The "Obama-Care/Freedom of Choice" Debate

Would you "Opt Out" of Obama-Care if your boss & all the Hospitals had to know & could drop coverage or raise rates on you?

Hell yes! I'd Opt Out of Obama-Care no matter "who" knew & "what" it cost me!	23.1%	[ 3 ]
No way! I'd be scared to let my boss know I wasn't protected by it & have all those hospitals know!	7.7%	[ 1 ]
Um...no..having all the hospitals know about me defeats the reason why I would...	0.0%	[ 0 ]
No Way! I actually WANT Obama-Care, but I'd support other people doing this!	69.2%	[ 9 ]
Total Votes:			[ 13 ]

[Captain Tuberculosis]

I heard the "TEA Party" talking about it on TV & it's a popular topic for political discussion in many circles... but really where do you stand on it & what do you think? (be honest) Is Obama-Care really such a bad thing? & if so tell me why? Does it really step on our freedom of choice that much? How so?

That said, here's MY OPINION:

You people who want to "Destroy Obama-Care" in the name of protecting "Freedom Of Choice"... ARE ALL A BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES! There, I said it... & it's "true"! You ARE "hypocrites", & you know why? Because your stepping all over our right to CHOOSE Obama-Care for ourselves by wanting to get rid of it! It's selfish, & it's hypocritical! Did you ever think that maybe SOME OF US might actually want Obama care & want to give it a try for themselves & their own family see if it works for them personally? Did you ever think that maybe SOME OF US might actually NEED OBAMA-CARE? NO! You didn't you just opened your big fat mouth & said "Kill it! Kill it with fire & pitchforks!"

It really makes me sick when I hear people talk about it like they "speak for ALL Americans" when they don't & have no idea how SOME OF US think & feel about it at all! Like that young guy who said that "Young people don't wanna be dependent on their parents health-care until they turn 27 they wanna be independent" xp How Dare he!!! Does he even realize that not every person under 27 can afford adequate health insurgence at reasonable rates & that in this economy some people under 27 can't find jobs that provide good health insurance or any at all for that matter & can't afford to by their own, but desperately need their parents insurance until they can? People like him make me so mad I could spit blood!

Having said that...

HERE'S MY ALTERNATIVE TO REPEALING OBAMA-CARE:

DON'T repeal it, reform it, or otherwise eliminate it... GIVE US REAL "FREEDOM OF CHOICE" & by THAT I mean Stop trying to throw it out & start a "Petition" to create an "Individual Person's Opt Out Bill"! so that PEOPLE NOT STATES (or the country) BUT PEOPLE Individual Human Beings Opting Out On a Person-By-Person Basis.

You DON'T want Obama-Care, you don't have to have it, I WANT Obama-Care, I get it! It's just that simple! If you don't want it, that's fine! That's your choice... but DON"T "take it away" from the rest of us!

HERE'S HOW IT WOULD WORK:

Anyone who does NOT want Obama-Care applied to them would fill out an "Opt Out Request Form" which would be available online on government websites for people with internet access to fill out, or as a paper form that people without computer access could pick up from local government offices. Once filled out & submitted online or via snail-mail it would reach a government official who would put you in a national data-base listing of people who Officially "Opted Out" of Obama Care which would then be sent to the computers of hospitals nation wide which would then know as soon as you gave them your name & social security number that you were an "opt-out patient" who is either uninsured or privately insured & would not expect Obama-Care to be your means of payment. Additionally "Opt Out Patients" would also enjoy "freedom" from protections against premium increases or dropped coverage as result of preexisting condition or illness however.. so as way of handling that their "Opt Out Status" would also be E-mailed to the insurance provider &/or current employer providing insurance (which they were required by law to list on the form) & would essentially be a free pass to raise their rates or drop their coverage which many employers would take advantage of for the savings... & their children would be ineligible for shared coverage that lasts until 27 & would probably put their parents in a nursing home someday to punish them for opting out.

In short it IS possible for the paranoid people who want the government's nose out of their healthcare, religious nuts who'd rather die then pay a penny tword abortion coverage with their healthcare, young punks who think their invincible & wanna fly without a net, & any other misguided morons to screw themselves out of benefits & let the rest of us enjoy them, if they don't mind a few additional downsides like a little bit of red-tape & waiting to get out & everybody knowing about it & labeling them for it. It's not only a good idea, it's desirable... cuz it makes everybody happy AND it makes Obama-Care more affordable for the rest of us with fewer cutbacks!

SO WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? START A PETITION, START TAKING NAMES & SHOW IT TO OBAMA!!!

Can We Compromise? Yes We Can!!! THIS is the "solution" to stop the fighting in Washington!

