Sometimes Insha'allah Isn't Enough

[Heimdalr]

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

[Spierred]

Heimdalr

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

Kinda, except we've never bought diapers.

If someone gets shot, you can stick a tampon into the bullet hole to plug the bleeding temporarily.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Spierred

Heimdalr

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

Kinda, except we've never bought diapers.

If someone gets shot, you can stick a tampon into the bullet hole to plug the bleeding temporarily.

4x 4s seem like they would do quite a better job.

Only application for a tampon I've seen is for epistaxis.

[Spierred]

Tactical Leg Sweep

Spierred

Heimdalr

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

Kinda, except we've never bought diapers.

If someone gets shot, you can stick a tampon into the bullet hole to plug the bleeding temporarily.

4x 4s seem like they would do quite a better job.

Only application for a tampon I've seen is for epistaxis.

Nah man, tampons are definitely better for holes. With the gauze squares, you have to like jam a bunch in there with your fingers and s**t. With tampons, you just stick it in and pull the string and the thing plugs up the hole. Much faster and you don't have to jam in like a bunch of little gauze 4x4s with your fingertips.

[The rose in spring]

Spierred

Heimdalr

Seems very helpful and accurate. You might have intended this as a mockery, but basic tactics explained in a calm and professional manner is not something these contingents normally have the luxury of.

No, if I had meant this as a joke, I would have posted it to GD.

It's more than helpful. It's the exact same training we receive in the US Army. Hi-Lo corners, clearing rooms, moving down fatal funnels.. It's all stuff that's taught in Basic Combat Training. What I meant by the title was that this is almost irrevocable proof that they're receiving aid directly. Not just weapons, but training and mentoring.

This level of professionalism is something you see in first world militaries. Not even experienced militia groups like Taliban or the Norther Alliance are this well versed in battle drills.

That doesn't mean they received aid. They could have learned it anywhere. For all we know, Turkey could have trained them

[Spierred]

The rose in spring

Spierred

Heimdalr

Seems very helpful and accurate. You might have intended this as a mockery, but basic tactics explained in a calm and professional manner is not something these contingents normally have the luxury of.

No, if I had meant this as a joke, I would have posted it to GD.

It's more than helpful. It's the exact same training we receive in the US Army. Hi-Lo corners, clearing rooms, moving down fatal funnels.. It's all stuff that's taught in Basic Combat Training. What I meant by the title was that this is almost irrevocable proof that they're receiving aid directly. Not just weapons, but training and mentoring.

This level of professionalism is something you see in first world militaries. Not even experienced militia groups like Taliban or the Norther Alliance are this well versed in battle drills.

That doesn't mean they received aid. They could have learned it anywhere. For all we know, Turkey could have trained them

Well, that would still be foreign aid, or Unconventional Warfare. I'd say Turkey myself, but the point is that a foreign nation is now actively participating in the conflict on the side of Syria. Something that every nation so far has threatened, but none have gone through with for domestic, economic, political, and international reasons.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

Spierred

Tactical Leg Sweep

Spierred

Heimdalr

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

Kinda, except we've never bought diapers.

If someone gets shot, you can stick a tampon into the bullet hole to plug the bleeding temporarily.

4x 4s seem like they would do quite a better job.

Only application for a tampon I've seen is for epistaxis.

Nah man, tampons are definitely better for holes. With the gauze squares, you have to like jam a bunch in there with your fingers and s**t. With tampons, you just stick it in and pull the string and the thing plugs up the hole. Much faster and you don't have to jam in like a bunch of little gauze 4x4s with your fingertips.

The point of placing something against an open wound is to stimulate the clotting process. You're not SUPPOSED to pack open wounds, because it does not control bleeding well at all. If you're doing it just as a temporary stopgap you're probably just better off leaving it until you can put some actual pressure or just using a gloved hand. Packing actively bleeding traumatic wounds is a terrible terrible idea.

[Wendigo]

I feel like the lack of pressure involved in the tampon approach is a real issue, considering the blood itself is applying pressure in its bid to gush out of the body.

[Spierred]

Tactical Leg Sweep

Spierred

Tactical Leg Sweep

Spierred

Heimdalr

Spierred

"Silly civilian who don't know why we buy tampons."

Why do you buy the tampons again? Wait, was that a Generation Kill reference?

Kinda, except we've never bought diapers.

If someone gets shot, you can stick a tampon into the bullet hole to plug the bleeding temporarily.

4x 4s seem like they would do quite a better job.

Only application for a tampon I've seen is for epistaxis.

