Snowden, the EU, South America, bears - oh my!

Snowden -

Terrorist	11.5%	[ 3 ]
Freedom fighter	23.1%	[ 6 ]
Whistleblower	38.5%	[ 10 ]
oh god stop with the shitty polls	26.9%	[ 7 ]
Total Votes:			[ 26 ]

[Heimdalr]

In recent weeks, surely you've heard of the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden and his cabal of terrorists comprising of Glenn Greenwald and half the Washington Post. The Axis of Words and Facts, as they've probably been pejoratively called not even once. (Haven't had internet in a week) They've conspired to reveal not only what we all have known for a decade, that the US is monitoring most telecommunications everywhere, but that the NSA itself is lying to the Senate in order to do so. That's the secondary topic here, though, as an internal quarrel over accountability should be a domestic issue, if it even comes to life as an impotent, timid form of half-begging the NSA to stop and we will make pancakes and brew cocoa.

The most pertinent issue is the boxing in of Evo Morales' plane over Austria, where we have seen Spain, Italy, France and Portugal - countries that formerly denounced the US for the activities described in the leaks - deny the highest tier of diplomatic envoy use of their airspace with no prior warning. The issue is one of sovereignty, and if the EU can even entertain a pretense of it any more. The issue is also one of Latin America; where such things are now being debated fiercely and terms like "act of war" are commonplace.

"We're not going to scramble jets to get this 29-year old hacker", Obama said. And he was not lying. The US would scrap that plan, save the fuel, and have their vassal states scramble their Rafales and Typhoons in case this Bolivian equivalent of Air Force One approached their borders.

This draws a few historical parallels. Alexandr Dubček under the Soviets in 1968, or Serbian nationalists under the Habsburg Empire. Pissing in these people's shoes is a foolproof recipe for backlash, and the US should know this better than anyone.

Discuss -
Does the EU really have sovereignty, do their leaders tell the public whatever they want to hear and then kiss Obama's toes with that same mouth?
Bonus: Do international air transportation treaties actually allow this at all?
Latin America. Bush was a right proper shithead, but no one act of his alienated more of them than this.
The Senate and how they are weak and therefore deserve to suffer.

[God Emperor Baldur]

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

[Heimdalr]

Lord Akhenaton

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

Yes, the fields, streets, corridors around the world are filled with the corpses of "threats", we know the terminology. A term as poorly defined as it is hard to justify using. And in this case, with literally all of the evidence to make such justification being classified, that does not comfort me, nor should it comfort anyone but the devoted shill. But even if he is a threat to this emergent borderless state corporatism and world surveillance state, I'm not opposed to him.

[God Emperor Baldur]

Heimdalr

Lord Akhenaton

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

Yes, the fields, streets, corridors around the world are filled with the corpses of "threats", we know the terminology. A term as poorly defined as it is hard to justify using. And in this case, with literally all of the evidence to make such justification being classified, that does not comfort me, nor should it comfort anyone but the devoted shill. But even if he is a threat to this emergent borderless state corporatism and world surveillance state, I'm not opposed to him.

What I don't get is why won't Venezuela charter Snowden through Siberia? It's not like there aren't planes capable of that. But from what I would guess, Russia already granted Snowden asylum.

[The Danguy]

Snowden is irrelevant, and all the press surrounding him is a perfect example of manipulation of both media and public opinion.

[Heimdalr]

The Danguy

Snowden is irrelevant, and all the press surrounding him is a perfect example of manipulation of both media and public opinion.

If he's irrelevant, is Obama then screwing over and bullying foreign leaders for his own personal amusement? Well now that I think of it, that makes sense actually. Dance, puppets.

[Wendigo]

Heimdalr

The Danguy

Snowden is irrelevant, and all the press surrounding him is a perfect example of manipulation of both media and public opinion.

If he's irrelevant, is Obama then screwing over and bullying foreign leaders for his own personal amusement? Well now that I think of it, that makes sense actually. Dance, puppets.

He wouldn't be the first irrelevant guy to drag the full force of US policy behind him.

[Chieftain Twilight]

I say bravo, Snowden! you are being more successful than I anticipated in your efforts to force a fair Trial and not a secret one! I hoped for this.

