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Demonic Fairy

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Recidivism: "A tendency to relapse into a previous condition or mode of behavior; especially : relapse into criminal behavior." The recidivism rate of a country is, for those unaware and who don't feel like Googling it, the rate at which criminals end up back in prison after having served time already.

In the United States, the recidivism rate is an astounding two thirds. In other words, about two thirds of people who end up in a U.S. prison will be back again. Clearly, there's a problem, here. The purpose of prison isn't just to incarcerate people who commit crimes; if that were the case, we would never release them. At the end of the day, we want them to come back into society and never commit crimes again. It's not just for their own good, but the good of society. Unfortunately, it seems we're not doing a very good job of rehabilitating these people. This is a huge problem, because we spend billions of dollars annually keeping prisoners locked up.

For a little perspective, let's look at some other countries. Canada's recidivism rate is less than half. In Norway, it's a mere one fifth. There are a multitude of factors to take into consideration, here. Culture, population density, the laws themselves, and so on and so forth. No one is suggesting that we just copy-paste the entire system and call it a day. However, there are certain elements that I think we should look at to help us reevaluate our current policies.

One of them is punitive procedures versus rehabilitative procedures. In the U.S., we tend to lean towards punitive policies. "If we punish them hard enough, they won't do it again, because they won't want to come back to prison." This is known as the rational choice theory. However, this idea is flawed. For one, not everybody who commits a crime is a rational person. Even if they ordinarily are, there are people who commit crimes of passion, where they aren't going to think to themselves, "Hmm, if I do this thing, what are the odds that I'm going to go to prison?"

There's also the issue of prison "creating hardened criminals out of first-time offenders." I could be wrong, but I seem to recall reading that this problem is the greatest at the medium-security level, where a lot of gangs tend to form, and most fights tend to occur. Solitary confinement is probably the worst in terms of actually changing people for the better. A lack of contact tends to seriously impair their social skills, and can lead to mental health problems like depression.

In general, we've come to adopt a "toughen up on crime" approach, even though the rehabilitative one has proven itself more successful time and time again. About 15-20% of all prisoners are mentally ill, and though we've slowly come to realize the importance of mental healthcare, we're still reluctant to put resources into hiring more psychologists and psychiatrists. Those who are employed in prisons are frequently overwhelmed with caseloads. Those who get out and want to live honest lives are in for a rude awakening, too, because businesses don't want to hire ex-criminals, perhaps with good reason. However, now you run into the problem of these people not being able to get a job, which has the potential to push them back into a life of crime just to get by.

Conclusion/TL;DR Version: It seems that the statistics don't seem to matter; people in the U.S. demand to see prisoners in unpleasant conditions because we have a strong belief in retribution, even if it's causing more harm than good in the long run. So for this reason, I ask ED for opinions on the matter. You don't have to answer the questions; I'm just asking them to get you thinking, in case you're feeling uninspired.

1. Do you place more value on retribution, or rehabilitation? Theoretically speaking, which would you choose if you had to pick one exclusively? Does your opinion on this matter change depending on the crime?

2. On the same note as the above, if a rapist went to prison, but they could guarantee that they would never offend again after a mere three two or three years in rehab, would you be satisfied with letting them out to live ordinary lives so early?

3. Do businesses have a right to know whether or not the people they're hiring have a criminal record? Why or why not?

4. What do you think needs to be changed, if anything, to lower the U.S. recidivism rate? Do you believe it's just policy that needs to be changed, or do you think we're in need of a complete cultural overhaul?

Plus anything else you feel is worth mentioning, of course. I post this with an open mind; no one will be set to ignore for disagreeing, no matter what their reasons. Closing yourself off to new ideas - however ridiculous they may sound - is just a slippery slope into a cesspool of ignorance.

Omnipresent Warlord

Based on my experiences in my state I would say that Americans neither embrace punishing or rehabilitating criminals and instead prefer, for the most part, with just warehousing them away from people and the more punitive consequences: rape, abuse, lack of medical facilities, corrupt guards comes from the sheer magnitude of people we incarcerate rather than a design of the prison system. Simply putting people away without addressing why they are criminals doesn't seem to be an effect way to get them to stop being criminals.

1) I place more value on rehabilitation, because I don't care what is moral or amoral. I'm concerned with what reduces the crime rate and also doesn't cost an excessive amount of money.

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

3) It depends on the nature of the crime. The employer should know if someone is a sex offender if they are applying for a job where they would interact with children.