[Captain Tuberculosis]

In case you can't tell, I'm on the side that actually "WANTS OBAMA-CARE"!

I actually plan on sharing this idea with Obama & his team as a way to compromise & preserve Obama-Care by allowing people who insist on not being forced to fund abortion, buy insurance or share insurance with their parents/children till 27 years of age to opt out & leave it for the rest of us.

Also, if you really wanna know why I want it it's cuz there's a lot of illness in my family & circle of friends, I am 23 & jobless, and I don't want the rug pulled out from my feet & the feet of everyone I care about.. like my diabetic mom with high cholesterol, my dad who's had a few strokes & might have another, my friend with lupus & chronic bronchitis, my asthmatic friend with the paralyzed vocal cord that threatens her life by randomly closing her airway, or my friend who has turner syndrome, diabetes, & a diabetic dad for examples.

Can everyone who wants off the Obama-Care band-wagon please just jump off, & let the rest of us stay on?

You might find think people like me ignorant or cruelty judge us for wanting a government crutch to lean on, & you might not agree, you might even think we are the minority & that our voices are not worth hearing & that we don't deserve to be taken seriously... but we DO deserve to be heard & you should compromise for us!

GIVE US FREEDOM OF CHOICE TO CHOOSE OBAMA_CARE!!!

It's our choice if we want to be in the governments hands under their watch fullcare, anything we are forced into is a choice we were willing to subject ourselves to, it's our choice to except whatever we lose or gain, we choose this for better or worse! If you have your reasons against it, start a petition to make it your choice not to have it!

[Less Than Liz]

You do realize that the bedrock of the Affordable Care Act is the individual mandate, and that without it the entire legislation becomes a paper tiger since there wouldn't be enough folks in the insurance pool to support it.

In other words, the way in which the legislation is structured requires everybody to participate or else it will largely be ineffective. That's what the entire debate revolves around. To allow people to opt-out is to essentially echo a Tea Party-lite argument, one which the government will never willingly adopt precisely because it renders all the work behind the ACA moot and they would have to likely create entirely new health care legislation.

[Captain Tuberculosis]

Less Than Liz

You do realize that the bedrock of the Affordable Care Act is the individual mandate, and that without it the entire legislation becomes a paper tiger since there wouldn't be enough folks in the insurance pool to support it.

In other words, the way in which the legislation is structured requires everybody to participate or else it will largely be ineffective. That's what the entire debate revolves around. To allow people to opt-out is to essentially echo a Tea Party-lite argument, one which the government will never willingly adopt precisely because it renders all the work behind the ACA moot and they would have to likely create entirely new health care legislation.

Well TEA Party-Lite is better then strait TEA Party & if it would be the only way that we could get them to shut up & let the people who actually want the good stuff Obama care has to offer I'd take this over killing the whole thing completly anyways... Not everyone is against Obama-Care that's just what they TEA Party wants you to think when the reality is that even if the ones who don't want it Opt-Out there would most likely still be enough people in the pool to make it work!

[Less Than Liz]

Captain Tuberculosis

Less Than Liz

You do realize that the bedrock of the Affordable Care Act is the individual mandate, and that without it the entire legislation becomes a paper tiger since there wouldn't be enough folks in the insurance pool to support it.

In other words, the way in which the legislation is structured requires everybody to participate or else it will largely be ineffective. That's what the entire debate revolves around. To allow people to opt-out is to essentially echo a Tea Party-lite argument, one which the government will never willingly adopt precisely because it renders all the work behind the ACA moot and they would have to likely create entirely new health care legislation.

Well TEA Party-Lite is better then strait TEA Party & if it would be the only way that we could get them to shut up & let the people who actually want the good stuff Obama care has to offer I'd take this over killing the whole thing completly anyways... Not everyone is against Obama-Care that's just what they TEA Party wants you to think when the reality is that even if the ones who don't want it Opt-Out there would most likely still be enough people in the pool to make it work!

Nevermind. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[Captain Tuberculosis]

Less Than Liz

Captain Tuberculosis

Less Than Liz

You do realize that the bedrock of the Affordable Care Act is the individual mandate, and that without it the entire legislation becomes a paper tiger since there wouldn't be enough folks in the insurance pool to support it.

In other words, the way in which the legislation is structured requires everybody to participate or else it will largely be ineffective. That's what the entire debate revolves around. To allow people to opt-out is to essentially echo a Tea Party-lite argument, one which the government will never willingly adopt precisely because it renders all the work behind the ACA moot and they would have to likely create entirely new health care legislation.