Nah man, tampons are definitely better for holes. With the gauze squares, you have to like jam a bunch in there with your fingers and s**t. With tampons, you just stick it in and pull the string and the thing plugs up the hole. Much faster and you don't have to jam in like a bunch of little gauze 4x4s with your fingertips.

The point of placing something against an open wound is to stimulate the clotting process. You're not SUPPOSED to pack open wounds, because it does not control bleeding well at all. If you're doing it just as a temporary stopgap you're probably just better off leaving it until you can put some actual pressure or just using a gloved hand. Packing actively bleeding traumatic wounds is a terrible terrible idea.

We're not doctors, and if someone has been shot, we're likely still being shot at. We can't sacrifice a member of our team to take the time and hold someone's pressure point or kneel on their arm for pressure. Stop the bleeding, get them out of there. That's pretty much the extent of what a soldier will do in a tactical environment. If a tampon, packed gauze, or a bandage won't do it, strap a tourniquet on. We don't have time to ******** with this stuff. Tampon takes like five second to stick it in. If that's not helping, tourniquet. You should not spend more than a minute treating bleeding.

Really, tourniquet is the go to solution. Some soldiers wear their tourniquet already on their arms and legs so if they take a hit, they just have to strap it down, wind it up, lock it in place. Even with more minor wounds, if you don't have the time or ability to wrap a bandage or pack it; ******** it. Slap a tourniquet on him.

If it's a body wound where a tourniquet isn't practical, packing it and wrapping it is all you have. If they're going to die, your best bet is to stop as much bleeding as possible then just get them to a ******** doctor. If they're going to die, but you can't get them out of the combat zone, you do have to sacrifice another soldier to kneel on them to stop bleeding, but now you're down two soldiers. That's 20% of a line infantry squad. If they're going to die, you can't get them to a treatment facility, and you're getting shot at, there's nothing you can do.

[Spierred]

Wendigo

I feel like the lack of pressure involved in the tampon approach is a real issue, considering the blood itself is applying pressure in its bid to gush out of the body.

The tampon is just to plug a wound. If they're gushing blood, we use a tourniquet as I described above. Most bullets leave surprisingly small entry wounds, and you usually aren't too afraid of someone bleeding out from one if you simple plug it and wrap it... but a tourniquet will never be the wrong answer (unless they were shot in the neck). If you aren't sure how bad it is, or if you're even just a bit worried that there's maybe still some bleeding, go ahead and slap a tourniquet on. It won't cause any harm, not as long as they get it off within fourteen hours, and, let's be honest, if you haven't been evacuated after fourteen hours, tissue death in a limb from the tourniquet cutting off blood is going to be one of your lesser worries.

If it really needs pressure, and we're capable of supplying that pressure without putting anyone else at risk, we'll do it.

But you can take a round to to the arm, and sticking a tampon in it and wrapping it will work just fine.

Take a round to the chest, you may need treatment for tension pneumothroax and flail chest. Take a round to the gut, you may just be ********. Take a round to the hip, you're probably ********. Take a round to an extremity, plug it, wrap it, tourniquet. Take a round to the neck, find a pressure point, but you're probably ********. Take a round to the head and miraculously survive, no one will want to touch you for fear of jarring you too hard and causing brain damage.

[Wendigo]

It also occurs to me that the tampon, while it's unlikely to stand up to two pounds per square inch of pressure from one direction, being a wad of cotton, is on the other hand capable of transferring foreign contaminants into the wound. It's also basically an enormous blood clot, which poses its own risks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrombosis

Soakin' up a nosebleed, as suggested above, or in its intended function, it's not actually in the bloodstream, just in a place where blood has collected. Its new position in the bloodstream is not super appealing.

I think I'd stick with the tourniquet, where possible, and just forget about the tampon.

[Spierred]

Wendigo

It also occurs to me that the tampon, while it's unlikely to stand up to two pounds per square inch of pressure from one direction, being a wad of cotton, is on the other hand capable of transferring foreign contaminants into the wound. It's also basically an enormous blood clot, which poses its own risks:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrombosis

Soakin' up a nosebleed, as suggested above, or in its intended function, it's not actually in the bloodstream, just in a place where blood has collected. Its new position in the bloodstream is not super appealing.

I think I'd stick with the tourniquet, where possible, and just forget about the tampon.

They're made from cellucotton, the same thing older field dressings were made out of. There was nothing wrong with older dressings, newer ones are just high speed.

Our medics say tampons work, no one has ever denied tampons work, and we've only heard good things about sticking tampons in a wound. No one has ever died from a tampon being stuck into them, and it has saved lives before.

