US Lawmakers consider NAFTA repeal

[N3bu]

Wendigo

It is beyond me how anybody can see something other than blatant exploitation of Mexico's supply of cheap labor in NAFTA. The kind of free trade I could actually support would necessitate completely open borders, such that a Mexican worker would be functionally identical to an American worker from an employer's point of view. Since that is not the case, and a Mexican worker is simply considered a cheaper, disposable substitute for an American worker, NAFTA is a fire-breathing monster that should be beheaded as soon as humanly possible.

"NAFTA" is supposed to make that happen though. By supplying Mexican workers with jobs they wouldn't otherwise have they're wealth increases bringing with it better education.

Bugger me If I know what's done and ******** that up though.

[Wendigo]

White Wolf of Nebu

Wendigo

It is beyond me how anybody can see something other than blatant exploitation of Mexico's supply of cheap labor in NAFTA. The kind of free trade I could actually support would necessitate completely open borders, such that a Mexican worker would be functionally identical to an American worker from an employer's point of view. Since that is not the case, and a Mexican worker is simply considered a cheaper, disposable substitute for an American worker, NAFTA is a fire-breathing monster that should be beheaded as soon as humanly possible.

"NAFTA" is supposed to make that happen though. By supplying Mexican workers with jobs they wouldn't otherwise have they're wealth increases bringing with it better education.

Bugger me If I know what's done and ******** that up though.

"NAFTA" is supposed to do no such thing. It's intended to be beneficial to the employer, who no longer has to obey stricter labor and environmental regulations and fork over larger paychecks. The work goes to the guys who work the longest hours in the worst conditions for the lowest pay. The pay stays with the guys who sign those paychecks, and does not go to Mexico to enrich peoples' lives and buy them educations for their children, which would undercut the whole system.

[The Red Herring]

Yeah, I mean NAFTA has exploited workers so much that people working in the Maquiladora zone, and in the export oriented maquiladora's, are the ONLY people in the ENTIRE country to have their wages back at pre 1995 levels after the tequila crisis. The rest of the country, sector by sector, has stagnated in growth and failed to grow back after the tequila crisis BESIDES FOR THE AREAS THAT ARE ALLOWED FREE TRADE UNDER NAFTA. Per capita consumption of food, beef, milk, have shot through the roof at a rate of TWICE that of pre-NAFTA conditions ACROSS THE COUNTRY due to lower tariff rates.

Not only should NAFTA not be repealed, it should be expanded to include the entire country, and include less stringent conditions on what classifies as a "Mexican made good," call for a cutting of US agriculture subsidies on corn, allow the mexican government to subsidize more then it's currently able to under the regional provisions, and include a guest worker and faster nationalization process for low and unskilled labor.

[Wendigo]

It's interesting that you bring up agriculture, given how weakly the Mexican agricultural sector performs competing against American firms for price or quantity. That's where a lot of illegal immigration has been coming from - out-of-work farmers looking for jobs that can support them.

Not to mention the humongous, verminous pits of pig waste that we like to spread around the countryside, and the no effect whatsoever they have on public health.

[The Red Herring]

Wendigo

It's interesting that you bring up agriculture, given how weakly the Mexican agricultural sector performs competing against American firms for price or quantity. That's where a lot of illegal immigration has been coming from - out-of-work farmers looking for jobs that can support them.

Not to mention the humongous, verminous pits of pig waste that we like to spread around the countryside, and the no effect whatsoever they have on public health.

NAFTA stopped the Mexican government from being able to subsidize small rural farmers that use labor intensive farming methods. However, it only had marginal cuts in the US subsidy rate for it's capital intensive farming. Given also how NAFTA really only created an FTA for the northern part of Mexico, the results when it comes to agriculture in Mexico have been atrocious. I'll easily admit this, but it's not a fault of NAFTA so much as US law makers continually supporting agriculture in the mid-west since it is crucial to stay in office.

This is why I acknowledged Mexico should be able to subsidize at least small-scale farmers, and include an easier nationalization process for migrants who might have lost their job in Mexico due to NAFTA. We like to talk about the free flow of capital, but not labor, which is just as important.

[Amongst_many]

And then there's corn subsidieeeeeeeeees

[Appel Juice]

AnarchoPhiliac

Goddammit.

********. No.

Repealing this would make us end up with the burden of extra tariffs on goods we wish to ship to the United States, which is a huge market. Not to mention this would spark a trade war.

Hell ******** no.

At least, hell ******** no until we diversify the partners we trade with.

Which would cause us to have to make more stuff in house. How horrible that would be. rolleyes

[Disa Uniflora]

Save the debate, our MPs aren't especially concerned and neither am I. Even if something were to come of it, by the end of the ******** up square dance that would ensue in both our governments there'd be something to take its place in some measure.

By the by, free trade between states without regard for the people of those states is both incorrigibly reckless and stupid. If you wish to deregulate such trade without also improving financial and social protections for those masses so affected then you're simply counter-balancing one form of potential prosperity against another form of potential abuse.

On the other hand, if you think that globalization and regional free trade aren't already firmly rooted in the system and that you can just take a few steps back in time to those magical protectionist days of yore then you're clearly out of your mind.

[Wendigo]

The Red Herring

NAFTA stopped the Mexican government from being able to subsidize small rural farmers that use labor intensive farming methods.

It did more than that, it priced small farmers right out of the market. The people who formerly provided that intensive labor do still need to eat. Not to mention that their families need to eat, and they need to keep a roof over their heads. One major solution has been sending a little bit home every week. Which is rather a lot like shifting the thankless unskilled labor from your own land into a pilgrimage to follow fruit-picking season.

[Cory Shallow]

I can see the US tearing into Canadian agriculture. What with their subsidies.
Bitches.

[Vercingetorix VII]

I hear an argument for restructuring NAFTA with a centralized mechanism for fixing economic disparities and abuses of the system, not an argument for getting rid of NAFTA.

[N3bu]

Appel Juice

AnarchoPhiliac

Goddammit.

********. No.

Repealing this would make us end up with the burden of extra tariffs on goods we wish to ship to the United States, which is a huge market. Not to mention this would spark a trade war.

Hell ******** no.

At least, hell ******** no until we diversify the partners we trade with.

Which would cause us to have to make more stuff in house. How horrible that would be. rolleyes

L2 Specialise.

Trade isn't a bad thing, it just involves swollowing yoru pride and admitting you can't make and produce everything.

[AnarchoPhiliac]

White Wolf of Nebu

Appel Juice

AnarchoPhiliac

Goddammit.

********. No.

Repealing this would make us end up with the burden of extra tariffs on goods we wish to ship to the United States, which is a huge market. Not to mention this would spark a trade war.

Hell ******** no.

At least, hell ******** no until we diversify the partners we trade with.

Which would cause us to have to make more stuff in house. How horrible that would be. rolleyes

L2 Specialise.

Trade isn't a bad thing, it just involves swollowing yoru pride and admitting you can't make and produce everything.

BUT BUT

AMERICA

BEST

AWESOME

AT

EVERYTHING

[Comrade Texada Wolf]

so its basically


but replace British with American EU with NAFTA and the Far-right White nationalist with the....Centre-left?

[DanskiWolf]

Comrade Texada Wolf

but replace British with American EU with NAFTA and the Far-right White nationalist with the....Centre-left?

It's always amusing when the Left and far-Right intersect on an issue, particularly their knee-jerk reaction to economic liberalism.