4) Eliminating mandatory minimum sentences, reducing penalties for non-violent drug offenders or changing those penalties for a rehab program would be my first guess. We have a lot of prisoners compared to other countries.
1. Rehabilitation, absolutely.

2. In the hypothetical situation where that would be guaranteed, yes, I would be satisfied with that. But to be fair, it's probably relevant to note that I've never been raped, and I don't want to appear dismissive of those who have.

3. Yes if it is a violent crime, but they should not be able to exclude that person from being hired unless there is a good reason. A recovered child molester shouldn't be hired at a day care even if they have gone through extensive rehab, but there's no reason they shouldn't be a mechanic, for example. The purpose of information about past violent crimes should be to make sure they are not put in high risk situations, for their own good as much as for others.

4. I think we should focus more on rehabilitation instead of punishment, and eliminate the use of private for-profit prisons.
Ringoringa


Plus anything else you feel is worth mentioning, of course. I post this with an open mind; no one will be set to ignore for disagreeing, no matter what their reasons. Closing yourself off to new ideas - however ridiculous they may sound - is just a slippery slope into a cesspool of ignorance.

Most crime just isn't wrong. We need to be rehabilitating the establishment, not the people.
Omnileech

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

I'm a criminal. I consume, purchase, transport, manufacture, sell, and store drugs. Problem?
1. we let them out.

2. a lot of it is drug related.

so... make all drugs legal, and don't let people out that should be inside.

Omnipresent Warlord

banndmanswag02
Omnileech

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

I'm a criminal. I consume, purchase, transport, manufacture, sell, and store drugs. Problem?


Yeah, I guess so. A slight problem. I have no love of drug addicts or people who sell chemically addictive substances to others. So if you end up in the court system because of your lifestyle and choices I wouldn't feel sorry for you regardless of whatever justification you have made for yourself.
Omnileech
banndmanswag02
Omnileech

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

I'm a criminal. I consume, purchase, transport, manufacture, sell, and store drugs. Problem?


Yeah, I guess so. A slight problem. I have no love of drug addicts or people who sell chemically addictive substances to others. So if you end up in the court system because of your lifestyle and choices I wouldn't feel sorry for you regardless of whatever justification you have made for yourself.

I don't touch addictive substances.
banndmanswag02
Omnileech
banndmanswag02
Omnileech

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

I'm a criminal. I consume, purchase, transport, manufacture, sell, and store drugs. Problem?


Yeah, I guess so. A slight problem. I have no love of drug addicts or people who sell chemically addictive substances to others. So if you end up in the court system because of your lifestyle and choices I wouldn't feel sorry for you regardless of whatever justification you have made for yourself.

I don't touch addictive substances.

Non-addictive illegal drugs, please help my ignorance, what kind of things are those? Also I hope you are informing your consumers of possible side effects before they get the drug.


But back to the topic as a whole.

For any crime where a person is harmed or property is stolen or destroyed, amends must be made. I do not consider someone rehabilitated until they at least desire to make up for what they have done, even if they can not truly compensate their victim.

To sum up my feelings between the words rehabilitate and retribution, I would say rehabilitate. Though bear in mind I have a very strict definition of what rehabilitation would be.

I think a business should know what wrongs someone has done if they are relevant to the position the person is trying to get. Especially if they are not considered rehabilitated.

I think part of the problem lies in the culture and other parts lie in the laws. The part of the culture like gangs that encourages illegal behavior and the part of the culture that glorifies horrific actions. Then there are the laws that keep someone from finding a job with decent pay even if what they did has nothing to do with the job. Leading them to be more likely to return to the crimes they originally did, especially if those crimes did lead to an income.
Bortelex
banndmanswag02
Omnileech
banndmanswag02
Omnileech

2) I'd be for that. I'd like a lot of sincere guilt from the offender for what they did and a desire for restitution, but I'd settle for one less criminal.

I'm a criminal. I consume, purchase, transport, manufacture, sell, and store drugs. Problem?


Yeah, I guess so. A slight problem. I have no love of drug addicts or people who sell chemically addictive substances to others. So if you end up in the court system because of your lifestyle and choices I wouldn't feel sorry for you regardless of whatever justification you have made for yourself.

I don't touch addictive substances.

Non-addictive illegal drugs, please help my ignorance, what kind of things are those? Also I hope you are informing your consumers of possible side effects before they get the drug.


But back to the topic as a whole.

For any crime where a person is harmed or property is stolen or destroyed, amends must be made. I do not consider someone rehabilitated until they at least desire to make up for what they have done, even if they can not truly compensate their victim.

