Reason For Petition & Voices Of The Gaians.
Since most here are telling me i need to get my facts straight, i decided to go around and find both side of this TAX issue. I read Lazer's sticky and read others opinion. So i am writing this as someone who knows both side of the matter and a proud Exchanger & Vender. And remember these are my OPiNiON & COMMENTS.
Well the reason for this is WHY SUCH A THiNG?!
Most Gaian already believe this is no way to stop inflations, it will only cause more.
Because of the 2% Listing fees more and more people are going to sell higher in order to get the profit and result they want. But selling high only causes others to sell high so they aren't lossing gold.
And Not only will the MP (MarketPlace) inflate it leaves Venders and Exchanger with hard time doing what they do.
Well you're probably asking "So? Whats the deal..Its ONLY 2%"
Yes only 2% But think about it; If you sold and item in the MP for 100k you only get 98k. Yes thats only 2K but what about an item thats 1000K [[1 Million in other words]]? An item you sell for 1 Million in the MP you lose 20k! Ok now 20k...oh boohoo right? But now think about it...it all adds up sooner or later. And that sooner or later adds up to MORE then the 1k we paied for the Vending L.
As i was going through for Signatures there were comments that bring up good point. Like someone saying the 2% is good to buyer because its a Buyer's Market. As for a buyer this 2% Might be a good thing but your only looking at it from a BUYER'S POiNT OF ViEW. The MP Does not consist of just buyers but also Sellers, Venders, and Exchangers; those who put the items you want in the MP so you can buy it. So if saying its for the BUYER then remember who gives teh buy those items to buy.
Also some of you are saying Gaia is favoring the rich//poor.
Well gaia might be. But it seems, at the moment, Gaia is favoring the poor.
Before a certain time, when you joined Gaia all you had was Pesant clothes and that was about it. But these days you join and you a number of clothing and even HOUSE iTEMS, yes they aren't worth much but either way you got them. But some mightsay "Well you got them too!" yes we did but after how long? If we got those items when we started we would have a few extra gold to spare and we don't be complaining.
THEREFORE Don't come back to the thread with the whole "FAVORiNG THE RiCH! THiS TAX HELPS THE POOR."
Sealed at 3k?! Never going to happen. One thing i saw from this thread and many others is the wanting of sealed at 3k. BUT you have to remember when sealed were selling at 3k when there HOW many members and gold valued at HOW MUCH. Even IF this 2% Tax helps deflation it won't mean that sealed are going to be down to 3k.
And also the fact the before 5k was a tidy sum and there was no Daily Chance and Puzzles and bonus gold giving for the first of everything; before everything was set at a certain amount and that was it. Therefore there is no way sealed will every be 3k again, the gold value and member count won't allow it.
AND! Some of you don't know what your talking about. No i am not saying about the ones who are against this but ones who goes "I am for this BECAUSE i DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR A VENDiNG L. D<"
Geezbus. and the ones who joined like months ago and are all like "Well before everything was sooo cheap i want it like that tooo"
Don't say you know stuff about '03 - '05[well at least '05] when you never heard of gaia till few months ago.
'03er - '05ers know what things were like before and have a better understanding of why this tax could or couldn't work. Remember i have taken time to learn both side and know why some opposes me so don't go "SHUT UP YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKiNG ABOUT!".
TO ALL that say i am complain and "crying over spilled milk" look around.
You saying that i am complaing cause i am loosing 2% of my gold when sell but so is like all those people who sign. This petition proves that gaians are just as greedy for gold as the next guy/gal that comes along. And look through the thread you already see newbis already complaining and how long have they been playing? I have the righ to voice my opinion and i have not been rude about it so if you wanna say something back i suggest you don't be rude to me.
NEW! If anyone bother to check the MP you can see much have items already raisen. Around the END of july and early Aug. I got my KIKI KITTY PLUSHiE for 196k but now you look at the MP they are at least 225k. And on a smaller note the DEMONiC ANKLETS has inflated much too. When this thread started, ok around that time, i brough Demonic Anklets for 17k and sold for a bit higher making a small profit but when i logged off and logged back on they are at least 23K!. Even before the 2% startes the MP as already go up so much. Therefore i ask you Gaians : "What will happen when the 2% does start?" State a reason with your answer.
