Study- 90% of black kids on food stamps

[BlueCollarJoe]

Jay Riot

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

Lol, yeah, people deliberately didn't make enough money so they could qualify for government welfare. Or they passed up opportunities to make too much money, that makes so much sense it's ******** insane!

I tend to agree with you Jay. I realize that there are those that simply aren't willing to try, but I think that number is more in line with ten percent or so, not fifty or more as some will point out.
I think a bigger portion of it is people who simply don't see a point, due to parental failure on encouraging their kids to achieve.
And the reality that it's much easier to complain than to work harder to succeed.
We live in a highly competitive society, and the various cultures within our society do tend to push less on education than 'cool'.
We do need to find a way to encourage more success, and present more of a hand up than a hand out.
But I don't think the majority of those on the bottom ladder rung are simply hanging out for free.

[[Castration Pop]]

I'm on food stamps...

[Vercingetorix VII]

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

It's odd to note that in America, people expressing this sort of view are not only not shunned as base and immoral creatures incapable of feeling for their fellow man, but they are in fact embraced as being somehow "realists". Often by self-professed Christians, even, although one needn't add hypocrisy onto this view, as it reeks evilly enough of all the most ugly aspects of human nature as it is.

I contend that all people are created equally, and have an equal thirst for rights and knowledge. Only when the spirit is broken and hope endlessly deferred does the soul become so jaded as to stifle these innate desires.

[BlueCollarJoe]

Vercingetorix VII

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

It's odd to note that in America, people expressing this sort of view are not only not shunned as base and immoral creatures incapable of feeling for their fellow man, but they are in fact embraced as being somehow "realists". Often by self-professed Christians, even, although one needn't add hypocrisy onto this view, as it reeks evilly enough of all the most ugly aspects of human nature as it is.

I contend that all people are created equally, and have an equal thirst for rights and knowledge. Only when the spirit is broken and hope endlessly deferred does the soul become so jaded as to stifle these innate desires.

I disagree on all people having that same thirst for knowledge or even success. I do agree with the assessment that it isn't a majority that simply climbs in the welfare hammock, rather than using it as a safety net.

[dotanuki]

Azrael Aluminous

We have to view poverty in a holistic view we can't just rule out some other factors which may seem unlikely.

Here are two.

Culture Some people argue that depending on the culture which a group is situated in their actions may vary. For instance, a culture which promotes the perfection of women both financially and in beauty may have more women who are more efficient. They're efficient since they're culture desires them to be efficient and they must live up to their expectations by society. Likewise a society which promotes poverty, war, crime, drug dealing, etc would be likewise to take as severe stances on these issues. A culture which says oh being in a gang is great, war is beautiful, drugs are fine, etc may have more people on drugs because oh it's alright in this society, an example of this may actually be Russia. Russia seems (from what I remember) to have an indifferent view of bribing in their society because of this corruption through bribery is rampant because it's seen as no big deal.

Poverty Chain?
It's how people are basically ruined and it's a theory which has been mentioned before. Basically it's like this: "Because my daddy is too poor to get a well paying job he's poor. Because I can't afford a good school and I can't get a better job I'm poor. Because I can't afford to send my children to a to a better school they too are also poor, etc"

This would "essentially" be fixed if (higher) schooling was free or there was a different way to pay for it which was more effective (hint: Labour Debt).

History tells the Americans that they had used the blacks as slaves. Since they used the blacks as slaves they were not as educated, since they were not as educated they can't get high paying jobs, since they can't get high paying jobs the poverty chain continues.

Circle gets the square, with the addition of the old Calvinist doctrine of "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" when the kid can't afford any, nor garner an education to learn how to construct them or afford them because the same people cutting funding to education are the same people telling him to "try harder". It never ceases to amaze me how many times I see the lack of logic by these people who create uncivilized conditions that they wouldn't dare let their family, let alone children, live in by their voting patterns and willfull ignorance, yet they complain when it's brought to their door as they speak of being victims of class warfare. If we're asking for innovation, when are we going to start funding it?

