Abortion <33

[Rose Mystica]

Laura_Stardust

PetitEspoir

Pro-life.

If you got pregnant and don't want the baby, well then, you should've thought about that before you had unprotected sex.
And also, its killing something.

Except 60% of those obtaining abortions do so because contraception failed.
You can't just assume that pregnant women didn't use something; it all has a failure rate.

Exactly!

I'm pro-choice for a number of reasons.

One, most important, it's none of my business what you're doing over there with your body, and it's none of your business what I'm doing with mine.

Two, some people should simply not be parents. I should know; I'm one of them. Or, simply cannot afford the required healthcare and upkeep of a child.

Three, just a personal note, I find pregnancy to be horrifying and repulsive (I don't give a s**t that it's "a natural process"; nature is pretty damn disgusting a lot of the time).

Four, there may be numerous health issues involving the pregnant woman that cause her to need or want an abortion. My mother was one of them, and if she hadn't aborted that one, my brother and I would not exist, because that pregnancy would have killed her.

So on and so forth.

On a totally random note, why the hell do some people act like pro-choice folks ALWAYS go for an abortion? It's a choice. Going back to my mother as an example, my mother aborted her first pregnancy, then decided to keep the other two because she was ready for children at the time. She made a different choice on different occasions under different circumstances.

[For The Overmind]

Yuki Cross Zero

SummonMoreZiggurats

Yuki Cross Zero

PetitEspoir

Pro-life.

If you got pregnant and don't want the baby, well then, you should've thought about that before you had unprotected sex.
And also, its killing something.

On the one hand, you can get pregnant even if you DO use birth control, because no form of birth control is 100% effective.

On the other hand, people SHOULD know this and not think birth control is totally infallible.

I actually have very little sympathy for unplanned, underage pregnancies for this very reason. If you're going to have sex, you should realize that birth control is not 100% effective, and thus any time you have sex you ARE risking unplanned pregnancy - which is why you should wait until you're old enough to financially support yourself and have at least earned your high-school diploma before you start having sex.

Hi. I don't remember much about you, but I DID remember your name for being crazy somehow. Not sure where or how you demonstrated your crazy, but I'm sure you'll jog my memory if I read on a bit, right?

We were probably in some kind of discussion regarding religion. The general consesus on LD is that anyone who's religious is obviously insane and unreasonable, so that's perhaps where you got your half-baked misconception from 3nodding

Nah, considering my thoughts on the subject, it'd be unlikely. There's a LOT of religious folk in the LD, so there'd be no reason I'd remember just your name for the crazy. Though I think right here you just jogged my memory on why you're crazy. Lil defensive/paranoid. Thanks. ^_^

[Masturbating_Rot_Crow]

Yuki Cross Zero

Satil

I personally find abortion fine and if I were to become pregnant would have one myself. I'm 25 and married, and use protection religiously. If I were to become pregnant then it would be an accident. My husband and I cannot afford a child right now, and it's unlikely we will be able to until he finishes medical school. A pregnancy should never be a punishment and a child should only be born if they are wanted and can be cared for properly. It's better to end a pregnancy before it becomes a child, than to birth a child that will be miserable and abused.

As far as the issue of men goes- yes, they should have some rights. Either they agree to take the baby, pay for everything, and are jailed if they do not follow the contract, then they should be allowed to say if they want the child to be aborted or not. However, the woman can contest that she does not want to carry a child to term and something would be worked out between them in a court of law. Also, if the woman wants to birth the child but the man does not want the child he should be able to relinquish his rights uncontested and have no responsibility for child support. We women can't have it both ways- only our decision and then force him along for the ride. It's unfair.

I have a friend who got some girl pregnant from a one night stand he barely knew. He told her he wanted nothing to do with the child and there was a chance out of 4 other men it was his. It turned out to be his and he's trying to terminate his rights, but the mother refuses and is screaming for money. He even offered to pay for an abortion and she declined. He told her that very minute he would never be involved in the child's life and I personally feel he should not have to.

Very good post. Question: What would you say if the woman wants to abort, but the man wants to keep the child and would be willing to raise it by himself?

