Obama vs Caimbridge Police - Racial issue?

[Less Than Liz]

I, for one, am SHOCKED that other policemen would back up a policeman. I also find it OUTRAGEOUS that any individual would loudly express discontent at overly aggressive police officers!

[Boo-Boo-Ah-Chu]

Less Than Liz

I, for one, am SHOCKED that other policemen would back up a policeman. I also find it OUTRAGEOUS that any individual would loudly express discontent at overly aggressive police officers!

[Wendigo]

KittyKat127

dude gates said, "you dont know who you are messing with!" that can be easily interpreted as a threat. also by law speaking in a load tone angrily at another person is called assault (verbal) and you can be arrested for it.

Assault, by law, is the threat of imminent physical violence. Under US law in particular, it's an attempt to inflict bodily injury. (Battery is a successful attempt.) Shouting does not qualify.

"You don't know who you're messing with" was indeed a threat, but it was a threat of litigation, as Gates had already made Crowley aware that he is a Harvard Professor. (Who could presumably sue, as Harvard pays well and produces lawyers.)

Mokie7

1) It's a race issue. The officer had no other reason or explanation for why this ended in an arrest.

On that point I disagree; the officer had the same reason he would have had for wrongfully arresting a white man in his own home. Insulting an officer. Not an offense under the law, but one that is punished nearly as aggressively.

[GunsmithKitten]

BlueCollarJoe

dotanuki

Redem

As has been covered in another thread, the police were stupid to arrest someone and treat them as a criminal after multiple forms of photo ID were presented. They could and should have acted civilly in that case and simply taken steps to affirm the ID was genuine instead of hauling the guy of in a police car.

Do you have a source on the fact that the gentleman in question presented the ID's and was THEN arrested? I heard he presented no ID, and if he did, that changes things a bit.

He did, eventually, present ID's, while insulting the officer, his lineage, and screaming racism. He wasn't arrested for B&E. He was arrested for disturbing the peace.

Hence why I have to file this under both sides being idiots.

Cop had no reason to continue when he saw this was the man's own house.

Professor should have kept his big mouth shut.

President should have kept his big mouth shut.

No winners.

[Master SBK]

eh, tough case for all sides involved as well as stupidity to go around as well.

Police were called in for a possible B&E. They had to at least check it out. However, when they realized that the man was actually a resident, they should've let it go.

Gates was just trying to get into his own house. Undoubtedly, as a Black man living in America, he has faced prejudice throughout the years, and for the police to come in when he was HOME, that probably stirred quite a lot of emotions for him. But, that doesn't mean he should've been screaming for minutes on end.

Obama can't exactly defend the police w/out receiving criticism. He can't defend Gates without receiving criticism. Can't really win either way so he should've just not commented.

You know who the real scapegoat should be in this case? The "good Samaritan" who called this in to begin with.

[Wendigo]

Master SBK

You know who the real scapegoat should be in this case? The "good Samaritan" who called this in to begin with.

That's what I think. A daring daylight burglary in an upscale neighborhood six minutes from the police precinct is unlikely enough to take a second look at.

[Dubyamn]

Wendigo

They're both pretty close. If Google Maps is any indication, then if it took any longer than six minutes for Crowley to get inside, acquire Gates' bona fides, and step back out, then an officer would have already arrived from the precinct house (125 6th street) before the Harvard Police were even called. If they redirected an officer on patrol who was closer, it would be less time.

I'm not sure which part of campus they'd dispatch campus police from, but if they both started at the same time (which they didn't), campus police would have an advantage.

So really the entire confrontation from first calling to arrest could have been a 10 minute window shorter even if any of them were out on patrol?

Quote:

]Top of page 2; "I asked if he would step onto the porch and speak with me." Middle of that paragraph; "I assured him that I was responding to a call and that the caller was outside." Middle of page two; "I told Gates that I was leaving, and that I would speak to him outside."

Top of the next paragraph; "I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside."

like I said the cop asked him once to step outside. After that he said that he would be leaving and if Gates wanted to talk he could talk outside.

Quote:

Followed by; "At least seven unidentified passers-by were watching Gates, who had followed me outside of the residence."

Yes Gates followed outside something he wasn't forced to do.