[UnfunnyKitty]

I find cute your attempt to use logic with those of disposition deemed conservative, but in response I submit thus: Those same people who believe that blacks are doomed to poverty because of genetics are themselves bound to think in this pattern because of genetics. Some people simply cannot be reasoned with, and if after so many years of the continued failure of conservative politics they continue to believe in them, there is really very little hope for them

[Jay Riot]

BlueCollarJoe

Jay Riot

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

Lol, yeah, people deliberately didn't make enough money so they could qualify for government welfare. Or they passed up opportunities to make too much money, that makes so much sense it's ******** insane!

I tend to agree with you Jay. I realize that there are those that simply aren't willing to try, but I think that number is more in line with ten percent or so, not fifty or more as some will point out.
I think a bigger portion of it is people who simply don't see a point, due to parental failure on encouraging their kids to achieve.
And the reality that it's much easier to complain than to work harder to succeed.
We live in a highly competitive society, and the various cultures within our society do tend to push less on education than 'cool'.
We do need to find a way to encourage more success, and present more of a hand up than a hand out.
But I don't think the majority of those on the bottom ladder rung are simply hanging out for free.

It's the motivation behind his post that was so retarded. Yes there needs to be more incentive to achieve, but saying people are on welfare because they choose to be out of sheer laziness, even though their lives are full of opportunities, is crazy and just plain wrong. Do some people rely on welfare too much? Of course, but I'm still fairly sure you can't get welfare for just 'being poor' and lazy.

[Vercingetorix VII]

A proposal;

The government offers to hire everyone to work either full time, at 40 hours a week, or part time, at 20 hours a week, at minimum wage.

Doing what? I dunno. Anything. Busy work. Plant trees. Clean up streets. Feed ducks and squirrels. Kill ducks and squirrels. Build parks and repair roads and so on. Write, cook, take notes, repair books, move boxes. Dig and refill ditches if it becomes necessary.

The point is it would solve unemployment and provide a safety net. Anyone at any age or any level of disability could find something to do, and it wouldn't be welfare. Welfare itself could be eradicated. You might be doing something of almost no public value, but you would be working for those forty hours. Hopefully more often there are public works that can be done. I've been to plenty of neighborhoods in D.C. that could use prettying up. No kid should have to grow up in a slum.

And this would cost far less over the course of, say, twenty years, than bailing out Wall Street of one bad year has cost.

[Silvia Crow]

Dermezel

Silvia Crow

Ya know, 90% seems...absurdly high. To the point that it sounds like they just pulled that number out of their

Okay let's examine this argument from various perspectives to see how its measures with respect to strength of premises and logical validity aka Crow needs logic 101.

Premise 1- "Ya know, 90% seems"- the argument from seeming. I was not aware that "seeming" was a valid way of evaluating statistical accuracy. To me that sounds somewhat subjective, perhaps I am not up to date on modern statistical method and the whole "seeming" standard flew right past me.

Premise 2- "absurdly high." I guess where Crow lives African-Americans have historically been a privileged, class, which were never harmed by racism, or slavery, or segregation. And where Crow lives we can assume racism has disappeared entirely. Unfortunately for Crow this place cannot be the United States.

Premise 3- "To the point that it sounds" so along with the argue from how the statistic seems, we now have the argument from how the statistics sounds.

Therefore- "like they just pulled that number out of their" foot. Now let's consider the validity of the statements, we go from the way the statistic seems, to how the statistic sounds, and then conclude it was pulled out of someone's foot.

And let's turn this around: "Silvia Crow seems a little bias. To the point where he/she sounds like he/she won't want acknowledge real problems plaguing African-Americans. Therefore we can conclude that he/she will reject/ignore/dismiss all inconvenient data, even if that means he/she has to pull an illogical objection, based on weak premises and invalid reasoning, out of his or /her..."

Tisk tisk, you assume much my friend.

My apprehension of you "facts" lies not in my own twisted, warped version of reality where everyone is accountable for themselves (and I won't even get into the racial aspects of it taht you touched on as we would be off-topic for pages and pages). Rather, it lies in your source.

1. It's a blog, which is not a credable source lest there are sources in said blog to support claims.
2. No such in-blog sources exist.

Therefore, one can infer that your source is concocted of lies and bias, as they cannot properly source the study in question. And judging from the comments left at the end of the article, the claims of bias do not seem far-fetched.

[Dermezel]

Azrael Aluminous

We have to view poverty in a holistic view we can't just rule out some other factors which may seem unlikely.

Here are two.

