Pulpit "Freedom" Sunday ; Time to end church tax breaks

[Wendigo]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Nah, what keeps churches from having opinions is that they aren't people.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Wendigo

Old Blue Collar Joe

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Nah, what keeps churches from having opinions is that they aren't people.

And has any of the churches taken an official stance, or is it merely the preachers in those churches? (Also, if a corporation can be considered a person and have an opinion, so, too, can a church.)

[Wendigo]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Wendigo

Old Blue Collar Joe

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Nah, what keeps churches from having opinions is that they aren't people.

And has any of the churches taken an official stance, or is it merely the preachers in those churches? (Also, if a corporation can be considered a person and have an opinion, so, too, can a church.)

Corporations ain't people, either. Need a central nervous system to have an opinion.

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

Wendigo

Old Blue Collar Joe

Wendigo

Old Blue Collar Joe

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Nah, what keeps churches from having opinions is that they aren't people.

And has any of the churches taken an official stance, or is it merely the preachers in those churches? (Also, if a corporation can be considered a person and have an opinion, so, too, can a church.)

Corporations ain't people, either. Need a central nervous system to have an opinion.

Tell that to the Supreme Court. Nor am I disagreeing with you. Merely stating what the law states and, by reason, if one is 'person', then the other must also be accounted the same way.

[agrab0ekim]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How does SoCaS become a separation of non-profits?

so a political campaign fund is not allowed to endorse a candidate? Why can't the NRA or the NOW?
interesting

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How does SoCaS become a separation of non-profits?

so a political campaign fund is not allowed to endorse a candidate? Why can't the NRA or the NOW?
interesting

I'm saying if you're going to apply that rule to non-profits, which is what a church is listed as, then you have to apply it to all non-profits equally.

[Complex Systems]

I honestly have no problem with preaching from the pulpit, I think it's a stupid rule for the most part. Even though I'm fairly sure I hate the sort of thing the pastors/fathers/etc are going to say, ******** it, they have the right to say it.

[agrab0ekim]

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How does SoCaS become a separation of non-profits?

so a political campaign fund is not allowed to endorse a candidate? Why can't the NRA or the NOW?
interesting

I'm saying if you're going to apply that rule to non-profits, which is what a church is listed as, then you have to apply it to all non-profits equally.

not at all, the constitution says nothing about non profits. The reason churches (and any religious institution) is exempt is due to the fact that to tax is to regulate is to destroy, thus to tax is a violation of the first. Nothing in the first protects NPs, so they are just outta luck

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How does SoCaS become a separation of non-profits?

so a political campaign fund is not allowed to endorse a candidate? Why can't the NRA or the NOW?
interesting

I'm saying if you're going to apply that rule to non-profits, which is what a church is listed as, then you have to apply it to all non-profits equally.

not at all, the constitution says nothing about non profits. The reason churches (and any religious institution) is exempt is due to the fact that to tax is to regulate is to destroy, thus to tax is a violation of the first. Nothing in the first protects NPs, so they are just outta luck

And, as I've stated previously, the separation of church and state was to prevent a government sponsored religion, as England had. Nothing more. We've just added a lot of s**t that wasn't there and shouldn't be there.

[agrab0ekim]

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How does SoCaS become a separation of non-profits?

so a political campaign fund is not allowed to endorse a candidate? Why can't the NRA or the NOW?
interesting

I'm saying if you're going to apply that rule to non-profits, which is what a church is listed as, then you have to apply it to all non-profits equally.

not at all, the constitution says nothing about non profits. The reason churches (and any religious institution) is exempt is due to the fact that to tax is to regulate is to destroy, thus to tax is a violation of the first. Nothing in the first protects NPs, so they are just outta luck

And, as I've stated previously, the separation of church and state was to prevent a government sponsored religion, as England had. Nothing more. We've just added a lot of s**t that wasn't there and shouldn't be there.

Joe by taxing churches we would have a net impact of sponsoring some
go read the cases

[God Emperor Akhenaton]

Old Blue Collar Joe

Noogie

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How exactly is it a separation if one can meddle with the other? 'Cause I can tell you now that that is not a separation. Like, at all.

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Except that if you endorse a candidate or a political party, then your organization is no longer entitled to tax exemption.

[agrab0ekim]

God Emperor Akhenaton

Old Blue Collar Joe

Noogie

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How exactly is it a separation if one can meddle with the other? 'Cause I can tell you now that that is not a separation. Like, at all.

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Except that if you endorse a candidate or a political party, then your organization is no longer entitled to tax exemption.

stating the law counters his point how?

[Old Blue Collar Joe]

agrab0ekim

God Emperor Akhenaton

Old Blue Collar Joe

Noogie

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How exactly is it a separation if one can meddle with the other? 'Cause I can tell you now that that is not a separation. Like, at all.

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Except that if you endorse a candidate or a political party, then your organization is no longer entitled to tax exemption.

stating the law counters his point how?

I also want to know why he doesn't address that it would apply to non-profits, which enjoy tax exemption as well, and they are quite politically active most times.

[Omnileech]

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

God Emperor Akhenaton

Old Blue Collar Joe

Noogie

Old Blue Collar Joe

Gotta apply the rule to all non-profits. Separation of Church and State really just means state cannot endorse a religion. Doesn't really mean a damn thing about churches.
If this does get their status revoked, it should be applied to ALL non-profits across the board who support a particular candidate.
Of course, reality is, if they endorse a specific candidate, they should also remove any federal money they receive immediately, so that they know damn good and well it's not being done for political favor.

How exactly is it a separation if one can meddle with the other? 'Cause I can tell you now that that is not a separation. Like, at all.

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Except that if you endorse a candidate or a political party, then your organization is no longer entitled to tax exemption.

stating the law counters his point how?

I also want to know why he doesn't address that it would apply to non-profits, which enjoy tax exemption as well, and they are quite politically active most times.

Non-profits lose their status if they endorse a candidate or party. That is the STATUS QUO.

[agrab0ekim]

Omnileech

Old Blue Collar Joe

agrab0ekim

God Emperor Akhenaton

Old Blue Collar Joe

Separation of Church and state was implemented so that, unlike England, the government couldn't establish a 'government religion', it wasn't anything more than that. It doesn't mean that Churches aren't allowed to have opinions on candidates that are going against their teachings.

Except that if you endorse a candidate or a political party, then your organization is no longer entitled to tax exemption.

stating the law counters his point how?

I also want to know why he doesn't address that it would apply to non-profits, which enjoy tax exemption as well, and they are quite politically active most times.

Non-profits lose their status if they endorse a candidate or party. That is the STATUS QUO.

Omni, we are both right - 501c(3) can not (but is deductible), 501c(4) can (but is not deductible)
So three you go Joe, the church remains tax free, but it doesn't save you money to do your religious duty anymore