What's your opinion on the passing of the health care plan?

[Origin of Wealth]

Phuket Noodles

Don't want it, don't need it. It's just more extravagant government spending, and it's only exacerbating the issue. Welfare is sooooo good at giving people service after all, I mean, it only has twice the rate of dropping people from it's service as private healthcare.

Drop the barriers to entry to the market to allow purchasing across state lines, and allow greater access for people with preexisting conditions by partially subsidizing high risk pools, along side expansion health savings accounts. The trick is creating incentive for companies to realize they can turn profits from having everyone insured, not thinking that the government is somehow going to cover all the risk.

Proof?

Anyways, won't care unless it passes the senate by some miracle.

[Outraged84]

I hope it goes down in flames. This empty legislation is attempt to toss a few crumbs to the rabble so they will STFU. The only meaningful healthcare reform would be Single payer.

[Peaceful Revolution]

I just wish we had universal healthcare. Pretty much.

[Trorbes]

Outraged84

I hope it goes down in flames. This empty legislation is attempt to toss a few crumbs to the rabble so they will STFU. The only meaningful healthcare reform would be Single payer.

Considering Congress couldn't pass a bill with a public option, I don't think that's very realistic thinking.

[Nevaliah]

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

[Vercingetorix VII]

You're delusional. Republicans as a block are going to move to stop any legislation that helps Obama; especially any legislation that would actually work.

It might conceivably help peel off just a few GOP votes if the bill in question didn't suck spectacularly, though. An actual single payer system would be far better than the stain up for vote right now.

[Vercingetorix VII]

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

[Steven Hawkings]

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

[Vercingetorix VII]

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

Evil is subjective. Everything is subjective, Lao Tzu. And yet, one must make value judgments in life. You're free to disagree with the idea that slavery, repression of women, homophobia, et. al. are evil if you like, but it would make you stupid.

[Steven Hawkings]

Vercingetorix VII

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

Evil is subjective. Everything is subjective, Lao Tzu. And yet, one must make value judgments in life. You're free to disagree with the idea that slavery, repression of women, homophobia, et. al. are evil if you like, but it would make you stupid.

Everything? Your going to have to prove that.

Value jugements? You mean metaphysics I told you not to use in this? As in morals? Odd how this leads to somebody equated to inferiors for lack of this as putting views on others and saying this way as so all other ways leads to this because I have more socially engineered to my favor.

When you could have gone down the thought and saying, "Guess large amounts of slaves for a economy that is static due to a whip driven workforce could lead to a uprising as they outnumber us. Sure must be harsher and call the poor and middle class to ingrain into them of slaves and race as one and the same. Even though we hold back industry with what could take less time, I'd rather not make payment into a more expensive system that cost me more overtime of what I do now,, and the method of how I use cotton as my cash crop at the full expense of my land, for the goal of making money and exporting to the UK. But you know I rather work on a system that is cheaper in short term than long term. At the cost of paranoia and revolts."

Or , "Gee what does it matter anyway if sexuality is allowed they all are fun things to study and poke at under a microscope or in a lab, or even in a large office room, as it helps the economy to exploit a new market, just like the dubious heterosexuals, who are already feeding on the troughs of the media; better to have more than to exclude less. Gay weddings, gay ect of marriage=profit. Also excluding people means less of labor force and were we need jobs, and more productivity, and same for those females we gave jobs to that were confined to men during WWII, though dam those governments for fair laws for earnings."

Same for women, it was good for the state to get money, didn't matter if that state was on the forefront, just felt a need a new exploit in money is good enough for them.

And no, I said this out of being curious.

[Lieutenant_Charon]

Vercingetorix VII

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

Evil is subjective. Everything is subjective, Lao Tzu. And yet, one must make value judgments in life. You're free to disagree with the idea that slavery, repression of women, homophobia, et. al. are evil if you like, but it would make you stupid.

Just a warning before you continue, Vercingetorix. Steven here hates humanity.

Figured I should let you know.

[Vercingetorix VII]

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

Evil is subjective. Everything is subjective, Lao Tzu. And yet, one must make value judgments in life. You're free to disagree with the idea that slavery, repression of women, homophobia, et. al. are evil if you like, but it would make you stupid.

Everything? Your going to have to prove that.

Value jugements? You mean metaphysics I told you not to use in this? As in morals? Odd how this leads to somebody equated to inferiors for lack of this as putting views on others and saying this way as so all other ways leads to this because I have more socially engineered to my favor.

When you could have gone down the thought and saying, "Guess large amounts of slaves for a economy that is static due to a whip driven workforce could lead to a uprising as they outnumber us. Sure must be harsher and call the poor and middle class to ingrain into them of slaves and race as one and the same. Even though we hold back industry with what could take less time, I'd rather not make payment into a more expensive system that cost me more overtime of what I do now,, and the method of how I use cotton as my cash crop at the full expense of my land, for the goal of making money and exporting to the UK. But you know I rather work on a system that is cheaper in short term than long term. At the cost of paranoia and revolts."