Yes i do agree that there is a need to get gold away from user and back into the system hence making the value of gold higher. AND yes this 2% is a TRiAL but what if this trial doesn't work and the prices skyrockets? Then the admins decide to take away the 2% right? YAY right? WRONG! When the 2% is taken away AFTER the trail the prices will stay the way they are; Some might deflate due to not being popular and other will rise like before the 2% listing fee. Either way, in MY OPINiON, the 2% will be bad to gaia IF it ever starts to happen.
! For those to keep comparing Gaia and the REAL world. Know this:
The real work consist of Jobs. See, in the real world in order to get money you work and work. But here on gaia you make gold by talking and playing around. Same difference right? But in the real world they don't keep printing money everytime they need some they use taxes to collect, therefore in the real world taxes work because our money is going in a cycle no more no less. BUT here on gaia money is coming out more then it is coming in. For examples games like puzzels and the daily chance gives away gold and thats the end of it. So all those who are complaining that this is like the real world...LOOK AGAiN.
Those Who Supports
-KingXCard-
they should take 2% off of us thats just stpid that means all hte prices go higher which also sucks... heres an example a coco is like 105 k rite... it soon wil become around 200 nad it will gorw bigger do you guys really want that?
Ms Lolita
This is a bloody fcking blow to us poor Gaians. The end of Sniping, my favorite thing in the whole world. I used to pull up two windows and hunt for the item of my choice and get really awesome prices. but now since the MP prices are going to EXPLODE and I will NEVER get my sealies, my demonic halo, kiki coco, or my yeti cause the money hungery [ie all of us gaians ] are going to further jack up the prices of things to make a profit. There goes my dream avi quest, and my ink quest....
OH Gaia why are you trying to anally rape your member's gold intake measures?
timeless dreams
I sign! This 2% off thing is STUPID and is just going to cause more inflations because of all the reasons you just listed. How sad is it that the Gaia staff did not foresee the result?
Alternate suggestion: If they have to keep the 2% rule, how about this? We'll let everyone be able to buy and sell items, but only people who've bought a vending license won't have to pay the 2% tax; anyone who hasn't still have 2% off.
Wow lookie Gaia an member even as a better idea then you. :]
Darc Roman Zero
I sign this was incredibly stupid i cant believe there gonna tax us
on a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LoL. yes yes Nicely put.
tihoa
also, if theres a 2% charge on something that is bought for 1 gold. do we even get to see that 1 gold?
LoL Nicely said, nicely said..now i wonder do we have to pay to sell at 1g?
iPancakes
im not sure if i signed befor but im just going to state I AM SIGNING.
this is my reason and for all you to who dont want to get rid of the taxtes
RE-THINK IT AFTER YOU READ THIS :IM SURE YOU WILL.
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wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance wahmbulance
okay so blahh blahh blahh, lets cut the crappola and get right down to
the good stuff. OMG WOOT TAXES. yeah well guess what? oh did anyone
attempt to notic that this isnt a SHOP its a FUN ONLINE V E R T U A L game!
we pay taxes enuff just in daily life so what now your going to bring it onto here?
well jeez that makes it FUN! N OOOOO T! pshh, like im sorry but i kinda come
onto the computer to GET AWAY from R E A L I T Y AND ALL ITS B U L L.
so i dont want to have to come on here and try to get some good new stuff
and oh what HAVE TO GIVE, YEAH THATS RIGHT THATS WHAT I SAID g i v e
my gold away to taxes BECUASE THATS WHAT YOUR PRACTIALLY DOING!
yes if you do sit there and add it up a 500,000,000 idem`s %2 tax does
add up QUITE a bit! see this: omgg woot! i have enuff for my questiee now!