[Heimdalr]

Actually I wished Snowden to be a secondary topic here, to focus more on international politics subsisting in his wake. I know many of you currently are or will hopefully be employed in a policy analysis function and subject to gag orders, implied or otherwise. I wish I could guarantee that your personal opinion will not be subject to US intelligence agencies' scrutiny but that would be a lie.

I just opened another beer. Breznak of Lezak in Svetly. Honeyed, but still bitter lager. Don't think I'll ever buy it again but it's somewhat okay. After writing the above, definitely okay.

What I do want to discuss is the subservience of EU nations to the US alphabet agencies' not-so-subtle wish for this man to be detained, beaten and maybe put on trial for his disobedience. The moment I heard of sovereign EU nations doing a complete 180 from rhetoric and enforcing a US blockade with no prior warning, I envisioned the innocent little castle on the hills rising from its resting place and revealing a juggernaut, with battlestations ready, with hangars and cannons ready to deploy, in the multinational fascist war zeppelin.

Kind of makes me happy my country never joined the EU, and is increasingly unlikely to. It also makes me kind of unnerved that EU membership really does not make so much of a difference, that we're all ******** serfs anyhow.

[Glorious Leader Luna]

Heimdalr

Actually I wished Snowden to be a secondary topic here, to focus more on international politics subsisting in his wake. I know many of you currently are or will hopefully be employed in a policy analysis function and subject to gag orders, implied or otherwise. I wish I could guarantee that your personal opinion will not be subject to US intelligence agencies' scrutiny but that would be a lie.

I just opened another beer. Breznak of Lezak in Svetly. Honeyed, but still bitter lager. Don't think I'll ever buy it again but it's somewhat okay. After writing the above, definitely okay.

What I do want to discuss is the subservience of EU nations to the US alphabet agencies' not-so-subtle wish for this man to be detained, beaten and maybe put on trial for his disobedience. The moment I heard of sovereign EU nations doing a complete 180 from rhetoric and enforcing a US blockade with no prior warning, I envisioned the innocent little castle on the hills rising from its resting place and revealing a juggernaut, with battlestations ready, with hangars and cannons ready to deploy, in the multinational fascist war zeppelin.

Kind of makes me happy my country never joined the EU, and is increasingly unlikely to. It also makes me kind of unnerved that EU membership really does not make so much of a difference, that we're all ******** serfs anyhow.

Why do you think the US told them EU member states to keep Snowden in the EU

The EU would have a vast interest in having him themselves.

[redroosters V]

Lord Akhenaton

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

Nah, he's just an idealist who was in a position to take action, and did so. The United States does not like being rebelled against.


Everyone knew? Suuure, but everyone called me paranoid when I tried to tell y'all this was going on before all this went down.

[God Emperor Baldur]

redroosters V

Lord Akhenaton

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

Nah, he's just an idealist who was in a position to take action, and did so. The United States does not like being rebelled against.


Everyone knew? Suuure, but everyone called me paranoid when I tried to tell y'all this was going on before all this went down.

Having everyone spied on was nothing new. But he was an employee in charge of sensitive information. I doubt it's just that.

[redroosters V]

Lord Akhenaton

redroosters V

Lord Akhenaton

The ICAO actually permits that.
http://www.wing.com.ua/images/stories/library/ovd/9433.pdf

I do however think there is more to this witch hunt than just someone who leaked something everyone knew. Is he a threat? It's very possible.

Nah, he's just an idealist who was in a position to take action, and did so. The United States does not like being rebelled against.


Everyone knew? Suuure, but everyone called me paranoid when I tried to tell y'all this was going on before all this went down.

Having everyone spied on was nothing new. But he was an employee in charge of sensitive information. I doubt it's just that.

I doubt that's all he knows. He probably knows where all the black sites are too. He's not telling us that, though.

[Wendigo]

redroosters V

I doubt that's all he knows. He probably knows where all the black sites are too. He's not telling us that, though.

Doubtful, as knowing where all the black sites are was not related to his function at the consulting firm for which he worked. He wasn't freakin' Jack Bauer.

[redroosters V]

Wendigo

redroosters V

I doubt that's all he knows. He probably knows where all the black sites are too. He's not telling us that, though.

Doubtful, as knowing where all the black sites are was not related to his function at the consulting firm for which he worked. He wasn't freakin' Jack Bauer.

I got the impression that he handled all the sensitive information.


But, that could have just been mass-media scaremongering.





God, I wish Jack Bauer was real so I could interrogate him.