Well TEA Party-Lite is better then strait TEA Party & if it would be the only way that we could get them to shut up & let the people who actually want the good stuff Obama care has to offer I'd take this over killing the whole thing completly anyways... Not everyone is against Obama-Care that's just what they TEA Party wants you to think when the reality is that even if the ones who don't want it Opt-Out there would most likely still be enough people in the pool to make it work!

Nevermind. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Because I think there'd be enough people left in the pool to make it work even if the morons who don't want it opt out?

[Less Than Liz]

Captain Tuberculosis

Less Than Liz

Captain Tuberculosis

Less Than Liz

You do realize that the bedrock of the Affordable Care Act is the individual mandate, and that without it the entire legislation becomes a paper tiger since there wouldn't be enough folks in the insurance pool to support it.

In other words, the way in which the legislation is structured requires everybody to participate or else it will largely be ineffective. That's what the entire debate revolves around. To allow people to opt-out is to essentially echo a Tea Party-lite argument, one which the government will never willingly adopt precisely because it renders all the work behind the ACA moot and they would have to likely create entirely new health care legislation.

Well TEA Party-Lite is better then strait TEA Party & if it would be the only way that we could get them to shut up & let the people who actually want the good stuff Obama care has to offer I'd take this over killing the whole thing completly anyways... Not everyone is against Obama-Care that's just what they TEA Party wants you to think when the reality is that even if the ones who don't want it Opt-Out there would most likely still be enough people in the pool to make it work!

Nevermind. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Because I think there'd be enough people left in the pool to make it work even if the morons who don't want it opt out?

Yes. When the legislation was written, Congress justified the requirement in the bill by stating the opposite of your claim:

Quote:

(G) Under sections 2704 and 2705 of the Public Health Service Act (as added by section 1201 of this Act), if there were no requirement, many individuals would wait to purchase health insurance until they needed care. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will minimize this adverse selection and broaden the health insurance risk pool to include healthy individuals, which will lower health insurance premiums. The requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets in which improved health insurance products that are guaranteed issue and do not exclude coverage of preexisting conditions can be sold.

(H) Administrative costs for private health insurance, which were $90,000,000,000 in 2006, are 26 to 30 percent of premiums in the current individual and small group markets. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage and the size of purchasing pools, which will increase economies of scale, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will significantly reduce administrative costs and lower health insurance premiums. The requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets that do not require underwriting and eliminate its associated administrative costs.

Congress is saying the ACA insures more people and prevents them from being denied insurance coverage because of preexisting conditions, and that success of the reform requires uninsured people – usually younger and healthier – join the national risk pool. This will help lower the costs of health insurance premiums nationally. The mandate's entire existent is justified by Congress' assertion that not enough people would be a part of the insurance pool were they allowed to participate voluntarily. This is not a Tea Party conspiracy; it is literally embedded in the legislation by Congress.

The controversy surrounding the individual mandate is whether or not Congress has the authority to require individuals to purchase health insurance. If it would have no effect - which would be contrary to the language in the bill - that section would be rendered superfluous and, in all likelihood, the Department of Justice would simply argue that it be severed and the rest of legislation remain intact. As it stands, they're arguing for its Constitutionality precisely because they believe it's necessary for the legislation to fulfill its purpose.

[Ammo Amy]

Of course, it would be entirely fair that those who decided to opt out and did not have means to pay for treatment to be denied such. After all by opting out, they would be stating that they would be entirely responsible for paying for any future health issues and not place it on the backs of everyone else in the form of unpaid emergency room visits, etc.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Ammo Amy

Of course, it would be entirely fair that those who decided to opt out and did not have means to pay for treatment to be denied such. After all by opting out, they would be stating that they would be entirely responsible for paying for any future health issues and not place it on the backs of everyone else in the form of unpaid emergency room visits, etc.

PLEASE pass that!! No illegals allowed in on it, either. And no one that needs 'supplemental' assistance (taxpayers picking up their tab for it) either. Let emergency rooms simply tell them 'tough s**t. You ain't legal/rich/covered, so there's the door. Don't forget your arm."

[Ammo Amy]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Ammo Amy

Of course, it would be entirely fair that those who decided to opt out and did not have means to pay for treatment to be denied such. After all by opting out, they would be stating that they would be entirely responsible for paying for any future health issues and not place it on the backs of everyone else in the form of unpaid emergency room visits, etc.

PLEASE pass that!! No illegals allowed in on it, either. And no one that needs 'supplemental' assistance (taxpayers picking up their tab for it) either. Let emergency rooms simply tell them 'tough s**t. You ain't legal/rich/covered, so there's the door. Don't forget your arm."