Quote:

Offhand, it could have something to do with being nearly sixty and clearly having bad eyes.

Which would explain the glasses on his face. Doesn't explain why the hell he has them if he can't read a badge and name tag.

Quote:

Could be, although if you're going to sue for wrongful arrest, it helps to know who wrongfully arrested you.

So him taking the initiative in building up a case for wrongful arrest is what got him arrested? It's brilliant in it's irony.

[Wendigo]

Dubyamn

So really the entire confrontation from first calling to arrest could have been a 10 minute window shorter even if any of them were out on patrol?

Having trouble understanding what you're getting at. In any case, the circumstance that originally brought Crowley to the scene was that when they got a call from Walen, they directed the nearest car to the scene. Presumably something similar happened with Figueroa when Crowley radio'd ECC before talking to Gates.

Quote:

Quote:

]Top of page 2; "I asked if he would step onto the porch and speak with me." Middle of that paragraph; "I assured him that I was responding to a call and that the caller was outside." Middle of page two; "I told Gates that I was leaving, and that I would speak to him outside."

Top of the next paragraph; "I again told Gates that I would speak with him outside."

like I said the cop asked him once to step outside. After that he said that he would be leaving and if Gates wanted to talk he could talk outside.

Like I said, the first thing the cop did was try to get Gates to come outside, then he repeated the attempt four times. His fifth attempt was the successful one, and resulted in the arrest. Since it is not possible to disturb the peace by lecturing a cop in your own kitchen.

Quote:

Yes Gates followed outside something he wasn't forced to do.

Certainly not forced, but strongly encouraged. Perhaps as though SOP were involved.

Quote:

Which would explain the glasses on his face. Doesn't explain why the hell he has them if he can't read a badge and name tag.

Even with glasses, not everybody gets 20/20 vision. Some people are legally blind even with them. I don't know what Gates' prescription is or how good his vision is while he's wearing it, but making out small details at arm's length could be beyond him.

Quote:

So him taking the initiative in building up a case for wrongful arrest is what got him arrested? It's brilliant in it's irony.

I wouldn't say that, it sure looks like he was going to be arrested starting with saying "No I will not" when Crowley asked him to come outside.

[BlueCollarJoe]

Master SBK

eh, tough case for all sides involved as well as stupidity to go around as well.

Police were called in for a possible B&E. They had to at least check it out. However, when they realized that the man was actually a resident, they should've let it go.

Gates was just trying to get into his own house. Undoubtedly, as a Black man living in America, he has faced prejudice throughout the years, and for the police to come in when he was HOME, that probably stirred quite a lot of emotions for him. But, that doesn't mean he should've been screaming for minutes on end.

Obama can't exactly defend the police w/out receiving criticism. He can't defend Gates without receiving criticism. Can't really win either way so he should've just not commented.

You know who the real scapegoat should be in this case? The "good Samaritan" who called this in to begin with.

Actually, according to Gates own comments, he stated he'd never had anything like that happen. He may teach black history, but he never was victim of it, in his own words.
Still wasn't. Most smart criminals, in spite of what everyone seem to think, prefer daylight work, because most folks are at work and think 'What kind of idiot robs in daytime?'
The cop, as has been noted numerous times, teaches racial profiling, and has done so for five years, which assists fellow officers in avoiding falling into that rut. His co-instructor is an african american who likes teaching the class with him.
He also is the same officer that tried to save Reggie Lewis of the NBA when he died by performing CPR. Don't know the rest of you, but I can't name one racist that would perform CPR on a minority.

[Dubyamn]

Wendigo

Having trouble understanding what you're getting at. In any case, the circumstance that originally brought Crowley to the scene was that when they got a call from Walen, they directed the nearest car to the scene. Presumably something similar happened with Figueroa when Crowley radio'd ECC before talking to Gates.

I'm getting at the fact that in all likely hood the entire thing was no more time consuming than a traffic stop.

Quote:

Like I said, the first thing the cop did was try to get Gates to come outside, then he repeated the attempt four times. His fifth attempt was the successful one, and resulted in the arrest. Since it is not possible to disturb the peace by lecturing a cop in your own kitchen.

He only asked him to step out once. After that he never asked Gates to step out again because he had no more business being in the house and was leaving.

