Obama vs Caimbridge Police - Racial issue?

[Dubyamn]

Wendigo

Now THAT sounds like a guess to me. How long has professor Gates lived on Ware street? How long has Ms. Walen worked (or lived, or both) on Ware street? In that period of time, how many times could they reasonably have seen one another going about their business? I would think that they'd stand a good chance of seeing one another and even interacting prior to this if Walen's worked there more than a month or so, since presumably Gates has lived near Harvard (and, I would conjecture based on his age, in his present home) a while.

It stands to reason that the longer they've both inhabited buildings on the street, the more chances they'd have to see one another going in or out for various reasons.

How is all of this any less of a guess? We don't know what hours he keeps or what hours she keeps. Hell we don't even know Gates' route into work.

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As far as recognizing him while he's breaking into a house goes, I would think that the connection between Gates and the house would not be hard to make if she were able to recognize him under any other circumstances. There's nothing to stop you from getting a positive ID on a perp (or in this case, on a neighbor) when you're standing across the street and it's between noon and one pm, I would think.

Well besides the innate fear of being seen by the people breaking in which for a 40 year old woman probably isn't nill.

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]A map like this? Because the one crime it turned up when I searched the actual address was somebody getting coffee thrown in their face at the beginning of last month. I can find some areas of town with more crimes in them, like this, that, and the other.

When all that comes up for all of Cambridge is5 assualts and a shooting I'm going to doubt that this is a exastive rundown of all crime throughout Cambridge.
Police reports are the way to go.

You know just one of those things.

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There's no reason to ignore it anywhere, but I do find it surprising that they can be affiliated with the same university, come and go on the same street, and yet be unfamiliar enough to call the police on one another when they lose their keys.

Did you know everybody in your university? Mine was a rather small liberal arts college many times smaller than Harvard and I wouldn't have felt comfortable to pick out every member of the student body or faculty from the back across the street.

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]Opened door = invited in?

Yeah you crack the door and talk to them behind the crack if they aren't allowed in. Opening the door to let somebody in is usually the way you invite/allow a person into your house.

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It seemed to me that the majority of the exchange occurred approximately between Gates' kitchen (where his phone was) and his foyer (where I would guess Crowley was).

Crowley mentions the acoustics of the Kitchen and Foyer so I'm guessing that Crowley at least followed him into the kitchen for a little bit.

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Seems to me that Crowley went outside (from the foyer, which is pretty much outside anyway) after getting ahold of Gates' university ID, when he switched to channel 2 and radio'd the ECC and the Harvard Police, on the second paragraph of the second page.

Yes which is why the Harvard Police which are specifically mentioned in the report as being there.

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At some point after this, officer Figueroa arrives with Crowley still in the doorway arguing with Gates. Around then Crowley leaves the doorway area, suggesting to Gates (for the third time) that he will be willing to talk if Gates will come outside. Gates shouts some things which aren't in the report, which Crowley interprets as his becoming disorderly, and handcuffs him.

After 2 warnings that Gates ignored completely and several attempts by the police officer to break off and leave him to his business.

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About there a maintenance person from Harvard comes to take custody of Gates' house, and Gates is fetched a cane from the house.

True.

[Wendigo]

Dubyamn

How is all of this any less of a guess? We don't know what hours he keeps or what hours she keeps. Hell we don't even know Gates' route into work.

I grant that it's a guess, but I think that it's the more plausible of the two guesses. Since guessing that people who reside in/work in buildings across the street from one another have seen one another before is generally a safer bet than that they have never seen one another. Obviously Walen didn't recognize Gates in this case, but I would still bet that she'd seen him before and just didn't bother to get a closer look this time because of what she assumed he was doing.

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When all that comes up for all of Cambridge is5 assualts and a shooting I'm going to doubt that this is a exastive rundown of all crime throughout Cambridge.

What I get, searching Cambridge from today back to today last year, is two robberies, one shooting, six assaults, one missing person, one perp search, and that coffee incident. The coffee incident is the one I get from searching the vicinity of our alleged burglary.

