FINALLY! Wrestling is as GOOD as Attitude/Ruthless ERA!!!

[Melinda619]

I wouldn't say wrestling is as good as it was in the attitude era, but I think the story lines are getting better, which gives me hope for the future (:

[Niji no Jojishi]

Dion Necurat

Going to paraphrase, since I already addressed the list.

Niji no Jojishi

Daniel Bryan, as talented in ring as he is, will never touch that type of stuff and that is going to be problem. In fact, that is one problem in the storylines after he won the WWE Championship. He is on top now but a lot of people began to wonder, "what now?"

...Well now he defends the belt. He's still in a program with the authority. Its merely shifted with the reformation of Evolution taking on Shield.

I remember being in a discussion on this forum about a certain CM Punk in which just defending the belt might not be satisfactory to solidifying long time, top guy, main-eventer status. Im not necessarily disagreeing with anything but I would like to point that out.

Even before the injury, people seemed more excited about the Evolution v Shield storyline as opposed to the Daniel Bryan title defense. Again, this could be credited to the "weak" Bryan casting in the storyline but if that were to trend creatively, the "what now?" would have an even more disappointing answer than the "what now?" after Money In the Bank 2011.

[Lord of the Vine]

Niji no Jojishi

Dion Necurat

Going to paraphrase, since I already addressed the list.

Niji no Jojishi

Daniel Bryan, as talented in ring as he is, will never touch that type of stuff and that is going to be problem. In fact, that is one problem in the storylines after he won the WWE Championship. He is on top now but a lot of people began to wonder, "what now?"

...Well now he defends the belt. He's still in a program with the authority. Its merely shifted with the reformation of Evolution taking on Shield.

I remember being in a discussion on this forum about a certain CM Punk in which just defending the belt might not be satisfactory to solidifying long time, top guy, main-eventer status. Im not necessarily disagreeing with anything but I would like to point that out.

Well there's a difference between the current set-up and what Punk went through. Bryan is still in the main event spotlight (despite what the writers want to convince you of otherwise), whereas Punk was delegated to the upper midcard as champ.

Quote:

Even before the injury, people seemed more excited about the Evolution v Shield storyline as opposed to the Daniel Bryan title defense. Again, this could be credited to the "weak" Bryan casting in the storyline but if that were to trend creatively, the "what now?" would have an even more disappointing answer than the "what now?" after Money In the Bank 2011.

The reason for it is because the desired finish came into being. Not to mention the Evolution vs Shield story is brand new, only starting after WM. It has more hype because its new, like a puppy you just brought home.

[Lord of the Vine]

HissAndPreach

Dion Necurat

Bear in mind that it takes time for a main eventer to really shine. Remember, there was a time when characters like Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, and The Rock were...well, little more than enhancement talent. They developed their craft and with some suggestions and character changes, were able to become the superstar legends they are today.

Its current investment for future success; that's the Daniel Bryan story.

On top of which, being the best talker doesn't mean much; if that were the case, Michaels would not have been a main event player. Neither, for that matter, would Undertaker (though not having seen a lot of his promo work until recently, that remains to be seen, but given he isn't known for his promos...). Rather, its the presence that you present that determines whether or not you'll be successful. Its how Cena has his spot. Bryan has hopped on the momentum train, and while the injury will slow that down some, people are still frothing at the mouth for him (well, between him and Punk, I suppose).

You are absolutely. Bryan could end up being the bigger than Hogan. And then I would stand corrected.

Whether he sticks around or not as a main eventer doesn't change my opinion of him either. I find him boring outside his ring work. That is my opinion. Like how you weren't crazy about CM Punk's title reign. I thought that was the most interesting WWE title reign in the past 10 years, and the only time I didn't spend a title reign wondering who was going to be the next champion. But you are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. Which is why I don't know why everyone got so crude and started insulting me personally because I don't like Daniel Bryan. Name calling was childish and unneeded.

...Well...it isn't opinion that dictates it was lackluster...it was the history.

A title reign isn't about who will get it next; it's about building the champion AND contender.

[Rumblestiltskin]

So, I feel this needs to be addressed... Saying "it's just my opinion" means ******** nothing. This forum is for DISCUSSION about wrestling. If opinions were beyond reproach, all you'd have is people stating things, and no discussion about it. So when I comment on someone's opinion, it's never attacking that opinion...it's that I disagree, and I'm engaging someone so that the forum is actually active for a change.

However, this conversation wasn't about opinions. As I've already said, I was not arguing about an opinion. I was challenging the statements that were made and why they were false...like "Daniel Bryan isn't over." That's not an opinion...that's a statement. It's either true...or it's not. And in this case, it was DEMONSTRABLY not true.

Also, if you want to b***h about name calling and "being attacked," look at your own ******** behavior. I initially responded to your post to just point out some portions of it that I disagreed with...and the YOU started to cop an attitude with me and making bold assumptions about my positions (i.e. anytime you mentioned "indie messiah's" ). Not only that, I at least argued honestly and had some semblance of a clue as to what I was talking about. I wasn't being dishonest (like lying about not saying something which you had said in the same ******** thread) or throwing out terms that I didn't understand (your lack of understanding of what a straw man is) or blatantly making s**t up (like saying that Daniel Bryan isn't over...when he's on TV at the time and the fans are going apeshit). In short...don't be a ******** hypocrite...

[Lord of the Vine]

HissAndPreach

Dion Necurat

...Well...it isn't opinion that dictates it was lackluster...it was the history.

A title reign isn't about who will get it next; it's about building the champion AND contender.

Lackluster is a subjective term. To me it was full of luster.

Except...no, not really.