He's pretty screwed, huh?
this is why it's Imperative, to discuss these things before having sex. If you don't agree, don't have sex until a different agreement can be made.

[Satil]

Yuki Cross Zero

Satil

Yuki Cross Zero

Satil

I personally find abortion fine and if I were to become pregnant would have one myself. I'm 25 and married, and use protection religiously. If I were to become pregnant then it would be an accident. My husband and I cannot afford a child right now, and it's unlikely we will be able to until he finishes medical school. A pregnancy should never be a punishment and a child should only be born if they are wanted and can be cared for properly. It's better to end a pregnancy before it becomes a child, than to birth a child that will be miserable and abused.

As far as the issue of men goes- yes, they should have some rights. Either they agree to take the baby, pay for everything, and are jailed if they do not follow the contract, then they should be allowed to say if they want the child to be aborted or not. However, the woman can contest that she does not want to carry a child to term and something would be worked out between them in a court of law. Also, if the woman wants to birth the child but the man does not want the child he should be able to relinquish his rights uncontested and have no responsibility for child support. We women can't have it both ways- only our decision and then force him along for the ride. It's unfair.

I have a friend who got some girl pregnant from a one night stand he barely knew. He told her he wanted nothing to do with the child and there was a chance out of 4 other men it was his. It turned out to be his and he's trying to terminate his rights, but the mother refuses and is screaming for money. He even offered to pay for an abortion and she declined. He told her that very minute he would never be involved in the child's life and I personally feel he should not have to.

Very good post. Question: What would you say if the woman wants to abort, but the man wants to keep the child and would be willing to raise it by himself?

I feel he should be allowed to petition the court and be held legally responsible to pay for all medical care and take care of the child afterwards. If he does not honor the contract the child enters foster care-to-adopt homes and he is jailed. If the mother wants an abortion then well, it is her body. I wouldn't want to carry a child for 9 months I wouldn't want to keep. During those 9 months your body is no longer your own and pregnancy can be pretty dangerous for some women. I can't honestly say that a woman should be forced to carry a child when she does not want to, since that is a very basic violation of right to bodily integrity.

While that's true, I think that under the current legal system, it's extremely hypocritical that fathers are forced into child-support for eighteen years whereas it's unthinkable that the woman would undergo nine months of pregnancy.

I do think that forcing a woman to carry a child to term is a violation, but I also think that the mother and father should have some very serious discussions and try their best to make sure both party's needs are accomodated. I don't think it's fair that a woman can just go out and abort a wanted foetus without even discussing it with the father.

I agree with you completely and I do not think a man should be forced to pay child support at all. If he doesn't want the child he should have the right to terminate his rights and move on. I also do not think a woman should be able to show up several years after a child is born screaming "it's yours!" demanding years of back child support without ever offering the man a chance to even know a child of his existed and never having to chance to be involved if he wanted.

Of course the mother and father should have some serious discussion about the situation, but that doesn't always happen and isn't always feasible. I go back to the case of my friend where he was very honest and told the girl he didn't want the child and tried to reach an understanding with her. She refused, and just started screaming "YOU OWE ME".

Again a case for "use a ******** condom". Sure, they break sometimes but when used perfectly it's pretty damn rare that they will fail and every time I've experienced a broken condom it's been very obvious to both my husband and I (only lover it ever happened with- and only twice over 5 years of steady condom use). If you can't imagine yourself having the "pregnancy" talk with someone you sleep with you should always use pregnancy protection in some form.

[june barcarole]

SummonMoreZiggurats

Yuki Cross Zero

SummonMoreZiggurats

Yuki Cross Zero

PetitEspoir

Pro-life.

If you got pregnant and don't want the baby, well then, you should've thought about that before you had unprotected sex.
And also, its killing something.

On the one hand, you can get pregnant even if you DO use birth control, because no form of birth control is 100% effective.

On the other hand, people SHOULD know this and not think birth control is totally infallible.

I actually have very little sympathy for unplanned, underage pregnancies for this very reason. If you're going to have sex, you should realize that birth control is not 100% effective, and thus any time you have sex you ARE risking unplanned pregnancy - which is why you should wait until you're old enough to financially support yourself and have at least earned your high-school diploma before you start having sex.