Or , "Gee what does it matter anyway if sexuality is allowed they all are fun things to study and poke at under a microscope or in a lab, or even in a large office room, as it helps the economy to exploit a new market, just like the dubious heterosexuals, who are already feeding on the troughs of the media; better to have more than to exclude less. Gay weddings, gay ect of marriage=profit. Also excluding people means less of labor force and were we need jobs, and more productivity, and same for those females we gave jobs to that were confined to men during WWII, though dam those governments for fair laws for earnings."

Same for women, it was good for the state to get money, didn't matter if that state was on the forefront, just felt a need a new exploit in money is good enough for them.

And no, I said this out of being curious.

Newsflash:

Everything is a value judgment. Good and bad? Value judgments. Harm or benefit? Value judgment. True or untrue? Value judgment. The very assumption that survival is beneficial or desirable, and therefore that self-destructive acts are undesirable, is a value judgment.

Every concept or idea that can be expressed relies upon fundamental assumptions that are ultimately arbitrary. Logic doesn't work without premises, Aristotle.

@Charon:

Noted.

[Steven Hawkings]

Vercingetorix VII

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Steven Hawkings

Vercingetorix VII

Nevaeh-Akari

I am an Obama supporter, but I feel like he's going about his health care plan wrong.

Obama should have put more time into planning it out, speaking with doctors, patients, and people that would be directly affected by the bill. I also think that there should have been more communication between parties and that there should have been more time spent on the bill. If the Liberals and Conservatives learned how to find something to agree on in the middle, we'd be better off. Neither side is right, so why do we pretend that one side is right and the other is wrong. I think if the Conservatives made their own bill, and if Washington can actually be bipartisan, and if they took the strong points from both of the bills, then I think that it could really work. Sadly, Washington and politics will never work this way, and that is way we're in such a huge mess.

Fallacy of the middle ground. You're assuming both sides are right, even equally right. But in many cases the middle ground is simply a compromise with evil, as in slavery, Jim Crow, womens' rights, discrimination against gays, censorship, laws allowing the denial of healthcare to sick patients, etc..

Evil is subjective, how do you make this, "evil"? Do you rally your feelings of the masses saying this? If so your appealing to emotion. And no metaphyics on this issue either.

Evil is subjective. Everything is subjective, Lao Tzu. And yet, one must make value judgments in life. You're free to disagree with the idea that slavery, repression of women, homophobia, et. al. are evil if you like, but it would make you stupid.

Everything? Your going to have to prove that.

Value jugements? You mean metaphysics I told you not to use in this? As in morals? Odd how this leads to somebody equated to inferiors for lack of this as putting views on others and saying this way as so all other ways leads to this because I have more socially engineered to my favor.

When you could have gone down the thought and saying, "Guess large amounts of slaves for a economy that is static due to a whip driven workforce could lead to a uprising as they outnumber us. Sure must be harsher and call the poor and middle class to ingrain into them of slaves and race as one and the same. Even though we hold back industry with what could take less time, I'd rather not make payment into a more expensive system that cost me more overtime of what I do now,, and the method of how I use cotton as my cash crop at the full expense of my land, for the goal of making money and exporting to the UK. But you know I rather work on a system that is cheaper in short term than long term. At the cost of paranoia and revolts."

Or , "Gee what does it matter anyway if sexuality is allowed they all are fun things to study and poke at under a microscope or in a lab, or even in a large office room, as it helps the economy to exploit a new market, just like the dubious heterosexuals, who are already feeding on the troughs of the media; better to have more than to exclude less. Gay weddings, gay ect of marriage=profit. Also excluding people means less of labor force and were we need jobs, and more productivity, and same for those females we gave jobs to that were confined to men during WWII, though dam those governments for fair laws for earnings."

Same for women, it was good for the state to get money, didn't matter if that state was on the forefront, just felt a need a new exploit in money is good enough for them.

And no, I said this out of being curious.

Newsflash:

Everything is a value judgment. Good and bad? Value judgments. Harm or benefit? Value judgment. True or untrue? Value judgment. The very assumption that survival is beneficial or desirable, and therefore that self-destructive acts are undesirable, is a value judgment.

Every concept or idea that can be expressed relies upon fundamental assumptions that are ultimately arbitrary. Logic doesn't work without premises, Aristotle.

@Charon:

Noted.

That's not everything. You said, "everything". You did not address value-neutral. This is not, "everything".

[Vercingetorix VII]

Steven Hawkings

Every concept or idea that can be expressed relies upon fundamental assumptions that are ultimately arbitrary. Logic doesn't work without premises, Aristotle.

@Charon:

Noted.

That's not everything. You said, "everything". You did not address value-neutral. This is not, "everything".

Your effort to intimidate me with excessive and grotesque stupidity has failed.