Quote:

Certainly not forced, but strongly encouraged. Perhaps as though SOP were involved.

No cop said he was leaving and that if Gates wanted to continue the conversation it would have to be outside while he left.

Quote:

Even with glasses, not everybody gets 20/20 vision. Some people are legally blind even with them. I don't know what Gates' prescription is or how good his vision is while he's wearing it, but making out small details at arm's length could be beyond him.

Somehow I doubt that a successful and well respected professor remains that way when he has trouble reading something at arm's length. But maybe you are right and he is unable to read a nametag and number. Why continue to confrontation instead of calling the precint and asking them for the officer's name and badge?

There are many ways to get a name and badge number yelling at an officer and then yelling over him when he tries to respond isn't one of them.

Quote:

I wouldn't say that, it sure looks like he was going to be arrested starting with saying "No I will not" when Crowley asked him to come outside.

Why does it look like he's going to be arrested? Also why exactly would he want to get the name and badge number of the officer if he thought he was going to be arrested when all that information is on the arrest report?

[Wendigo]

Dubyamn

I'm getting at the fact that in all likely hood the entire thing was no more time consuming than a traffic stop.

Some traffic stops take quite a while.

Quote:

He only asked him to step out once. After that he never asked Gates to step out again because he had no more business being in the house and was leaving.

The other times he just mentions outside as if he wants Gates to go there for some reason.

Quote:

Somehow I doubt that a successful and well respected professor remains that way when he has trouble reading something at arm's length. But maybe you are right and he is unable to read a nametag and number. Why continue to confrontation instead of calling the precint and asking them for the officer's name and badge?

...He was on the phone with the precinct shortly before being arrested.

I frankly doubt that they would be more forthcoming with Crowley's information that Crowley was. (Although according to Crowley he did give his name two or three times.) Poor OPSEC, at least, to give that information out to anyone who calls.

As for no longer being a successful and well-respected professor because your eyesight is poor, I don't think it works like that. To start off with, successful professors get tenure, after which point they are pretty much guaranteed all the steak they can eat and a good parking space. Plus, not only does your job mainly consist of knowing things and telling them to people, you have assistants to help you grade papers. Even if you couldn't put on your bifocals for that.

Quote:

There are many ways to get a name and badge number yelling at an officer and then yelling over him when he tries to respond isn't one of them.

I agree, he didn't take a very productive approach toward getting that information.

Quote:

Why does it look like he's going to be arrested?

Because he sassed a cop, how many cops you know, dude?

[Dubyamn]

Wendigo

Some traffic stops take quite a while.

Yes but the average traffic stop without any suprises is over and done with inside of 10 minutes.

Quote:

The other times he just mentions outside as if he wants Gates to go there for some reason.

Yes because he is leaving the house.

Quote:

]...He was on the phone with the precinct shortly before being arrested.

I frankly doubt that they would be more forthcoming with Crowley's information that Crowley was. (Although according to Crowley he did give his name two or three times.) Poor OPSEC, at least, to give that information out to anyone who calls.

The information is available to anybody who calls the same way it is available to anybody who has eyes or reads the reports. Police don't hide badge numbers or names because they are the police not the CIA.

Quote:

As for no longer being a successful and well-respected professor because your eyesight is poor, I don't think it works like that. To start off with, successful professors get tenure, after which point they are pretty much guaranteed all the steak they can eat and a good parking space. Plus, not only does your job mainly consist of knowing things and telling them to people, you have assistants to help you grade papers. Even if you couldn't put on your bifocals for that.

No your job consists of doing research and remaining informed about advancements in your field. If you can't read because your eyesight is gone you can't have your assistant in your office reading every paper that you want to read and reading your correspondence with colleagues as well as the peer reviews of your work.

Quote:

I agree, he didn't take a very productive approach toward getting that information.

Probably the least productive approach.

Quote:

Because he sassed a cop, how many cops you know, dude?

Personally? None. How many cops have I met who let me go after I sassed em? 3.

[TheTick900]

BlueCollarJoe

The cop, as has been noted numerous times, teaches racial profiling, and has done so for five years, which assists fellow officers in avoiding falling into that rut. His co-instructor is an african american who likes teaching the class with him.
He also is the same officer that tried to save Reggie Lewis of the NBA when he died by performing CPR. Don't know the rest of you, but I can't name one racist that would perform CPR on a minority.