-checks updates on gaia online- ZOMG! -sobbbies- achhe! ive been saving up for like
EVERRR!! and now its up to x golddd !!! NUUUUUHH!!! arrggg
and what? oh thats right IVE GOTTA SAVE UP EVEN MORE! ARGG. ):
i dont know about you but questing is going to be come EVEN harderrr!
and if you think this: THE PRICES WILL GO DOWN BECUASE
NO ONE WILL
WANT TO BUY THEM BECUASE NO ONE WILL HAVE ANY GOLD BECUASE IT WILL ALL BE TAXED. yeah well NEWS FREAKIN FLASH.
no one is going to want to sell anything either so that means you will have to
search and search just to MAYBE get a deal! -yes that iss crappola!
so ,why not just use the trades & forms to get the stuff n that = ?
well who knows? if we JUST LET THEM PUSH US AROUND!!! maybe they will
put charges on our posts or charge us for making forms becuase we "flood"
themm becuase we dont want to sit their and loose our %2 of gold.
and what if they start to put taxes on TRADES!! -the world will all come to an end =|
all these things are posiblilties and do you want these to even BE posiblilities
i mean like COME ON PEOPLE 1-
its a VERTUAL SITE 2- people come on here to get away from the real world.
soo lets put a stop to this =) !
iPancakes , icecreamm__x & -xPenguinStar -ALL SIGN THIS POTISION
thanks for reading =3 -yes you can quote this..
but remember -STRETCHING PAGES IS BADDD!
heart 3nodding domokun pirate
She said it, what else can i say? ;]
Those Who Opposes
pofrickentato
Umm....error: 200,000 is not 2% of 1,000,000. That is 20%. 20,000, or 20k, would be the amount deducted. If you have a 1mil item, then 20k would be no problem. And if your still crying about Gaia trying to help the economy, sell in the exchange forum. I really don't mind the small loss.
Thanks for the correction.
Yes a small lost it might seem but think about it outside the box.
Pretend this started when you started Gaia and you are a Vender. Now add up all those small losses and see how much gold you would have made and items you could have gotten.
Sporkadorka
I've been thinking that Gaia needs a gold sink for a while now, actually. The fact is that unless you're buying your clothes from the shops (which doesn't happen as much, thanks to the Marketplace) no gold is going away. So the amount of gold in Gaia is constantly rising. This is what causes inflation. (And when I say inflation, I don't mean the price of a Kiki rising slowly over time, I mean that sealed letters used to be like 3k (yes, that was a very long time ago) and now they're 10 to 15k. It's like how you used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for a nickel.) There's always more gold, so prices rise. If there was some way for gold to go away forever, inflation would slow.
I applaud the admins for addressing inflation, and I support this tax. It will hopefully stabilize our market's wildly fluctuating prices and help with inflation. Yes, it will be tough for vendors. Yes, it will be chaotic at first. But I think that in the long run, this will be good for Gaia.
So I do not sign.
Yes agreeable. But think bigger; Gaia consist of HOW many people? So even if a few people buy from the MP that doesn't mean gaia doesn't get gold back.
And the value of Gold you talked about is also not the fault of Gaians. If gaia never started the new gold system or daily chance and the games like puzzles, not saying i don't like them,then the value of gold would never had fallen.
The long run is very far so we shall have to wait and see how this works out.
H A R D C O R 3
I am not signing, this is for the better.
The tax causes deflation. Which is highly needed as of a long time ago.|
confused Check your facts before you start hating.
Alrighty, noone is forcing you to sign.
Taxes cause deflation? Have you not notice how much people care about their pixel gold? In the real world yes taxes will cause deflation but this is Gaia its only going to cause inflation.
BUT this is my theory so we shall have to see won't we?
WeraWulf
I disagree.
I really don't think the 2% tax will be that bad. It gets plenty of gold out of the system, which does stall inflation because it's less gold floating around. I don't think people will necessarily raise their prices, but there will be less turnaround. For example, I like to buy and sell monthly letters for at least a 200 gold profit. Now, with the 2% tax, with a 200 gold profit on a 13,000 gold letter, I'd still be losing money. I would probably scale up to only buying letters 400 gold lower than the average price. This means that a lot of profiteers like myself will not be picking up the slightly below average envelopes, which often drove up prices. It will slow down the market, I think, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It will just change market play-style a bit.