The reason I used spotcrime, of course, was that you mentioned the map; what more reliable map did you have in mind?

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Did you know everybody in your university? Mine was a rather small liberal arts college many times smaller than Harvard and I wouldn't have felt comfortable to pick out every member of the student body or faculty from the back across the street.

Was I employed by it, or a student? Was the "everybody" I had to know a student, or a member of the faculty? If I were an employee and it was in question whether I knew a faculty member, I would expect to know them, especially given that I evidently work across the street from their house.

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Crowley mentions the acoustics of the Kitchen and Foyer so I'm guessing that Crowley at least followed him into the kitchen for a little bit.

My guess is that the front door leads into the foyer, and that the kitchen is off to one side from the foyer. That's what the house I live in is like, for example. The kitchen is about four feet from the door and to the left. Hence, the acoustics in the kitchen (where Gates was on the phone) would influence the acoustics in the foyer (where Crowley would be in my reconstruction). However, I would further conjecture that it was not in fact the acoustics that he left the foyer for the sake of, but rather 1. the radio signal and 2. the irate home-owner. Handheld radios are crap for signal, and Gates was clearly making a nuisance of himself.

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Yes which is why the Harvard Police which are specifically mentioned in the report as being there.

After he radios for them. This is a couple paragraphs after Gates hands over his ID. How much time has elapsed by that point is unclear, but we know that Crowley arrives alone and radios for support from ECC before talking with Gates, and that he radios for Harvard Police sometime in the middle of talking/arguing/shouting with Gates, before Figueroa arrives. He is still talking/arguing/shouting with Gates when Figueroa and the Harvard Police arrive; I would suppose that Figueroa arrived earliest, because he was called for first, and that Harvard Police, the spectators and Harvard maintenance arrived last.

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After 2 warnings that Gates ignored completely and several attempts by the police officer to break off and leave him to his business.

Where do you find that? What I find is several attempts by Crowley to get Gates to leave the house. Gates was focused instead on getting Crowley's information down to give the chief on the one hand, and insulting Crowley's mom on the other hand.

[Lord Cameron]

lol Cambridge police report!

BLITZ RAPEEEEE

[KittyKat127]

first off gates should have showed id that he lived there. black or white if some sees someone breaking into a home would call the police. end of story

also the reason he was arrested mainly is because he was dumb enough to say " you dont who you are messing with" now i know he met that he lives there and he was a professor. but the cop didnt know that. remember gates would not show his id that it was truly him. so anyone will think first--he's threatening me. i would for sure. gates made it a racial issue. officer did what he should have done. he doesnt know if that it is gates, and this man is yelling a screaming at him and not willing to show his id that it is truly him. if i was a cop i would take his a** to jail too. i would have not said sorry about it because gates made the choice to not prove who he is. it would've been sorry for taking your time have a nice rest of the day if gates just did that one thing.

so the real question is--does he have a neighbor that is a racist that wanted to mess with him? from the picture i saw it was during the day time. someone called on gates. cop was just doing his job. the fact that obama was dumb enough to say that it was the cops fault shows how ignorant that man is. if he didnt get all the facts, he should be smart enough to get the facts before opening his mouth.

[dotanuki]

Redem

As has been covered in another thread, the police were stupid to arrest someone and treat them as a criminal after multiple forms of photo ID were presented. They could and should have acted civilly in that case and simply taken steps to affirm the ID was genuine instead of hauling the guy of in a police car.

Do you have a source on the fact that the gentleman in question presented the ID's and was THEN arrested? I heard he presented no ID, and if he did, that changes things a bit.

[BlueCollarJoe]

dotanuki

Redem

As has been covered in another thread, the police were stupid to arrest someone and treat them as a criminal after multiple forms of photo ID were presented. They could and should have acted civilly in that case and simply taken steps to affirm the ID was genuine instead of hauling the guy of in a police car.

Do you have a source on the fact that the gentleman in question presented the ID's and was THEN arrested? I heard he presented no ID, and if he did, that changes things a bit.