Punk's reign was delegated to the upper midcard, in pointless feuds where he either wasn't actually being challenged, or never won clean.

History describes the reign as lackluster.

[Niji no Jojishi]

Dion Necurat

HissAndPreach

Dion Necurat

...Well...it isn't opinion that dictates it was lackluster...it was the history.

A title reign isn't about who will get it next; it's about building the champion AND contender.

Lackluster is a subjective term. To me it was full of luster.

Except...no, not really.

Punk's reign was delegated to the upper midcard, in pointless feuds where he either wasn't actually being challenged, or never won clean.

History describes the reign as lackluster.

As someone who recently binge watched all of CM Punk's title defenses, I say that you must be underrating the s**t out of them.

His story flowed very well as a champion and even played off of the fact that Cena was main eventing over him well but then during that exchange, it exposed the fact that everyone respected him and his title reign because every promo cut against him stated that. Cena, Jerry Lawler, and Triple H all stated there respect for the reign. CM Punk was very over at the point and the main reason that Cena was main eventing was because he was fighting big draw people like The Rock and Brock Lesnar.

CM Punk was still putting on great matches and was in great feuds that made sense as it was going in motion. Had great matches with Daniel Bryan, John Cena (multiple times), Triple H,... he stopped Ryback's push, two great feuds with Chris Jericho.

The dude put in work and went against the best people available to face at that time. Sure he feuded with John Lauranitis but that was because his character had legit beef with him so it made sense.

To be honest, CM Punk was like Super Punk in that stretch because no matter how many finishers he took, he just would not lose. He was booked like he was untouchable the whole time and the only thing that would have made it any better is if the matches were placed one match later in the card, which I think is a silly premise at this point.

For instance, Extreme Rules's best match was CLEARLY the Evolution v Shield match and it happened in the middle of the card. Doesnt really concern me where a match is placed and for the life of me, I dont see why it should matter after seeing that main event that happened which was the DB v Kane match and I didnt enjoy it nearly as much as the Evolution v Shield match nor did I care that it wasnt as good. It was still a good match.

[Lord of the Vine]

Niji no Jojishi

To be honest, CM Punk was like Super Punk in that stretch because no matter how many finishers he took, he just would not lose. He was booked like he was untouchable the whole time and the only thing that would have made it any better is if the matches were placed one match later in the card, which I think is a silly premise at this point.

Look at his victories in that stretch. In that time, name any of the times where:

1) He won clean.
2) If so, it was against an opponent that could be considered an equal.

[Rumblestiltskin]

Niji no Jojishi

CM Punk was very over at the point and the main reason that Cena was main eventing was because he was fighting big draw people like The Rock and Brock Lesnar.

Ah, right...I forget how much of draw Kane, the Big Show, and Johnny Ace are... rolleyes Here's the thing...the big draws only have to get people to BUY the PPV...they don't have to main event it. It works at indie shows all the time. They get big names and put them in the middle of the card while highlighting their other talent, and main eventing their CHAMPION. Because the title is supposed to be more important than anything else on the card. When your champion isn't the main event, then it is essentially saying the title is irrelevant. And, as I pointed out at the beginning, the ten times Cena main evented during Punk's run, it's not like his opponents were always big name guys. Most of them were mid carders....One was pretty much retired. In short...quit cherry-picking. You picked out the only two guys who can draw that Cena faced during that time and acted like that's all he faced...when that wasn't the case at all.

[Niji no Jojishi]

Dion Necurat

Niji no Jojishi

To be honest, CM Punk was like Super Punk in that stretch because no matter how many finishers he took, he just would not lose. He was booked like he was untouchable the whole time and the only thing that would have made it any better is if the matches were placed one match later in the card, which I think is a silly premise at this point.

Look at his victories in that stretch. In that time, name any of the times where:

1) He won clean.
2) If so, it was against an opponent that could be considered an equal.

I would go back and look at the matches to see how many clean wins he had but being that he was a face until the year mark was up, my assumptions is that he most of those clean but winning clean is a rare thing in and of itself at the championship defense level.

Also, who would be equal to Punk? How do you gauge that if Cena, HHH, or Jericho isnt equal to him then who is?

[Evil Penguin Overlord]

I don't know what's happened over the last few pages, but I don't remember the "Ruthless Aggression Era" or whatever you want to call it being that good, unless there's some major cherry picking going on where we're only counting the Lesnars, Eddies, Benoits, Edges, etc., and ignoring things like the rest of the godawful midcard that was full of terrible a** wrestlers like Jindrak, Reigns (Luther, I'VE HAD PEAS BEFORE, not Roman), Snitksy, etc. the endless mediocre HHH matches, the endless mediocre JBL matches (outside of maybe two that were actually pretty good), and so on.

Like every era, it had some pretty good matches, but I can't see how it could be considered a standard to hold other eras up to and judge them against it.

[Rumblestiltskin]

Evil Penguin Overlord

I don't know what's happened over the last few pages, but I don't remember the "Ruthless Aggression Era" or whatever you want to call it being that good, unless there's some major cherry picking going on where we're only counting the Lesnars, Eddies, Benoits, Edges, etc., and ignoring things like the rest of the godawful midcard that was full of terrible a** wrestlers like Jindrak, Reigns (Luther, I'VE HAD PEAS BEFORE, not Roman), Snitksy, etc. the endless mediocre HHH matches, the endless mediocre JBL matches (outside of maybe two that were actually pretty good), and so on.

Like every era, it had some pretty good matches, but I can't see how it could be considered a standard to hold other eras up to and judge them against it.

The forum has basically become a giant cherry orchard in that regard...