Culture Some people argue that depending on the culture which a group is situated in their actions may vary. For instance, a culture which promotes the perfection of women both financially and in beauty may have more women who are more efficient. They're efficient since they're culture desires them to be efficient and they must live up to their expectations by society. Likewise a society which promotes poverty, war, crime, drug dealing, etc would be likewise to take as severe stances on these issues. A culture which says oh being in a gang is great, war is beautiful, drugs are fine, etc may have more people on drugs because oh it's alright in this society, an example of this may actually be Russia. Russia seems (from what I remember) to have an indifferent view of bribing in their society because of this corruption through bribery is rampant because it's seen as no big deal.

Poverty Chain?
It's how people are basically ruined and it's a theory which has been mentioned before. Basically it's like this: "Because my daddy is too poor to get a well paying job he's poor. Because I can't afford a good school and I can't get a better job I'm poor. Because I can't afford to send my children to a to a better school they too are also poor, etc"

This would "essentially" be fixed if (higher) schooling was free or there was a different way to pay for it which was more effective (hint: Labour Debt).

History tells the Americans that they had used the blacks as slaves. Since they used the blacks as slaves they were not as educated, since they were not as educated they can't get high paying jobs, since they can't get high paying jobs the poverty chain continues.

Indeed, and all of this shows a major flaw in the free market- it cannot break negative cycles, or at least, takes many, many generations and even then the solution is not complete.

[Dermezel]

BlueCollarJoe

Vercingetorix VII

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

It's odd to note that in America, people expressing this sort of view are not only not shunned as base and immoral creatures incapable of feeling for their fellow man, but they are in fact embraced as being somehow "realists". Often by self-professed Christians, even, although one needn't add hypocrisy onto this view, as it reeks evilly enough of all the most ugly aspects of human nature as it is.

I contend that all people are created equally, and have an equal thirst for rights and knowledge. Only when the spirit is broken and hope endlessly deferred does the soul become so jaded as to stifle these innate desires.

I disagree on all people having that same thirst for knowledge or even success. I do agree with the assessment that it isn't a majority that simply climbs in the welfare hammock, rather than using it as a safety net.

Gee I wonder where BlueCollar puts himself on this.

[Sweetpea The Tigress]

BlueCollarJoe

Quote:

Among black children and children living in single-parent households, the percentage is much higher: around 90 percent live in homes that receive food stamps at one stage or another.

And nearly all black children in single parent homes where the head of household has less than a high school education live in financial and food insecurity during part of their childhood, the study says.

Wait a minute. You're cherry picking, yet again. The survey states 90% of black children and children living in single parent homes, not just 'black children' as you are pushing.
It also goes on to state with a less than high school education for the parent.
Survey sounds like bullshit, and you're altering the statistics.

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/acrossstates/Rankings.aspx?ind=107

Now, take a good look at the percentages across the country. Do you see any correlation?

I noticed a lot of rankings that said that the % of black folk on it was 60-70%... but then, i'm a mathematical idiot. Did you mean something else?

[Sweetpea The Tigress]

BlueCollarJoe

Jay Riot

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

Lol, yeah, people deliberately didn't make enough money so they could qualify for government welfare. Or they passed up opportunities to make too much money, that makes so much sense it's ******** insane!

I tend to agree with you Jay. I realize that there are those that simply aren't willing to try, but I think that number is more in line with ten percent or so, not fifty or more as some will point out.
I think a bigger portion of it is people who simply don't see a point, due to parental failure on encouraging their kids to achieve.
And the reality that it's much easier to complain than to work harder to succeed.
We live in a highly competitive society, and the various cultures within our society do tend to push less on education than 'cool'.
We do need to find a way to encourage more success, and present more of a hand up than a hand out.
But I don't think the majority of those on the bottom ladder rung are simply hanging out for free.

*hugs!* My man, Blue Collar Joe... always honest, even when we disagree on many things.
Inthe Black Community, I see a problem with education not being pushed- and actually being discouraged. Personally, I've been told off, many times, by people who told me to "stop acting White" when i was seen to study. I don't think its that the people don't want to work- I think its that the culture is, unfortunately, so resentful of it position that it does things and holds standards that actually keep us in that position. The poor aren't lazy from what I have seen- quite a few hustle (legal though under the table work), getting all sorts of odd jobs, and finding ways to make money.

