What is the solution to Syria?

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Goldgato

Tactical Leg Sweep

Wendigo

A really big war (encompassing major powers at the least including the United States, Russia, and China), that will last a long time, hurt a lot of people, and potentially destroy the world.

Or, something stupid and temporary.

This. A solution is rolling through and killing everyone involved. Personally I'd support ******** up both Assad AND the rebels since I don't trust that us arming these goddamn people is NOT going to almost instantaneously turn around the second Assad and the Alawites are uninstalled. So I'd say just kick the s**t out of both sides, let the Syrians vote and leave the s**t. Obviously this is a pretty dumb plan considering aside from not having any ******** money to do it, Russia and or China may or may not get their panties bunched, and then we'd ******** them up and probably get all hurt ourselves. So it's A solution, but probably not the best.

The problem is that people react to having democracy forced on them by an outside force in about the same way they react to anything being forced on them by an outside force. The only democracies that have ever worked to establish stability and security are democracies that have been built by their people. It's one thing to give aid to rebels if we believe they have a better chance at promoting stability and security for their people than the current administration, but a foreign army with a forced ideology is a foreign army with a forced ideology. Remember how well Iraq and Afghanistan turned out after we "liberated" their countries? Democracy means "rule of the people" for a reason.

Fair enough, but then again, we are imposing an ideology by arming the rebels, albeit second handedly. So I wouldn't be so quick to act like arming the rebels is a strong alternative to rolling in and getting the blood on our hands ourselves. On that note, yes, your point is well taken on Afghanistan and Iraq; I think if you're supporting the idea of arming the rebels you're missing your own warning sign slapping you in your face, considering arming Iraqis and Afghans has not historically worked out well for us either.

[Dermezel2]

Goldgato

The only democracies that have ever worked to establish stability and security are democracies that have been built by their people.

Germany and Japan.

Goldgato

It's one thing to give aid to rebels if we believe they have a better chance at promoting stability and security for their people than the current administration, but a foreign army with a forced ideology is a foreign army with a forced ideology.

All we have to do is establish no-fly zones.

[Lela XX]

Tranquil Surrogate

Syria is such a multidimensional problem that's incredibly tragic and difficult to predict. What started as a simply defined Middle Eastern uprising similar to that of Libya has now become complex beyond anything we could've imagined. It's not just the Free Syrian Army against the Syrian state, the increasingly powerful extremist splinters of Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra are also fighting alongside them (though operating independently). No doubt it's because they see the opportunity to exert some influence over whatever order rises out of the chaos. The war is essentially a game for these factions.

Meanwhile, the unethical tactics of the terrorist factions are making it increasingly difficult for the FSA to gain support from the West to the point that, now that many of the groups have pledged allegiance to Al-Qaeda, military intervention is almost certainly out the window. This conflict will resolve itself in time, but Syria will likely never recover from this. Even if Bashar-Al Assad loses to the rebellion, it will become a free-for-all among the factions to gain power and the FSA will be locked in a constant struggle to maintain control.

What are your thoughts on this ED? Is there any hope for the future of Syria? Or is Syria inevitably going to be torn apart by the many radically different factions vying for power in a country plunged into post-autocratic anarchy?

I heard that the uprisings in Libya, Egypt etc were CIA controlled operations in collaboration with Britain, Saudi Arabia and probably Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood has been a fascist org since the time of Hitler and the intelligence agencies funnel money and other aid (arms etc) to them and other "insurgents" covertly. Saudi Arabia collaborates because it helps them spread their Wahhabi religious sect, which is among the most terrorist religions among Muslims. Britain and the U.S. pretend that the Sunnis and Shiites are terrorists, but it's mostly the Wahhabis. The 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but Bush invaded Iraq, not Saudi Arabia. Because they've had a plan since before Bush's election to conquer the Middle East. The plan was called Project for a New American Century. It's an evil plan by our increasingly evil govt IMO.

[Wendigo]

Syria was always complicated, because Syria has powerful allies whom we can't simply ignore. Same reason North Korea's so complicated. And many of the same allies.

International groups like Al Qaeda, the Ba'ath party, or the Muslim Brotherhood, of course, are automatically interested in conflicts in the Middle East. Moreso when it's a complicated conflict that we can't fully commit to militarily.

