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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.
Yami_Neko
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.


I use Men's Rights as a term for the combat of sexism against men, which is rather widespread, simply because it's more recognised than a term I might come up with on my own.

I think the reason that there is a separate movement is because the feminists usually try and seek out a safe place, where they can talk about their problems without having to face things like sexism against men. Which is fair, and good, but it's become a point where most active feminists will accuse anyone who brings up Men's Rights Issues (Yes, using it as a term, not literally), of trying to derail and undermine feminist issues.

And there is a pervasive problem in which most people aren't even aware of sexism against men. For example, a year or so ago the Australian Government tried to overhaul the domestic abuse laws in such a way that it basically screwed over the man as much as they possibly could on suspension of domestic abuse. And most people don't accept that there is sexism against men.

And most men who do realise that their is sexism against men only come into that realisation after being screwed over by the system, which causes alot of hate in the majority of the MRA's. Which I feel is sad, because nothing good comes out of that. I personally feel that MRA's and feminist movements should just form together to have one big Egalitarian movement. Because the separation at the moment helps no one
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Yami_Neko
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.


I think the reason that there is a separate movement is because the feminists usually try and seek out a safe place, where they can talk about their problems without having to face things like sexism against men. Which is fair, and good, but it's become a point where most active feminists will accuse anyone who brings up Men's Rights Issues (Yes, using it as a term, not literally), of trying to derail and undermine feminist issues.


That's because barging into a conversation about sexism against women crying "but what about teh menz?!" IS a derailing tactic.
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Removal of the gender binary.
(I love firebirds {trans ams} btw) But on topic, what is gender binary?

Gender binary is the fact that we classify people under two sections when it comes to gender: male and female.
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Yami_Neko
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.


I think the reason that there is a separate movement is because the feminists usually try and seek out a safe place, where they can talk about their problems without having to face things like sexism against men. Which is fair, and good, but it's become a point where most active feminists will accuse anyone who brings up Men's Rights Issues (Yes, using it as a term, not literally), of trying to derail and undermine feminist issues.


That's because barging into a conversation about sexism against women crying "but what about teh menz?!" IS a derailing tactic.


Oh, I agree. But even if you start your own conversation on it, it's seen as a derailing tactic. And how else are you supposed to spread awareness if not by starting conversations? I agree that one shouldn't derail conversations about sexism against women, yet how does one try to talk to feminists about the issue and not get accused to derailing?
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Yeah, I think people need to work towards a compromise there. Whenever women's rights are brought up, people come in screaming about men's rights and how they're totally being ignored. But when men's rights are brought up, people do the same thing about women's rights. What needs to be done, people should work together to bring down the root of ALL sexism: gender roles and stereotypes.
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Yami_Neko
Removal of the gender binary is actually part of feminism's current works (which is why you see Butler writing bout it). The gender binary is a construct, serves essentialist ideas and is a fundamental part of rape culture.


What part of "Post Modern Feminism" doesn't fit into "Feminism's current works"? confused
Yami_Neko
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Removal of the gender binary.


Yup, this.

Wikipedia
"The largest departure from other branches of feminism is the argument that sex is itself constructed through language, a view most notably propounded in Judith Butler's 1990 book, Gender Trouble."


Removal of the gender binary is actually part of feminism's current works (which is why you see Butler writing bout it). The gender binary is a construct, serves essentialist ideas and is a fundamental part of rape culture.


How do we assert that the idea of two genders is "construct," and not in part a result of biology?

If it is a "construct," I'd ask who constructed it and why.
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Firebird v2
Removal of the gender binary.


Yup, this.

Wikipedia
"The largest departure from other branches of feminism is the argument that sex is itself constructed through language, a view most notably propounded in Judith Butler's 1990 book, Gender Trouble."


Removal of the gender binary is actually part of feminism's current works (which is why you see Butler writing bout it). The gender binary is a construct, serves essentialist ideas and is a fundamental part of rape culture.


How do we assert that the idea of two genders is "construct," and not in part a result of biology?

If it is a "construct," I'd ask who constructed it and why.


The two genders are the result of biology. Through the way that humans are biologically programmed to behave, culture developed in such a way as to create a gender binary, serving to create a particular labour and authority division between the genders. No-one really constructed it deliberately, in the sense of they sat down and said: "This is how we are going to classify people." They just thought that is how people were.

The reason it is a construct is that it is a particular classification. A particular way of understanding people. A definition of a value. That someone is treated of a particular category and not of another. All that is needed to change it is for someone to define it so. For someone to conceive: "That person is not of X category, but rather of Y."
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.


I think the reason that there is a separate movement is because the feminists usually try and seek out a safe place, where they can talk about their problems without having to face things like sexism against men. Which is fair, and good, but it's become a point where most active feminists will accuse anyone who brings up Men's Rights Issues (Yes, using it as a term, not literally), of trying to derail and undermine feminist issues.


That's because barging into a conversation about sexism against women crying "but what about teh menz?!" IS a derailing tactic.


Oh, I agree. But even if you start your own conversation on it, it's seen as a derailing tactic. And how else are you supposed to spread awareness if not by starting conversations? I agree that one shouldn't derail conversations about sexism against women, yet how does one try to talk to feminists about the issue and not get accused to derailing?


that's the point: you're not supposed to spread awareness of it, because sexism is all-or-nothing: if you admit it happens on one side, you MUST deny it happening to the other side. it can ONLY affect one group.

feminism defines the language of equality, so equality will be what best serves them. accept that, and maybe they'll let you be a part of the future they seek to create. the other option is to be burned as a heretic
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.
it its problematic, because the gender binary is still present. some males are feminist. I'm a male feminist. It's about equality, and people usually don't get it.
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue

NO! WHAT ABOUT THE WIMANZ?
Yami_Neko
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Yami_Neko
*headesk*
For...
Okay, I haven't posted in ED in forever, but as someone who actually knows what this is, here goes:
Post-feminism is the backlash against feminism that's prevalent in today's discourse. It's the idea that "feminism's work is done" that "sexism is over" and sometimes comes in "What about teh menz" flavors too. It is very real and very problematic.


See, while I don't believe that feminism has done it's job, and there is sexism to be taken care of, the fact of the matter is that there is also sexism against men in today's culture. I don't feel that Feminism should be pushed aside for Men's Rights, or vice versa, but I do feel that people need to stop acting as if Mens Rights aren't an issue


Men's Rights is a very big misnomer. Men's Rights has very, very, very little to do with actual rights that men don't have (a list that is extremely short).

Men's Rights comes out of a misunderstanding of feminism's goals. bell hooks (yes, it is supposed to be uncapitalized) writes that "feminism is a movement to end sexist oppression". Is it sexist that males are considered unfit to be grade-school teachers? You bet your a**, but that's not a Men's Rights thing. Men's Rights is a division that comes straight out of the demonizing of feminism. Yes, men can be feminists, yes, patriarchy hurts men too. But none of those problems need a separate movement.

Further, Men's Rights has a nasty habit of undermining feminist work, getting their rape apologism all over the place and generally bitching about imagined slights.

Soooo .. pretty much like feminism, just with some nouns switched.
Want to make joke about women going back into the kitchen.

Not sure if worth it.
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