[BlueCollarJoe]

Vercingetorix VII

A proposal;

The government offers to hire everyone to work either full time, at 40 hours a week, or part time, at 20 hours a week, at minimum wage.

Doing what? I dunno. Anything. Busy work. Plant trees. Clean up streets. Feed ducks and squirrels. Kill ducks and squirrels. Build parks and repair roads and so on. Write, cook, take notes, repair books, move boxes. Dig and refill ditches if it becomes necessary.

The point is it would solve unemployment and provide a safety net. Anyone at any age or any level of disability could find something to do, and it wouldn't be welfare. Welfare itself could be eradicated. You might be doing something of almost no public value, but you would be working for those forty hours. Hopefully more often there are public works that can be done. I've been to plenty of neighborhoods in D.C. that could use prettying up. No kid should have to grow up in a slum.

And this would cost far less over the course of, say, twenty years, than bailing out Wall Street of one bad year has cost.

I happen to agree with that assessment. I also believe it would be better than busy work to require attendance at a tech/trade school, with transportation provided, and child care, to teach them marketable skills while on government subsistence.
Give them a 2% loan, that they pay back to the government after they have been employed for over 90 days. Also to keep providing them their welfare benefits (health, with 30 days of the check) to give them a boost up.
Those that aren't mentally/physically capable? Let them be on subsistence if we have to, but those that are physically and mentally capable? As you said, clean the streets, whatever we have for them to do.
By realizing you have to work anyway, you may as well go for a better paying job, is much more beneficial than simply sending a check.
Unfortunately, there are those that disagree with this attitude.

Sweetpea The Tigress

BlueCollarJoe

Jay Riot

Durgress

Ok, so you say it is becuase of a "flimsly social safety net"? I say it's cause people are verminous, lazy leeches if given the chance and the simple fact is a LARGE percentage of people in public schools will not get a high school diploma. Not because of bad teaching (well, mabey), but because they DO NOT WANT TO LEARN. I think that people not wanting to live a productive life has more to do with the use of food stamps than a safety net.

Lol, yeah, people deliberately didn't make enough money so they could qualify for government welfare. Or they passed up opportunities to make too much money, that makes so much sense it's ******** insane!

I tend to agree with you Jay. I realize that there are those that simply aren't willing to try, but I think that number is more in line with ten percent or so, not fifty or more as some will point out.
I think a bigger portion of it is people who simply don't see a point, due to parental failure on encouraging their kids to achieve.
And the reality that it's much easier to complain than to work harder to succeed.
We live in a highly competitive society, and the various cultures within our society do tend to push less on education than 'cool'.
We do need to find a way to encourage more success, and present more of a hand up than a hand out.
But I don't think the majority of those on the bottom ladder rung are simply hanging out for free.

*hugs!* My man, Blue Collar Joe... always honest, even when we disagree on many things.
Inthe Black Community, I see a problem with education not being pushed- and actually being discouraged. Personally, I've been told off, many times, by people who told me to "stop acting White" when i was seen to study. I don't think its that the people don't want to work- I think its that the culture is, unfortunately, so resentful of it position that it does things and holds standards that actually keep us in that position. The poor aren't lazy from what I have seen- quite a few hustle (legal though under the table work), getting all sorts of odd jobs, and finding ways to make money.

See? I don't sacrifice goats and small children, in spite of the beliefs to the contrary.
I don't think this is so much genetic as someone in here pointed out, as cultural. Break that cultural barrier on achievement, and I think you'd see a drastic change.
The percentages in the link I provided previously was shocking. Why are such a large number of blacks in this level? I seriously doubt racism is the cause, as racism is, while still in existence, not a major factor. It's a relatively small number of morons, most of which are too stupid to run their own business in the first place.
We have a black man that we have 'adopted', so to speak, and when I go pick him up to spend a week with us, (he has a standing offer to move in and get ahead), his brother has literally called him Oreo Boy.
I think it's mindset, Tigress. And your post pretty much correlates that.

[Wendigo]

Silvia Crow

Ya know, 90% seems...absurdly high. To the point that it sounds like they just pulled that number out of their a**.

I don't think so, given that over 50% of black families are single parent homes, usually with the mother as the sole breadwinner, and only 14% of blacks 25 or over have a bachelor's degree or higher.

Of course, one in eight Americans in general is "food insecure."