Doesn't matter if this cop tried to save the life of Ghandi in the past, doesn't excuse any mis-conduct performed in the present. Take the case of Sgt. Robert McFarland a veteran on the Lincoln Park PD for 21 years and an awarded officer. Badly mishandles a 911 call and arrests a girl on false charges.

There is no doubt in my mind that Crowley badly handled the burglary lead:

Lowry Heussler

A couple of years ago, my neighbor locked herself out and figured she could save the locksmith charge if she could get to an unlocked door on her second floor porch. A Cambridge police officer happened by and helped us carry an extension ladder across the street from my garage. He even held the ladder steady while my nimble neighbor ascended to the porch. The police officer never asked two laughing Caucasian women to prove we were not burglars.

We all know that race and sex explain the difference in the way Sgt. James Crowley treated Professor Gates, but I'd like to leave that to the side for now. The incendiary issue of race in policing diverts public attention from examining the foundation of Crowley's misconduct. When addressing basic errors in law and fact can solve a problem, we should start there before tackling the enormous and slippery issues of race and crime investigation. We're all talking about whether Lucia Whalen should have called the police and whether race was a factor in Sgt. Crowley's deplorable treatment of Gates, but so far, I have seen no straightforward analysis of Crowley's own account of his actions.

Sgt. Crowley's report almost certainly contains intentional falsehoods, but even accepting his account at face value, the report tells us all we need to conclude that Crowley was in the wrong here, and by a large factor.

The crime of disorderly conduct, beloved by cops who get into arguments with citizens, requires that the public be involved. Here's the relevant law from the Massachusetts Appeals Court, with citations and quotations omitted:

The statute authorizing prosecutions for disorderly conduct, G.L. c. 272, § 53, has been saved from constitutional infirmity by incorporating the definition of "disorderly" contained in § 250.2(1)(a) and (c) of the Model Penal Code. The resulting definition of "disorderly" includes only those individuals who, "with purpose to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof ... (a) engage in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior; or ... (c) create a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.' "Public" is defined as affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access.

The lesson most cops understand (apart from the importance of using the word "tumultuous," which features prominently in Crowley's report) is that a person cannot violate 272/53 by yelling in his own home.

Read Crowley's report and stop on page two when he admits seeing Gates's Harvard photo ID. I don't care what Gates had said to him up until then, Crowley was obligated to leave. He had identified Gates. Any further investigation of Gates' right to be present in the house could have been done elsewhere. His decision to call HUPD seems disproportionate, but we could give him points for thoroughness if he had made that call from his car while keeping an eye on the house. Had a citizen refused to leave Gates' home after being told to, the cops could have made an arrest for trespass.

But for the sake of education, let's watch while Crowley makes it worse. Read on. He's staying put in Gates' home, having been asked to leave, and Gates is demanding his identification. What does Crowley do? He suggests that if Gates wants his name and badge number, he'll have to come outside to get it. What? Crowley may be forgiven for the initial approach and questioning, but surely he should understand that a citizen will be miffed at being questioned about his right to be in his own home. Perhaps Crowley could commit the following sentences to memory: "I'm sorry for disturbing you," and "I'm glad you're all right."

Spoiling for a fight, Crowley refuses to repeat his name and badge number. Most of us would hand over a business card or write the information on a scrap of paper. No, Crowley is upset and he's mad at Gates. He's been accused of racism. Nobody likes that, but if a cop can't take an insult without retaliating, he's in the wrong job. When a person is given a gun and a badge, we better make sure he's got a firm grasp on his temper. If Crowley had called Gates a name, I'd be disappointed in him, but Crowley did something much worse. He set Gates up for a criminal charge to punish Gates for his own embarrassment.

By telling Gates to come outside, Crowley establishes that he has lost all semblance of professionalism. It has now become personal and he wants to create a violation of 272/53. He gets Gates out onto the porch because a crowd has gathered providing onlookers who could experience alarm. Note his careful recitation (tumultuous behavior outside the residence in view of the public). And please do not overlook Crowley's final act of provocation. He tells an angry citizen to calm down while producing handcuffs. The only plausible question for the chief to ask about that little detail is: "Are you stupid, or do you think I'm stupid?" Crowley produced those handcuffs to provoke Gates and then arrested him. The decision to arrest is telling. If Crowley believed the charge was valid, he could have issued a summons. An arrest under these circumstances shows his true intent: to humiliate Gates.

