronic smile - i do see your side.. once again in a humourous way.

I'd like to say "if you see my side in a humourous way, you're not really seeing my side." However, I am a firm believer in the power of humour.

skyeee_S2

And i leave you with this;
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAAHHAHA!
NICE TRY LOVE!!! rofl

Nice try at what? Looking past the shiny, sparkling cover of a bestseller to find the dirt hiding between the lines?

I could examine my success here in one of three ways:
1. Reaching people.
2. Putting forth an argument that is half-decent.
3. Making people think.
4. Changing lives positively.

1. I have reached people - this thread is pretty darn long, and I'm even in the Lexicon. Some people would call this a pretty big win, but it's actually more of a bonus for me, because there are plenty of raving idiots who get much more public exposure than I do. So we move on to quality-of-argument issues...

2. This is a little subjective, but not everyone who's read this thinks I'm crazy or joking. Even some of the fans have conceded that I make good points.

3. Unfortunately, a good number of the people who post here don't display any genuine thought in their posts - and in a sense, this includes some of the "I knew it all along" category in addition to the mindless twihards, in the sense that it sometimes doesn't take a lot of thought to agree with someone. But some people have made lengthy, reasonable comments. Whether these people agree with my argument or not, in the end they have at least considered it.

4. At least one person has told me that reading this helped them to make positive change in their life. One definite life changed for the better. Whenever I think "maybe I should've just ignored the Twilight thing and taken up watercolors", I remember that. And it's worth it.

So, yes, I think I made it a pretty nice try.

[Guma-chan]

Hi! i just wanted to point out that...

Edward just didn't want Bella to see Jacob because he was a Werewolf. you do know that Jacob was the same way with Bella right? not wanted her to see Edward cause he was a Vampire.

i noticed that you mentioned that when Bella didn't want to celebrate her birthday he threw her a surprise party. he didn't throw her the surprise party. he just brought her there, not forcefully might i add. the party was Alices idea.


i also notice that you put why didn't he stay in Alaska. hate to say this but they left Alaska long before Bella arrived in Forks. so that point makes no sense at all.

you said that edward took her to the prom when she didn't want to go. true. but he wanted her to make human memories...while she was still human since she wanted t be turned vampire.

you said that "She does not want to leave Charlie while James is loose – he throws her in the back seat and tells his brother to hold her down. When she resists, he either works around her back or manipulates her decision, kissing her until she forgets her argument" that was for her own protection. if he didn't do that Bella would be dead already cause James would have gotten his hands on her way before hand.

you said "A parallel incident can be found when he forges a note to Charlie in her handwriting on the day he leaves her in the middle of the woods. Yes, it turned out to be a good thing that Charlie knew that she was out there when she went missing, but no, that doesn't excuse forging a note when it would have been just as easy to write the note as himself: "Hey, Chief Swan, it's Edward. Bella and I are going for a walk in the woods. Be back soon."" that would have eliminated the purpose. Charlie would have just waited and waited and waited for them to come home because he know that edward knows his way around the woods. then after a long time of waiting he would have sent the search party. thus leaving Bella in the woods even longer than normal.

you wrote "And there remains one crucial element of domination in this relationship that has not been addressed – possessiveness. Talking of marriage, Edward says, “I want the world to know that you’re mine and no one else’s.” This is not normal, and it is not healthy! Even married couples have a life outside of each other. That sentiment, “You’re mine,” might seem a mark of devotion, but it is a denial of Bella’s full humanity. That mentality remains whether the couple is aware of it or not. And it will resurface eventually." just because edward said that doesn't mean that she won't have a life away from edward. no where does it suggest that. when edward says "I want the world to know your mine and no one else's" he means that he wants the world to know that they are married and that he doesn't any other guys hitting on his girl.

and lastly i would like to say that...

wow. i kind of admire you. i mean sure i argued with you but your arguments are pretty good. you must have done your homework. i mean the book twilight probably wasn't the best choice since well... its a book. made for the enjoyment of others. but anyway good job! you should become a lawyer. seriously though i admire your hard work. you are really making an argument and supporting it! awesome!!

smile !