Hi. I don't remember much about you, but I DID remember your name for being crazy somehow. Not sure where or how you demonstrated your crazy, but I'm sure you'll jog my memory if I read on a bit, right?

We were probably in some kind of discussion regarding religion. The general consesus on LD is that anyone who's religious is obviously insane and unreasonable, so that's perhaps where you got your half-baked misconception from 3nodding

Nah, considering my thoughts on the subject, it'd be unlikely. There's a LOT of religious folk in the LD, so there'd be no reason I'd remember just your name for the crazy. Though I think right here you just jogged my memory on why you're crazy. Lil defensive/paranoid. Thanks. ^_^

Oh, I seem to remember you now - a little aggressive and attention-seeking, like most common LD trolls. Do you have anything to discuss about the topic at hand, or did you just come in here for a little attention?

[Blitzkrieg Beauty]

Yuki Cross Zero

dhayzi

^ I know it's not aimed at me, but I would say that, so long as the woman or baby aren't harmed in the process, she should give birth and then hand over all legal rights to the father.

I'd agree with that too. I find it very hypocritical that a woman will force the father into paying child support for eighteen years, but will scream that it's "barbaric" to have her go through nine months of pregnancy and then hand the kid over.

Yes, but forking over a certain amount of money every month isn't anywhere near as straining as a pregnancy and birth.

What happens if the woman has complications that ruin her life, or even dies in childbirth with a child she doesn't want but is forced to keep because the father does?
A lot of times pregnancy turns into a massive surgery, too.

I wish there was a way for men to get out of paying child support for children they don't want, but there isn't, and in no way is paying your bills comparable to pregnancy.

[For The Overmind]

Yuki Cross Zero

SummonMoreZiggurats

Yuki Cross Zero

SummonMoreZiggurats

Yuki Cross Zero

PetitEspoir

Pro-life.

If you got pregnant and don't want the baby, well then, you should've thought about that before you had unprotected sex.
And also, its killing something.

On the one hand, you can get pregnant even if you DO use birth control, because no form of birth control is 100% effective.

On the other hand, people SHOULD know this and not think birth control is totally infallible.

I actually have very little sympathy for unplanned, underage pregnancies for this very reason. If you're going to have sex, you should realize that birth control is not 100% effective, and thus any time you have sex you ARE risking unplanned pregnancy - which is why you should wait until you're old enough to financially support yourself and have at least earned your high-school diploma before you start having sex.

Hi. I don't remember much about you, but I DID remember your name for being crazy somehow. Not sure where or how you demonstrated your crazy, but I'm sure you'll jog my memory if I read on a bit, right?

We were probably in some kind of discussion regarding religion. The general consesus on LD is that anyone who's religious is obviously insane and unreasonable, so that's perhaps where you got your half-baked misconception from 3nodding

Nah, considering my thoughts on the subject, it'd be unlikely. There's a LOT of religious folk in the LD, so there'd be no reason I'd remember just your name for the crazy. Though I think right here you just jogged my memory on why you're crazy. Lil defensive/paranoid. Thanks. ^_^

Oh, I seem to remember you now - a little aggressive and attention-seeking, like most common LD trolls. Do you have anything to discuss about the topic at hand, or did you just come in here for a little attention?

Me? Aggressive? But I'm just so cuddly. You like cuddling, right?

And I've been discussing the topic for awhile today if you look back. Just saw your name, and of course as an old buddy wanted to catch up! That's not so bad, right? biggrin And if I were seeking a little attention, wouldn't you just be handing that over to me? I think you being crazy is entirely relevant; how can somebody who is not sound of mind seriously debate a subject, and make a responsible decision? You're unfit to even make the decision if you're not entirely sane, wouldn't you think?

[Masturbating_Rot_Crow]

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Yuki Cross Zero

dhayzi

^ I know it's not aimed at me, but I would say that, so long as the woman or baby aren't harmed in the process, she should give birth and then hand over all legal rights to the father.

I'd agree with that too. I find it very hypocritical that a woman will force the father into paying child support for eighteen years, but will scream that it's "barbaric" to have her go through nine months of pregnancy and then hand the kid over.