The only think I disagree with is that it will not stop overpricing. A person can still list an item with an extra zero tagged onto the price hoping some fast-clicker will make a mistake and buy it. If that happens, the seller still makes more of a profit than if they had listed it at market value. If someone doesn't buy it, on the other hand, they lose nothing, since tax only applies to items sold. Overpricing, therefore, will still happen.
Anyways, as with all things new on Gaia, I think people are going a bit overboard and freaking out way more than necessary. It is not going to ruin the game. Less gold for everyone still equals the same relative buying power. But, let's get word bump back up and running, please?
Nicely said.
Maybe your right, maybe not. Yes i too believe that this will slow down the marketplace fast but i also think it won't help with deflation and inflation.
D3monShadowTheMonarch
((Sorry if you don't want this in your thread. I just finally got sick of seeing people get upset over the tax.))
While I think it's understandable for so many people to be upset over losing 2% of the entire cost of something, I notice a lot of these people don't think it through before saying it's not fair. Yes, there are pretty long rants about how it will only drive prices up, but think about it for a second.
If people cause more inflation, it will only result in a larger amount of gold being taken by the tax. It is a percentage rather than a flat fee for that very reason. Higher pricing in MP items therefor will not work the way everyone thinks it will. It would have if they said they'd charge X amount of gold, but they're not.
And besides, how many people really spend over 500k on an item in the MP before thoroughly searching in the exchange for a direct trade? The idea that you lose 20k from selling something for a million gold is a great point, but seriously, how often have you heard of someone just having random millions to spend in the MP?
So for god's sake, keep the 2% tax. It's better in the long run, whether you realize it or not
The X amount your saying is people rising to sell to get a LOT of gold in one sell; what i am saying is people are going to rise A LITTLE not in order to get a HUGE profit but to get the profit they were hoping for in the first place thefore prices will rise little at a time.
And yes maybe someone won't buy at 500k in MP but selling at 15k and even 20k and loosing 2% of that does add up.
See my shop has sold over 1 mill of stuff and if you took 2% of that you lose quite a sum.
And Those Who Are Undecided.
icy_wyvern
wahmbulance I'm not signing because I'm still neutral about the tax. wahmbulance
So here's my two cents...
Frankly... As a vendor I think the tax really sucks. I got a coco in the
exchange for 114 k and I sold it for 117 k in the marketplace.
But the tax took over 2 k off of the price I was charging. So I didn't
make even 1 k in profit. The realization of the 2% listing fee and what
it would mean hit me like a ton of bricks. Inflation on items like the
kiki were going to be outrageous because people were going to want
profits... I'm questing for a kiki right now. It made me a little sick
inside when I checked the prices for them in the new marketplace.
It had inflated by almost 30 k from the price a couple days ago.
I feel kinda helpless because exchangers base their prices off of the
marketplace. You only save 3-5 k on average when you go to the
exchange. That means that regardless, the price of the
kiki is still going to go up and I'm going to be that much farther away
from my goal.
I can see where we need to filter gold out of the community
some way to stop inflation. But I'm not so sure that this is the best
way to do it. I guess the process is going to be really rough at first
because everyone will have enough gold to buy things at the inflated
prices. And when the gold in circulation of the community becomes
less and less the prices will start to come down a little or at least
stabilize. I'm just guessing that's the idea... so in the long run it may
be better. After everyone gets used to it, maybe it'll work just fine.
But as a vendor and a quester I'm nervous.
A lot of people are asking, "Gaia is just a virtual world... do we really need this tax?"
I'm wondering that myself. But I'm going to wait and see what
happens. I'm still optimistic about it. I don't think the admins would
just put a tax on us to be mean or because they didn't think things
through.
^^ Nicely put and good job on seeing both side...i just wish others would do the same.
Intro//ReasonForThis&QuotesOfGaians//Signatures//Banners//LinksToOtherThreads//Pro&ConsToBothSide