As compassionate as always, eh Joe?

If an Illegal has the money, there's no reason to deny them coverage. They dn't check green cards at the door, only the ability to pay.

However, since the law states that one HAS to treat anyone that comes into a hospital, I see no reason to let people opt out, unless they can pay independently. Conversely, if you allow people to opt out, then you have to change the laws pertaining to coverage and treatment. Goodbye pre-existing conditions coverage and hello, "Death Panels"

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Ammo Amy

Old Blue Collar Joe

Ammo Amy

Of course, it would be entirely fair that those who decided to opt out and did not have means to pay for treatment to be denied such. After all by opting out, they would be stating that they would be entirely responsible for paying for any future health issues and not place it on the backs of everyone else in the form of unpaid emergency room visits, etc.

PLEASE pass that!! No illegals allowed in on it, either. And no one that needs 'supplemental' assistance (taxpayers picking up their tab for it) either. Let emergency rooms simply tell them 'tough s**t. You ain't legal/rich/covered, so there's the door. Don't forget your arm."

As compassionate as always, eh Joe?

If an Illegal has the money, there's no reason to deny them coverage. They dn't check green cards at the door, only the ability to pay.

However, since the law states that one HAS to treat anyone that comes into a hospital, I see no reason to let people opt out, unless they can pay independently.

Hey, I'm going off YOUR comment to say ******** you to people that refuse to take part in a government plan that YOU said to tell to ******** off.
And having money doesn't make one legal.

[Ammo Amy]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Ammo Amy

Old Blue Collar Joe

Ammo Amy

Of course, it would be entirely fair that those who decided to opt out and did not have means to pay for treatment to be denied such. After all by opting out, they would be stating that they would be entirely responsible for paying for any future health issues and not place it on the backs of everyone else in the form of unpaid emergency room visits, etc.

PLEASE pass that!! No illegals allowed in on it, either. And no one that needs 'supplemental' assistance (taxpayers picking up their tab for it) either. Let emergency rooms simply tell them 'tough s**t. You ain't legal/rich/covered, so there's the door. Don't forget your arm."

As compassionate as always, eh Joe?

If an Illegal has the money, there's no reason to deny them coverage. They dn't check green cards at the door, only the ability to pay.

However, since the law states that one HAS to treat anyone that comes into a hospital, I see no reason to let people opt out, unless they can pay independently.

Hey, I'm going off YOUR comment to say ******** you to people that refuse to take part in a government plan that YOU said to tell to ******** off.
And having money doesn't make one legal.

I guess you missed the obvious sarcasm, Joe.

Legality doesn't play into paying hospital bills and health coverage, Joe. That's a matter for ICE. The only color the hospitals care about these days is green.

[Living Daylights]

Anyone who is unwilling to give some of their wealth to the needy are unchristian. And if you are unwilling to help the poor in this life, then maybe the Lord is unwilling to help you in the next one.

[Captain Tuberculosis]

tererun the horrifying

the one thing i cannot stand is the association of Obama with the mandate health insurance pert of the bill. Anyone who paid attention to the whole thing knows Obama wanted single payer government health care. The whole reason the bill came about as that insurance companies were screwing over their customers. The mandate to have health insurance came from......the republicans. That was not Obama. The republicans were playing a game of lets see what crazy s**t we can add to the bill because obama was trying to negotiate with them.

Now you can say obama supported it because he did sign the bill knowing the provision was in there. To that i have to say he made sure the provision had plenty of time to be reviewed by the courts and tossed out. He made sure the important parts of insurance reform were initiated immediately. So he got some of his reforms in, that were needed BTW, an then allowed the republicans to play a stupid game and he made sure to give the courts 4 years to shoot down their insurance mandates.

Now what do we have in effect?
-Insurance companies cannot drop people for getting long term expensive diseases.
-No lifetime caps for insurance care.
-guaranteed insurance coverage for those people with pre-existing conditions in a high risk pool that will eventually be done away with and the insurance companies will have to accept pre-existing conditions without higher rates
-No more charging different genders different rates
-The age limit for requiring kids get their own insurance was raised to 26 allowing them to go to college and then get a job before they have to pay for their own insurance.
-better coverage for seniors to actually reduce the amount they rely on medicare and SS for.

Those things are good and were put into effect much quicker than the Republican insurance mandate that was never a part of the original Obamacare to begin with. If you are going to blame Obama for requiring people to pay a private for profit company for insurance please make sure it was actually his idea and not the product of some republican congressman who's last name is the same as a hard on. Thanks a bunch and stop being a ******** idiot in the future.

Why can't we just revise the law to the way it originally was meant to be instead of throwing it out?