Yes, but forking over a certain amount of money every month isn't anywhere near as straining as a pregnancy and birth.

What happens if the woman has complications that ruin her life, or even dies in childbirth with a child she doesn't want but is forced to keep because the father does?
A lot of times pregnancy turns into a massive surgery, too.

I wish there was a way for men to get out of paying child support for children they don't want, but there isn't, and in no way is paying your bills comparable to pregnancy.

I wonder if the mother could exempt the father from paying child support. Do you think they could sign a legal agreement that would supersede the regular court way of doing things?

[june barcarole]

Satil

I agree with you completely and I do not think a man should be forced to pay child support at all. If he doesn't want the child he should have the right to terminate his rights and move on. I also do not think a woman should be able to show up several years after a child is born screaming "it's yours!" demanding years of back child support without ever offering the man a chance to even know a child of his existed and never having to chance to be involved if he wanted.

Of course the mother and father should have some serious discussion about the situation, but that doesn't always happen and isn't always feasible. I go back to the case of my friend where he was very honest and told the girl he didn't want the child and tried to reach an understanding with her. She refused, and just started screaming "YOU OWE ME".

Again a case for "use a ******** condom". Sure, they break sometimes but when used perfectly it's pretty damn rare that they will fail and every time I've experienced a broken condom it's been very obvious to both my husband and I (only lover it ever happened with- and only twice over 5 years of steady condom use). If you can't imagine yourself having the "pregnancy" talk with someone you sleep with you should always use pregnancy protection in some form.

You and Masturbating_Rot_Crow both made excellent points about having the discussion beforehand, instead of "Surprise, I'm pregnant! What are your thoughts on babies?" It's too bad that people rarely, if ever discuss these things - especially before, say, a one night stand. In that case, probably just being as careful as possible is the best way to go. If you're in a semi-serious sexual relationship, though, there's no excuse for not hashing out the logistics of what would happen in a problematic situation.

[june barcarole]

SummonMoreZiggurats

Me? Aggressive? But I'm just so cuddly. You like cuddling, right?

And I've been discussing the topic for awhile today if you look back. Just saw your name, and of course as an old buddy wanted to catch up! That's not so bad, right? biggrin And if I were seeking a little attention, wouldn't you just be handing that over to me? I think you being crazy is entirely relevant; how can somebody who is not sound of mind seriously debate a subject, and make a responsible decision? You're unfit to even make the decision if you're not entirely sane, wouldn't you think?

Um...and you're qualified to judge my mental state...how? Did I miss some kind of discussion in which you identified yourself as a medical professional or even someone who's taken a few psychology courses?

You're right, honey, I'm going to quit feeding the troll. Nice catching up with you.

[Blitzkrieg Beauty]

Masturbating_Rot_Crow

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Yuki Cross Zero

dhayzi

^ I know it's not aimed at me, but I would say that, so long as the woman or baby aren't harmed in the process, she should give birth and then hand over all legal rights to the father.

I'd agree with that too. I find it very hypocritical that a woman will force the father into paying child support for eighteen years, but will scream that it's "barbaric" to have her go through nine months of pregnancy and then hand the kid over.

Yes, but forking over a certain amount of money every month isn't anywhere near as straining as a pregnancy and birth.

What happens if the woman has complications that ruin her life, or even dies in childbirth with a child she doesn't want but is forced to keep because the father does?
A lot of times pregnancy turns into a massive surgery, too.

I wish there was a way for men to get out of paying child support for children they don't want, but there isn't, and in no way is paying your bills comparable to pregnancy.

I wonder if the mother could exempt the father from paying child support. Do you think they could sign a legal agreement that would supersede the regular court way of doing things?

There probably is a way around it, but I'm sure it's extensive and complicated.

I think a man should be responsible for helping out financially with whatever the woman chooses to do while she's pregnant. Like, pay for part (or half) of an abortion, help pay for prenatal care, and help pay for the actual birth.
But, after that, he should be able to get out of paying child support. Of course this should be concluded a long time before the child is born.

Also, if the father isn't notified about the pregnancy, he shouldn't be held accountable for it against his will.