No one who is familiar with law enforcement can miss the significance of Crowley's report. As so often happens with documentary evidence, a person seeking to create a false impression spends lots of time nailing down the elements he thinks will establish his goal, but forgets about the larger picture. Under color of law, Crowley entered a residence to investigate a possible break-in, and after his probable cause had evaporated, he continued to act under color of law, but without any justifiable purpose. And he covered it up with false charges. Figuring that his best defense was a criminal charge, Crowley did what bad cops do. He decided he would look better if Gates looked worse. Perhaps one day cops will figure out that trumped-up charges worsen a case of investigating something that turns out not to have been a crime. It is horribly wrong when police officers falsely accuse an injured arrestee of A&B PO ("assault and battery on a police officer," a felony) but at least there is some logic to the lie. If a disorderly conduct charge follows an investigation of a non-crime, chances are pretty good that the cop handled himself badly. Pursuit of charges should be strongly disfavored.

The lying matters. I'm afraid that part of the decision to nolle prosse the case stems from the CPD's reluctance to have Mr. Ogletree produce evidence contradicting Crowley's statements.

I'm not surprised that the CPD backed away from this, but I take a hard line on completing an investigation, regardless of whether Gates pushes for one. I've detailed what I think are serious abuses of authority by Crowley, even if his report is taken as true, but I am also very concerned about "testilying" in police reports. Most of us would be fired for giving our employer a false report, even if it concerned relatively minor matters. Employers need to know they can trust us. When a person is prosecuted in the name of the Commonwealth, a testifying police officer is essentially the eyes and ears of the citizenry. Don't lie when you're my agent.

If Crowley lied about Gates' statements, he should not be permitted to investigate crimes ever again. Investigation for the government is a sacred responsibility. Unless Cambridge investigates and acts properly, we're ratifying his actions. We're also putting the public at risk of false arrest and police persecution. Lying cops are like biting dogs. After the first bite we can't say we weren't warned. Conservatives love "zero tolerance" for crime. Could we have zero tolerance for testilying?

People scoff at the idea of disciplining a cop for lying in a report, let alone firing a cop for a single episode of lying. Complete truthfulness in the police may be an impossible dream. But the goal of policing is a crime-free community, isn't it? The police have to keep working toward the unattainable goal of eliminating crime. The rest of us should be uncompromising in our efforts to eliminate police misconduct.

[Master SBK]

BlueCollarJoe

Actually, according to Gates own comments, he stated he'd never had anything like that happen. He may teach black history, but he never was victim of it, in his own words.

o plz. You don't need to be arrested by the police to feel racially prejudiced against during your life.

Quote:

Still wasn't. Most smart criminals, in spite of what everyone seem to think, prefer daylight work, because most folks are at work and think 'What kind of idiot robs in daytime?'

that's true to a certain extent. But he was still entering his own house. I wouldn't particularly enjoy a visit from the police if they thought that I was B&E into my own house. With this being said, I don't think Gates should've acted the way he did, a point i emphasized earlier. but on the flip side, the police also need to understand the context of the situation. They're not exactly a friendly presence to a completely innocent man; an innocence which was proven early on.

Quote:

The cop, as has been noted numerous times, teaches racial profiling, and has done so for five years, which assists fellow officers in avoiding falling into that rut. His co-instructor is an african american who likes teaching the class with him.
He also is the same officer that tried to save Reggie Lewis of the NBA when he died by performing CPR. Don't know the rest of you, but I can't name one racist that would perform CPR on a minority.

I never insinuated that the cop himself was racist. He just handled the situation terribly.

[Silvia Crow]

Mister Wilde

It already was a "racial incident," Obama didn't turn it into one. I fully support him here, I don't think you can deny that the police were in the wrong, nor that it would have gone differently if Gates were a white man.

It was a racial issue when Gates turned it into one with his "a black in America" comment. Obama was just an idiot for commenting on an incident without having the proper ammount of information.