To sum up my feelings between the words rehabilitate and retribution, I would say rehabilitate. Though bear in mind I have a very strict definition of what rehabilitation would be.

I think a business should know what wrongs someone has done if they are relevant to the position the person is trying to get. Especially if they are not considered rehabilitated.

I think part of the problem lies in the culture and other parts lie in the laws. The part of the culture like gangs that encourages illegal behavior and the part of the culture that glorifies horrific actions. Then there are the laws that keep someone from finding a job with decent pay even if what they did has nothing to do with the job. Leading them to be more likely to return to the crimes they originally did, especially if those crimes did lead to an income.

Marijuana and hash (this is the majority of what I ******** with), LSD, mescaline, "beans", MDMA, shroomies, mostly psychedelics and love-peace-and-understanding drugs.


no coca
no meth
no crack
no heroin
no pills


I wish I knew the side effects myself, but I'm pretty sure only anti-drug sources publish those. I won't sell anything I wouldn't put into my own body, though.

Enduring Genius

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Step 1 we needs for changes laws. Dere's a lot tings dat's illegal dat not shoulda be in 1st place. Den dere's other tings dat shoulda stays illegal, but getted punished wit' fines or communities services only. Den, when only violent peoples is in prison, we coulda tries for figures more better ways for sees if dey coulda getted helped. 3nodding
The truth about our recidivism rate is a lot darker than you may realize. Let me start by pointing you to this little astounding fact: Companies don't just know about your criminal records, if you go to jail there's a good chance you'll be in the charge of a corporation. You will literally be taken to a privately run facility and essentially used for free labor.

And yes, these groups lobby congress. And yes, they do support the drug war, and have a hand in immigration reform.

In the light of this article, there's little to say about why our prisons fail.

Issues like this muddy the waters when it comes to reasonable reform when it comes to how we handle prisoners, drug policy, and illegal immigration especially.

All I can say is that when its possible to make a quick buck doing X*, someone will probably do X*

*be it build a shitty prison, fill that prison with shitty guards, lobby congress to avoid amnesty-based immigration/war-on-drugs reform, etc etc. There is a corporation out there that stands to make a pretty buck, about 1 in 7 times someone is sent to jail.
look at your rental policies, credit policies, employment policies, and 2nd amendment rights.

If a criminal is still a criminal when released into the public, why do you expect them to do anything a citizen does, knowing they do not have the same rights or opportunities?

That's like asking a genetic male to give birth.

Shameless Heckler

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If I wanted to design a system to turn a petty criminal into a serious villain I would probably base it off the US prison system.

If they really want to reduce the recidivism rate they should segregate the long term offenders from people in prison for relatively minor crimes because the current state of affairs inside a US prison is one where people need to adapt to survive and that involves creating alliances with prison gangs that are involved in various criminal enterprises that the person seeking their protection will inevitably be drawn into.

A major overhaul of the system is needed sooner rather than later.

Witty Genius

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washu_2004
If I wanted to design a system to turn a petty criminal into a serious villain I would probably base it off the US prison system.

If they really want to reduce the recidivism rate they should segregate the long term offenders from people in prison for relatively minor crimes because the current state of affairs inside a US prison is one where people need to adapt to survive and that involves creating alliances with prison gangs that are involved in various criminal enterprises that the person seeking their protection will inevitably be drawn into.

A major overhaul of the system is needed sooner rather than later.
A good place to start is with the discrimination that comes with companies doing background checks. Sure, daycares and schools should be doing them, and should be allowed to discriminate against sexual offenders, and banks should be allowed to say no to hiring someone with a robbery conviction. But most companies do not need to run an extensive background check.

Oh no! That guy over there was in prison for having one too many joints on his person. We can't hire him to flip a burger at McDonald's because it'll run off customers, and he'll rob the store....

or

We can't hire him to erect a building, he robbed a man at gunpoint to feed his starving family. He'll kill his fellow employees when he should be mounting a drywall.


And let's face it, the rare company that WILL hire an ex felon, is usually a company that even an illegal immigrant wouldn't want to work at. One of the biggest causes for recidivism is the background check. A man gets out and can't find honest work. If an ex criminal can't find a job, the only thing left to him is to return to crime. I mean seriously, we have anti-discrimination laws in this country for nearly all groups. But it's still legal to discriminate the one group that has the greatest risk of committing a crime. Do away with background checks on 95% of potential jobs (barring only those that deal with children, large sums of money, or need top secret security clearances) and I guarantee you that recidivism rates will drop, as will many crimes.

And for the love of god, decriminalize a lot of illegal drugs and legalize pot.

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