School shooting: In which N. America becomes a police state.

[Synoxide]

Or at least the northern half of N. America.
It was nice knowing you guys.

[Disa Uniflora]

Whee. Glad I caught this before I went to bed. Now I won't wake up like "The ******** is this s**t now...?"

[Final Lucius]

"THEY'RE COMING!! THEY'RE COMING!! THE GUN DEBATES ARE COMING! THE GUN DEBATES ARE COMING!" - Paul Revere



...seriously, that's some nice loony right wing rhetoric you got thur. Nothing will happen. Liberals will try to have "the talk" again and the NRA will babble about more guns. Same thing every time.

[Heero2334]

Final Lucius

"THEY'RE COMING!! THEY'RE COMING!! THE GUN DEBATES ARE COMING! THE GUN DEBATES ARE COMING!" - Paul Revere



...seriously, that's some nice loony right wing rhetoric you got thur. Nothing will happen. Liberals will try to have "the talk" again and the NRA will babble about more guns. Same thing every time.

Preach my friend preach. This is why we have gun laws in the first place. It's not to block the second amendment to the Constitution. It's to help protect the right of the second amendment from like this from causing theses pointless debates.

[Wendigo]

Let me get this straight.

About twenty elementary school children were just murdered, and the first thing that came to mind for you was "oh no, now they'll want my guns"?

Never mind that we have had horrific mass shootings this year in July, August, and three days ago. Which seems to warrant a look-see.

[Pipebracket]

Wendigo

Let me get this straight.

About twenty elementary school children were just murdered, and the first thing that came to mind for you was "oh no, now they'll want my guns"?

Never mind that we have had horrific mass shootings this year in July, August, and three days ago. Which seems to warrant a look-see.

I would hardly call clackamas a 'mass shooting' with a total body count of two victims and one self inflicted.

[Dysia]

Wendigo

Let me get this straight.

About twenty elementary school children were just murdered, and the first thing that came to mind for you was "oh no, now they'll want my guns"?

Never mind that we have had horrific mass shootings this year in July, August, and three days ago. Which seems to warrant a look-see.

Thousands of children are killed every day by violence. Is it justified to only pause when they are murdered in the convenience of a baker's dozen or more? Is one child's death some how insignificant unless they die in a mass shooting with others? These are obviously rhetorical questions, but the idea that we only mourn those bundled together when they die - that cheapens the deaths of others. Inevitably, in treating all these deaths equally, we come to the same conclusions that a teary eyed president fails to see: that no one really cares unless it's a child they know or feel connected to.

Which - once the deaths of kids around the world are factored in, only leaves policy changes that may affect tens of millions of people who have collectively spent billions of hours toiling to earn enough money to purchase goods that may be confiscated. Some of these people have ancestors who were victims of one of the many genocides that immediately followed virtually identical confiscations to the ones they fear in the present. Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps they are crazy - who knows? Hind-sight is 20/20, but we still have history for an example of predictable patterns. Not all gun bans lead to genocide, but all genocide is preceded by gun bans. The TSA of the present is a reactionary response to an underwear bomber who managed to kill no one. Are we somehow justified in treating the paranoia of the government as more sacrosanct than the paranoia of Armenians, Jews, Chinese, Cambodians, and Russians whose ancestors were disarmed, lined up, and shot?

[Heero2334]

Wendigo

Let me get this straight.

About twenty elementary school children were just murdered, and the first thing that came to mind for you was "oh no, now they'll want my guns"?

Never mind that we have had horrific mass shootings this year in July, August, and three days ago. Which seems to warrant a look-see.

Well you know what's going to happen. So we might as well get ourselves some popcorn and a good movie because this is going to be on the news for a while.

[Dysia]

I did some checking. Here's what I found.

so over the last 12 months, approximately 60 or less people were killed (in mass shootings) in a country with over 120 million gun owners. Meanwhile, overseas, over 300 American soldiers were killed in Afghanistan. More than four times that many Afghans were killed. So about one in 2 million gun owners will go crazy and shoot a bunch of people. Meanwhile, the Pentagon reports over 150 suicides in the military in the first half of the year.
http://www.army.mil/article/88003/Spouse_offers_final_thought_during_Suicide_Prevention_Month/
Considering the population of the military, that's about 1 in 20,000, in half the time. I find the hypocrisy revolting.