He did, eventually, present ID's, while insulting the officer, his lineage, and screaming racism. He wasn't arrested for B&E. He was arrested for disturbing the peace.

[dotanuki]

BlueCollarJoe

dotanuki

Redem

As has been covered in another thread, the police were stupid to arrest someone and treat them as a criminal after multiple forms of photo ID were presented. They could and should have acted civilly in that case and simply taken steps to affirm the ID was genuine instead of hauling the guy of in a police car.

Do you have a source on the fact that the gentleman in question presented the ID's and was THEN arrested? I heard he presented no ID, and if he did, that changes things a bit.

He did, eventually, present ID's, while insulting the officer, his lineage, and screaming racism. He wasn't arrested for B&E. He was arrested for disturbing the peace.

If he presented the ID's AFTER he got belligerent, he needs to STFU about the racism bullshit. People get tazered for that sort of s**t, and then cry about it, and it irritates me because when a case DOES pop up that involves prejudice, it makes it look like a case of someone crying wolf, and those DO occur. I think Obama needs to look more into the details of how both parties behaved.

[BlueCollarJoe]

dotanuki

BlueCollarJoe

dotanuki

Redem

As has been covered in another thread, the police were stupid to arrest someone and treat them as a criminal after multiple forms of photo ID were presented. They could and should have acted civilly in that case and simply taken steps to affirm the ID was genuine instead of hauling the guy of in a police car.

Do you have a source on the fact that the gentleman in question presented the ID's and was THEN arrested? I heard he presented no ID, and if he did, that changes things a bit.

He did, eventually, present ID's, while insulting the officer, his lineage, and screaming racism. He wasn't arrested for B&E. He was arrested for disturbing the peace.

If he presented the ID's AFTER he got belligerent, he needs to STFU about the racism bullshit. People get tazered for that sort of s**t, and then cry about it, and it irritates me because when a case DOES pop up that involves prejudice, it makes it look like a case of someone crying wolf, and those DO occur. I think Obama needs to look more into the details of how both parties behaved.

He was belligerent both before and after the ID's were presented. The Cop in question has a proven history of not being racist, and was the same one that attempted to save Reggie Lewis after his heart attack, and is also well thought of by all officers he works with, of all ethnicities.
Has anyone bothered to mention he teaches a racial profiling class, and has, for five years, and is respected as thorough and unbiased?

[JettaKD]

Found scans of the police report!

http://gawker.com/5318918/black-professor-and-white-lady-reenact-crash-in-cambridge

[Omnileech]

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Actually no I don't. According to you it only needs to be a few hours of sleep deprivation in order to be harmful to health and yet several hours of additional stress.

Now you're resorting to lying?

This is what you said earlier.

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the people who play loud music at all hours of the night

ALL HOURS OF THE NIGHT sure sounds like more than three. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH AND STOP LYING.

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You could try to do some research. The Queen's peace has been part of the british common law since before 1714. We based many of our early rulings on British law even the belief that the Supreme court can declare a law unconstitutional comes from a similar ruling in Great Britain. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_peace

So really it's not surprising that we kept the idea of the Queen's peace while scrubbing the royalty out of it and adding a misdemeanor charge to it.

Looks like someone is intentionally misusing English Law.