Really, it's the exact same thing as packing a wound with gauze. WARNING: Possibly disturbing medical image

Except that you don't need to stick your fingers in the person. You just jam the tampon in. When they get to the medic or CSH, they take tampon out and the medical professionals replace it with actual, medicated gauze.

As I said before, if the bleeding is really bad, go to is tourniquet..

But lets say someone is hit in the shoulder by a 5.56 round and I'm the CLS. First thing I'd do is make sure there's no danger to me, then I'd run out to him. This part should be done in less than two minutes and only if I have a really, really solid base of fire covering me. I check for massive hemorrhaging first, because that's what's most likely to kill this guy. I see the gunshot would and immediately stick a tampon in it and check for an exit wound. If there's an exit wound that's bleeding, I'll have to pressure wrap it. Can't stick a tampon into an exit wound, don't have time to pack gauze, tourniquet won't do any good there. Finish checking for bleeding, then I check for breathing, head injury, and circulation pretty much all at the same time. That should all take me about two minutes. Pick him up, take him back out of the combat zone. Once he's to safety, check circulation, breathing, bleeding, shock, fractures, burns, head injury. If it's obvious that he wouldn't have fractures, burns, or head injury, I can skip these three. At this point, breathing and circulation are a priority over bleeding so I check that first. I recheck my pressure wrap, determining everything else is fine and preparing the casualty for shock. Let's say he's still bleeding. Oh s**t. I'd take my thumb ad press it down into his shoulder as hard as I could, hoping to get a pressure point and stop the blood from the artery at least. I may not be able to stop all the bleeding, but if I can hold off that main artery in the shoulder long enough for the medic to get over and work his little EMT magic, I may just save this guy's life.

Moral of the story, the tampon isn't going to fix a gsw. It may end up being pretty much useless.. but we may not have the time or ability to do anything else. In this case, I needed a pressure wrap because exit wounds will generally be too big for a tampon. Well, that's okay. The tampon is still helping the bleeding in the entry wound. That's all I need to keep him from dying in the next three minutes that it takes me to get him out of danger. Now that me and the casualty are no longer being shot at, I recheck the wound and see that the tampon and the pressure wrap aren't stopping the bleeding. I'm no longer in threat of being shot, so now I can safely apply pressure and wait for the medic. The tampon is a quick fix before some higher form of aid is available.

Next time we do a CLS class, I'll be sure to ask the medic again just in case.

[Plata Plomo y Sangre]

I'm a civilian paramedic, so while I don't operate under the same conditions as military medics and corpsmen, I DO know what is effective for treatment and what doesn't seem like it works very well. While the dangers of TKs have been vastly overstated, controlling bleeding by means of pressure should definitely be the go to before strapping them down.

*shrug* I've dealt with gunshot wounds before, and it doesn't actually take much to control bleeding with direct pressure and pressure points.

On a side note I don't think there's much risk of thrombosis unless there is a danger of hard parts being broken off inside of the wound. Infection is another story and packing wounds is really a skill best done by a physician, and NOT on a wound that is actively bleeding.

[God Emperor Baldur]

How do you know they didn't get this information off of Youtube?

[Spierred]

Tactical Leg Sweep

I'm a civilian paramedic, so while I don't operate under the same conditions as military medics and corpsmen, I DO know what is effective for treatment and what doesn't seem like it works very well. While the dangers of TKs have been vastly overstated, controlling bleeding by means of pressure should definitely be the go to before strapping them down.

*shrug* I've dealt with gunshot wounds before, and it doesn't actually take much to control bleeding with direct pressure and pressure points.

On a side note I don't think there's much risk of thrombosis unless there is a danger of hard parts being broken off inside of the wound. Infection is another story and packing wounds is really a skill best done by a physician, and NOT on a wound that is actively bleeding.

The problem with pressure points is that it takes me sitting there and holding his wound. I can't do that. I have to worry about him, I have to worry about myself getting shot at, I have to worry about shooting back. Pressure points may be the most effective, but in a combat situation it's also one of the most dangerous things I could do.

It's similar to CPR. We just don't do it. We will not do CPR in the field. If someone gets hit and we don't get a pulse from him, he's dead. We expose ourselves too much to possibly getting shot to attempt CPR in the field.

We used to just use quick clot. Amazing piece of space age technology. You just pour this powder into the wound and it cauterize the artery.. Only problem with that was people would open the quick clot and the ******** wind in Afghanistan would blow it into their eyes and blind them.