[Heero2334]

Dysia

I did some checking. Here's what I found.

so over the last 12 months, approximately 60 or less people were killed (in mass shootings) in a country with over 120 million gun owners. Meanwhile, overseas, over 300 American soldiers were killed in Afghanistan. More than four times that many Afghans were killed. So about one in 2 million gun owners will go crazy and shoot a bunch of people. Meanwhile, the Pentagon reports over 150 suicides in the military in the first half of the year.
http://www.army.mil/article/88003/Spouse_offers_final_thought_during_Suicide_Prevention_Month/
Considering the population of the military, that's about 1 in 20,000, in half the time. I find the hypocrisy revolting.

The issue is that the military is in a combat zone so it's expect for deaths to happen like that. This on the other hand is citizen on citizen violence and a world wide taboo type of violence to. So there really is no hypocrisy in this. It's just politics doing what it does best.

[Fe1ix]

Tadpole Jackson

Wendigo

Let me get this straight.

About twenty elementary school children were just murdered, and the first thing that came to mind for you was "oh no, now they'll want my guns"?

Never mind that we have had horrific mass shootings this year in July, August, and three days ago. Which seems to warrant a look-see.

I would hardly call clackamas a 'mass shooting' with a total body count of two victims and one self inflicted.

regardless of the body count, that mall was filled with lots of people so in any event that was a mass shooting. People were more prepared to hide and run away from the mall shooter than the children at this school.

[Dysia]

Heero2334

Dysia

I did some checking. Here's what I found.

so over the last 12 months, approximately 60 or less people were killed (in mass shootings) in a country with over 120 million gun owners. Meanwhile, overseas, over 300 American soldiers were killed in Afghanistan. More than four times that many Afghans were killed. So about one in 2 million gun owners will go crazy and shoot a bunch of people. Meanwhile, the Pentagon reports over 150 suicides in the military in the first half of the year.
http://www.army.mil/article/88003/Spouse_offers_final_thought_during_Suicide_Prevention_Month/
Considering the population of the military, that's about 1 in 20,000, in half the time. I find the hypocrisy revolting.

The issue is that the military is in a combat zone so it's expect for deaths to happen like that. This on the other hand is citizen on citizen violence and a world wide taboo type of violence to. So there really is no hypocrisy in this. It's just politics doing what it does best.

I don't know for certain this is citizen on citizen, but rather someone waging some kind of war, either ideologically, nationally, or one of a hundred different variants. The only other logical conclusion is that the people in question were both nut jobs and unless there's something funny in our water and/or food causing this kind of madness, there's a very low statistical probability that it will ever happen again. You know, civilians in Syria are attacking other civilians in Syria. Why does the United States believe it is immune to internal domestic struggles manifesting in the format of War Theater?

[Heimdalr]

The rifle being stolen, I don't think registration issues should be an appropriate sequitur. When you choose to debate this, bear in mind that saturation of non-secured firearms is what allows stolen weapons into this circulation. Gun cabinets seem like the obvious solution, but I know some legislators and at least a few regulars think of them as communist cages of death.

Switzerland, whose gun saturation vs. gun death statistics firearm deregulation solicitors routinely refer to in reverence, has one of the strictest policies on safe storage of the arm, where all arms are to be stored safely and "inaccessible to third parties", whereas automatic firearms are to be dismantled when not in use and the breech is to be stored separately.

[azulmagia]

Quote:

In 2008, 2,947 children and teens died from guns in the United States and 2,793 died in 2009 for a total of 5,740—one child or teen every three hours, eight every day, 55 every week for two years. The 5,740 children and teens killed by guns in 2008 and 2009:

- Would fill more than 229 public school classrooms of 25 students each;

- Was greater than the number of U.S. military personnel killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan (5,013);

- The number of preschoolers killed by guns in 2008 (8 cool and in 2009 (85) was nearly double the number of law enforcement officers killed in the line of duty in 2008 (41) and 2009 (4 cool .

.PDF document

[Wendigo]

The gun owner doesn't have to go crazy. Just a person who has access to a gun. For this one, they stole them from grandpa. Grandpa could have been the most responsible gun owner who ever owned a gun, but it still doesn't matter if his guns are in an unsecured safe in his basement and his grandkid's a psycho.