Kaltros
I don't hate job creators, but I do hate lawbreakers. Many Mexicans are illegals.
Uniformly? There are a number of illegal immigrants because there's work for them that isn't being filled by citizens at the price that's necessary for the desired price of the goods. In other words, there are illegal employers, and there is a market for such illegal employers because people want cheap goods made by people willing to work for lower wages.
But, y'know, in general this just sounds racist. You keep talking about excluding legal Mexican immigration because you say "many Mexicans are illegals"? s**t, so are many Asians.
Kaltros
Maybe that's a plus for you, though. Maybe you like nurturing a new generation of robber barons with no respect for the law.
Well, I like cheap food. So, that's a plus. Moreover, I recognize that breaking one law is not equivalent to breaking every other law. Plenty of people will steal, but would refuse to murder. Some people will jaywalk, but abhor littering. The law and individual values do not always match up, and, as Oliver Wendell Holmes noted some years ago, we should not confuse the question of law with the question of morality.
Kaltros
You're also misrepresenting your own source, there. According to the Fiscal Policy study, 2.0 percent of the Latinos in the labor force are small business owners. For U.S. born overall the rate is 3.3 percent, and for U.S. born whites, the highest among U.S. born groups, it's 3.8 percent. Latinos, along with immigrant blacks, are worse job creators than the average for U.S. born as a whole.
Yet, they're better than U.S. born Latinos and Blacks. I'm not misrepresenting anything. I'm just pointing out that there are a huge number of Latino immigrants, and they fill jobs and spend money, which is good, and create business, which is good. Do they do it less efficiently than other ethnic groups? Sure. But they do it a lot in raw numbers.
Which is what I'm paying attention to. Others create jobs by working, consuming, paying taxes, and so forth, but this is a direct example of job creation.
Kaltros
If you really want to support job growth, you'd do it by supporting those who do better at creating new jobs: U.S. citizens, or white/asian immigrants.
It's kind of becoming clear that U.S. citizens are bad at creating jobs, on a ethnic basis, compared to their immigrant counterparts. I mean, you point out the highest among U.S. is whites, with 3.8%, but European immigrants have a 6.8%. Well, "European," but given the limitations of the categories and the numbers presented, the use of the word white probably includes Arabs, Afghanis, Turks, Persians, and others from the Middle East.
Point is, the best ethnic group among U.S. citizens is still worse than than its counterpart among foreign born.
Kaltros
Stop hating your own source, Ban. You cited it originally, now why don't you listen to it more?
I don't. I'm pointing out the things you're specifically omitting. And a hundred thousand businesses is a huge ******** omission.
Also, just pointing out that there are a variety of businesses, and some specific businesses that have a high portion of immigrant ownership do so because of a particular immigrant group being drawn to that business.
In addition, many of the groups you'd like to go after prosper here in America. There's a neat statistic on page 17 of my source showing how if immigrants stay longer than ten years their chances of becoming business owners tends to go up tremendously. Nigerians, for example, go from a 1% chance in their first decade to a 6% chance beyond that. That's higher that the U.S.-born white statistic by a significant margin. Argentinians go from 5% to 9%, Cubans from 3% to 8%, Iraqis from 1% to 12%. Maybe a lot of that is simply that people who don't succeed immigrate back, or to another country. But, again, point is, they create more business.
Kaltros
And if you hadn't been paying attention, the U.S. unemployment rate is still close to 8 percent. If only 2 percent of Latinos or, at best, nearly 7 percent of white immigrants become small business owners, that means the other 93-98 percent will be competing with U.S. citizens in the labor force for existing jobs.
Seriously? You're using the old "they're taking our jobs" line? How ******** ignorant can you get. You realize that's not a fixed pie, right?
Immigrants create jobs when they get work. They will be competing for existing jobs plus the new jobs created by the growth of capital and new businesses and jobs created thanks to immigration. As my source shows, the 900,000 immigrant owned small businesses employed 4.7 million people. The roughly 50 percent that were not sole proprietor type arrangements employed an average of 11 people. But beyond direct jobs, they create new taxpayers, economic growth, and so forth, which means a greater need for municipal and public service jobs, more jobs in subsidiary businesses or at the places those taxpayers shop and more dollars in general flowing through the economy. That's how the economy works.
Kaltros
What you are calling for is even more economic hardship and making it even more difficult for Americans to find work.
Old rhetorical line, not supported by evidence. After all, immigrants are also starting large businesses, as I pointed out. A number of large, established publicly traded firms that account for another big chunk of employment numbers were also founded by
immigrants or their second generation children. So, what I am calling for is the recognition that this line of argument is basically just racism. Whether they're creating businesses or getting employed, it's good for our economy.
Kaltros
Why do you hate ordinary Americans, Ban?
Immigrants are ordinary Americans. We're a nation of immigrants. These xenophobic nonsense from anti-immigration immigrants about immigrants "taking our jobs" has no basis in fact and runs counter to our great heritage.
But, if your question is, why do I not care when, if this does indeed happen, an individual native born American doesn't get a job because it goes to someone who jumped the fence yesterday? Well, because I believe that hard work and skill pays off. And if the ******** beaner can do the job better or cheaper or whatever, then he's the right guy for the job, isn't he? That's just capitalism at ******** work, and this whiny privileged bullshit about how you deserve a job because you've been here longer is just asking the government to engage in financial protectionism.
So, if by "ordinary Americans," you mean whiny pricks who want the government to keep out skilled laborers so they can keep sucking on the teat of their employer who would rather have said skilled laborer instead of said whiny p***k, it's because I hate Communism. And that's all that is, when the state is acting like a goddamn union rep.