If you can't take care of a child by yourself, rethink having one. It's that simple.

[For The Overmind]

Yuki Cross Zero

SummonMoreZiggurats

Me? Aggressive? But I'm just so cuddly. You like cuddling, right?

And I've been discussing the topic for awhile today if you look back. Just saw your name, and of course as an old buddy wanted to catch up! That's not so bad, right? biggrin And if I were seeking a little attention, wouldn't you just be handing that over to me? I think you being crazy is entirely relevant; how can somebody who is not sound of mind seriously debate a subject, and make a responsible decision? You're unfit to even make the decision if you're not entirely sane, wouldn't you think?

Um...and you're qualified to judge my mental state...how? Did I miss some kind of discussion in which you identified yourself as a medical professional or even someone who's taken a few psychology courses?

You're right, honey, I'm going to quit feeding the troll. Nice catching up with you.

Truly was great. Good luck with the crazy. I missed you!

[Masturbating_Rot_Crow]

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Masturbating_Rot_Crow

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Yuki Cross Zero

dhayzi

^ I know it's not aimed at me, but I would say that, so long as the woman or baby aren't harmed in the process, she should give birth and then hand over all legal rights to the father.

I'd agree with that too. I find it very hypocritical that a woman will force the father into paying child support for eighteen years, but will scream that it's "barbaric" to have her go through nine months of pregnancy and then hand the kid over.

Yes, but forking over a certain amount of money every month isn't anywhere near as straining as a pregnancy and birth.

What happens if the woman has complications that ruin her life, or even dies in childbirth with a child she doesn't want but is forced to keep because the father does?
A lot of times pregnancy turns into a massive surgery, too.

I wish there was a way for men to get out of paying child support for children they don't want, but there isn't, and in no way is paying your bills comparable to pregnancy.

I wonder if the mother could exempt the father from paying child support. Do you think they could sign a legal agreement that would supersede the regular court way of doing things?

There probably is a way around it, but I'm sure it's extensive and complicated.

I think a man should be responsible for helping out financially with whatever the woman chooses to do while she's pregnant. Like, pay for part (or half) of an abortion, help pay for prenatal care, and help pay for the actual birth.
But, after that, he should be able to get out of paying child support. Of course this should be concluded a long time before the child is born.

Also, if the father isn't notified about the pregnancy, he shouldn't be held accountable for it against his will.

If you can't take care of a child by yourself, rethink having one. It's that simple.

I absolutely agree.

[june barcarole]

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Masturbating_Rot_Crow

Blitzkrieg Beauty

Yuki Cross Zero

dhayzi

^ I know it's not aimed at me, but I would say that, so long as the woman or baby aren't harmed in the process, she should give birth and then hand over all legal rights to the father.

I'd agree with that too. I find it very hypocritical that a woman will force the father into paying child support for eighteen years, but will scream that it's "barbaric" to have her go through nine months of pregnancy and then hand the kid over.

Yes, but forking over a certain amount of money every month isn't anywhere near as straining as a pregnancy and birth.

What happens if the woman has complications that ruin her life, or even dies in childbirth with a child she doesn't want but is forced to keep because the father does?
A lot of times pregnancy turns into a massive surgery, too.

I wish there was a way for men to get out of paying child support for children they don't want, but there isn't, and in no way is paying your bills comparable to pregnancy.

I wonder if the mother could exempt the father from paying child support. Do you think they could sign a legal agreement that would supersede the regular court way of doing things?

There probably is a way around it, but I'm sure it's extensive and complicated.

I think a man should be responsible for helping out financially with whatever the woman chooses to do while she's pregnant. Like, pay for part (or half) of an abortion, help pay for prenatal care, and help pay for the actual birth.
But, after that, he should be able to get out of paying child support. Of course this should be concluded a long time before the child is born.

Also, if the father isn't notified about the pregnancy, he shouldn't be held accountable for it against his will.

If you can't take care of a child by yourself, rethink having one. It's that simple.

You can actually choose to have the father's name removed/not put on the birth certificate at all, which exempts him from ANY involvement in the child's life - meaning, no visits, no custody, no payments, no ANYTHING.