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The concept of a "breach of the peace" is more widely used in English law, however. Theoretically all criminal offences cognizable by English law involve "a breach of the Queen's peace", and all indictments conclude "against the peace of our Lady the Queen, her crown and dignity".
Historically this phrase, now legally superfluous, represents the last trace of the process by which the royal courts assume jurisdiction over all offences, and gradually eroded the jurisdiction of the sheriff and of lords of manor and franchises, making crime a matter of national concern as distinguished from civil wrongs or infractions of the rights of local magnates. The Peace of the King was sworn on his accession or full recognition, and the jurisdiction of his courts to punish all violations of that peace was gradually asserted. The completion of this process is marked by the institution of the office of Justice of the Peace.
In the United Kingdom, although not a statutory offence but a common law offence, "breach of the peace" is widely used.[1] In the United Kingdom, constables (or citizens) are permitted to arrest a person to "prevent a further breach of the peace" which allows to the police or public arrest a person before a breach of the peace has occurred. This is permitted when it is reasonable to believe should the person remain, that they would continue with their course of conduct and that a Breach of the Peace would occur. Breach of the Peace is usually used to remove violent or potentially violent offenders from a scene rapidly; the only punishment that can be inflicted by a court for this offence is to bind over the offender to keep the peace. There are some minor differences between English law and Scots law in relation to breach of the peace.
The conclusion has also found its way into constitutional law in many United States state constitutions, which mandate that indictments within the state end in a similar manner to the above, usually omitting the "crown" part or substituting "government". For example New Jersey's is "against the peace of this State, the government and dignity of the same".

Removing violent or potentially voice people? That sounds just like what I said earlier and nothing like what you said. When debating a point you should use sources that don't blow your argument out of the water. Was Gates violent or potentially violent? NOPE! Therefore No reason to arrest him!

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Which it was once he provided ID to show that he did live there.

Except that wasn't the end of it. After it was established that he had lived there and that the report of someone breaking in was groundless and misinformed did the police officer apologize for inconviencing the man? Nope! The Police officer arrested him.

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Charges were dropped because of who he is not based on any facts of the case.

Baseless bullshit is baseless. Maybe charges were dropped cause Gates did absolutely nothing worth arresting him for?

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Huh? what words am I putting in your mouth?

Tons, apparently. You've even tried to change what you said earlier to try to make some straw man point against me. It's pretty pathetic.

[BlueCollarJoe]

So getting belligerent and baselessly automatically accusing someone of being racist while yelling at them is fine and dandy. Gotcha.

[Omnileech]

BlueCollarJoe

So getting belligerent and baselessly automatically accusing someone of being racist while yelling at them is fine and dandy. Gotcha.

Why do you hate freedom of speech so much?

[BlueCollarJoe]

Omnileech

BlueCollarJoe

So getting belligerent and baselessly automatically accusing someone of being racist while yelling at them is fine and dandy. Gotcha.

Why do you hate freedom of speech so much?

Nothing to do with freedom of speech. Why do you hate white folks so much and automatically make them guilty and claim the black did nothing out of line?

[Omnileech]

BlueCollarJoe

Omnileech

BlueCollarJoe

So getting belligerent and baselessly automatically accusing someone of being racist while yelling at them is fine and dandy. Gotcha.

Why do you hate freedom of speech so much?

Nothing to do with freedom of speech. Why do you hate white folks so much and automatically make them guilty and claim the black did nothing out of line?

You have got to be ******** kidding me. Accusing someone of being racist is protected speech. Belligerent speech, rude speech and attitude is protected speech. The man had a constitutional right to act the way he did and what do you do? You support arresting him for it! You hate the first amendment! Don't back out of it now that you've been called on it! You don't support the first amendment when you don't agree with what the people have to say!

Don't change the subject by calling me a racist.

[BlueCollarJoe]

Omnileech

BlueCollarJoe

Omnileech

BlueCollarJoe

So getting belligerent and baselessly automatically accusing someone of being racist while yelling at them is fine and dandy. Gotcha.

Why do you hate freedom of speech so much?

Nothing to do with freedom of speech. Why do you hate white folks so much and automatically make them guilty and claim the black did nothing out of line?

You have got to be ******** kidding me. Accusing someone of being racist is protected speech. Belligerent speech, rude speech and attitude is protected speech. The man had a constitutional right to act the way he did and what do you do? You support arresting him for it! You hate the first amendment! Don't back out of it now that you've been called on it! You don't support the first amendment when you don't agree with what the people have to say!

Don't change the subject by calling me a racist.

You show the traits. He's loud and disturbing the peace. He got arrested after he came out his door and continued to show his a**. Nothing more to it.