[God Emperor Baldur]

Kazuma

Tranquil Surrogate

.What are your thoughts on this ED? Is there any hope for the future of Syria?

Yes. Provided we let Assad take care of his al-Qaeda infestation without interfering.

And what if he can't? The numbers show casualties at 50/50

[TANRailgun]

My concern is the fact that Hamas is now directly involved...they are now essentially engaged in a proxy war with the US (or so they can claim) and we don't want that, it legitimizes them. The best solution to avoid this blowing up in our faces (both literally and figuratively) is to royally spank both Bashar al-Assad and Hamas.


I don't think we should have gotten involved, but now that we are, we need to end it quickly and decisively. No half-assing it.

[Omnileech]

Any government that would kill its own citizens with banned, poison gas isn't worth protecting.

[Wraith of Azrael]

It depends, do you want another Cold War?

Because we got Al-Assad
We got Russia
We got Hezbollah
We got Al Qaeda
We got Iran
I think you see the problem here...

You're looking at another great big problem...
And with America and the EU deciding to arm the rebels you've basically got a big bloody mess
Now...

Basically, Syria doesn't matter...
It's only the start of the problem and the possible beginning of another great big proxy war.

The only thing that seems viable right now would be a peace process, possibly involving China maybe or others.

The point is, it has to disarm the conflict between the West and the Rest for it to have any tangible effect. Otherwise we're back to the Cold War.

[Wendigo]

You say that like the Cold War ended, Wraith. The names may have changed, but the power relationships are the same. Both Russia and China have ties with Syria going back decades. (Which Syria has at times used to play one against the other to get what it wants, since Russia and China were not always the best of friends.)

[Six Echo 2]

U.S intervention should be out of the question, It's not our job to shape their future especially knowing they don't want us to. The fact that Al-Qaeda has a presence there also backs the reason of why the U.S shouldn't get involved.

People over there are dying: Yes that's very true but dropping bombs and potentially killing more people isn't the best solution cause 1 misfire ends with everyone burning U.S flags and being all pissed off only fueling the fire for more extremism.

[Six Echo 2]

Lela XX

Tranquil Surrogate

Syria is such a multidimensional problem that's incredibly tragic and difficult to predict. What started as a simply defined Middle Eastern uprising similar to that of Libya has now become complex beyond anything we could've imagined. It's not just the Free Syrian Army against the Syrian state, the increasingly powerful extremist splinters of Al-Qaeda and Al-Nusra are also fighting alongside them (though operating independently). No doubt it's because they see the opportunity to exert some influence over whatever order rises out of the chaos. The war is essentially a game for these factions.

Meanwhile, the unethical tactics of the terrorist factions are making it increasingly difficult for the FSA to gain support from the West to the point that, now that many of the groups have pledged allegiance to Al-Qaeda, military intervention is almost certainly out the window. This conflict will resolve itself in time, but Syria will likely never recover from this. Even if Bashar-Al Assad loses to the rebellion, it will become a free-for-all among the factions to gain power and the FSA will be locked in a constant struggle to maintain control.

What are your thoughts on this ED? Is there any hope for the future of Syria? Or is Syria inevitably going to be torn apart by the many radically different factions vying for power in a country plunged into post-autocratic anarchy?

I heard that the uprisings in Libya, Egypt etc were CIA controlled operations in collaboration with Britain, Saudi Arabia and probably Israel. The Muslim Brotherhood has been a fascist org since the time of Hitler and the intelligence agencies funnel money and other aid (arms etc) to them and other "insurgents" covertly. Saudi Arabia collaborates because it helps them spread their Wahhabi religious sect, which is among the most terrorist religions among Muslims. Britain and the U.S. pretend that the Sunnis and Shiites are terrorists, but it's mostly the Wahhabis. The 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, but Bush invaded Iraq, not Saudi Arabia. Because they've had a plan since before Bush's election to conquer the Middle East. The plan was called Project for a New American Century. It's an evil plan by our increasingly evil govt IMO.

I think that's some hardcore conspiracy theory.

[God Emperor Baldur]

There is no solution. They will fight until nothing is left.

[Melodee Lee]

As of today, it's a bloody stalemate. Victories are going back and forth non-stop, and, unless one side can break the stalemate sometime soon, the war is going to end on an unequal note. Potentially setting up another war in the future.

[Bane of Ezekiel]

Nuke something.