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Do you like Ron Paul?

Yes, I do 0.275 27.5% [ 11 ]
Yes, but I won't be voting for him 0.175 17.5% [ 7 ]
Yes, but he's a crazy person! 0.1 10.0% [ 4 ]
No, he's a crazy person! 0.125 12.5% [ 5 ]
No, I don't agree with the things he stands for 0.325 32.5% [ 13 ]
Total Votes:[ 40 ]
1 2 3 4 >
Hello ED,

I am a big supporter of Ron Paul. He is the candidate that is closest to my values, and even while I disagree with a few things that he stands for, I definitely believe that a Paul presidency would trump an Obama one.

I love that Dr. Paul has an Anti-War stance. I love that Dr. Paul wants to protect our civil liberties, and uphold them as they are written in the Constitution. I love that Dr. Paul has a real plan to fix our economy and lower our debt by a trillion dollars in the first year.

However,
I always get upset whenever I hear people calling him crazy, or foolish. Please, enlighten me on why people think so negatively of him, and refuse to give him a real chance at becoming our next president.

Questions for further discussion:
What do you think of Ron Paul?
Why do the other Republicans so strongly favor Pro-War stances?
Are there any other candidates you prefer to Dr. Paul, and why?
Complex Systems's avatar

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While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.
Complex Systems
While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.

I didn't read all of that, but I skimmed it. (Sorry, it got quite long!)
I am wondering who you plan on voting for instead of him? Will you vote Obama, another Republican nominee, or someone else entirely?
Complex Systems's avatar

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Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.

I didn't read all of that, but I skimmed it. (Sorry, it got quite long!)
I am wondering who you plan on voting for instead of him? Will you vote Obama, another Republican nominee, or someone else entirely?


I tend not to vote these days. I believe that the way I can best influence politics is through being involved in public policy, and I'm currently employed at a think tank while I try to get into a graduate program in economics/ That way I can continue to participate in academic dialogue about what helps make society prosperous for everyone. Largely thanks to this article here.

Voting to me is a waste of my time, I'm not going to be happy with the outcome, and for me my vote is relatively insignificant. There is better uses of my time to advance the political causes I care about.

Edit: If you're going to say you support a candidate, and not read about the counterposing argument, then I'd say you're not particularly earnest in your support.
Complex Systems
Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.

I didn't read all of that, but I skimmed it. (Sorry, it got quite long!)
I am wondering who you plan on voting for instead of him? Will you vote Obama, another Republican nominee, or someone else entirely?


I tend not to vote these days. I believe that the way I can best influence politics is through being involved in public policy, and I'm currently employed at a think tank while I try to get into a graduate program in economics/ That way I can continue to participate in academic dialogue about what helps make society prosperous for everyone. Largely thanks to this article here.

Voting to me is a waste of my time, I'm not going to be happy with the outcome, and for me my vote is relatively insignificant. There is better uses of my time to advance the political causes I care about.

Edit: If you're going to say you support a candidate, and not read about the counterposing argument, then I'd say you're not particularly earnest in your support.

Don't you think your vote could be worth it if you wrote-in or checked off whomever you support most? It may be one vote, and it may seem insignificant, but don't you think that when in the final results someone gets third or fourth place, someone else may actually go out and look into what that person stands for? It may not count for this election, but in the future it could spark interest in your candidate, if we ever are able to reach a landscape where more than two parties receive all of the publicity.
Complex Systems's avatar

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Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.

I didn't read all of that, but I skimmed it. (Sorry, it got quite long!)
I am wondering who you plan on voting for instead of him? Will you vote Obama, another Republican nominee, or someone else entirely?


I tend not to vote these days. I believe that the way I can best influence politics is through being involved in public policy, and I'm currently employed at a think tank while I try to get into a graduate program in economics/ That way I can continue to participate in academic dialogue about what helps make society prosperous for everyone. Largely thanks to this article here.

Voting to me is a waste of my time, I'm not going to be happy with the outcome, and for me my vote is relatively insignificant. There is better uses of my time to advance the political causes I care about.

Edit: If you're going to say you support a candidate, and not read about the counterposing argument, then I'd say you're not particularly earnest in your support.

Don't you think your vote could be worth it if you wrote-in or checked off whomever you support most? It may be one vote, and it may seem insignificant, but don't you think that when in the final results someone gets third or fourth place, someone else may actually go out and look into what that person stands for? It may not count for this election, but in the future it could spark interest in your candidate, if we ever are able to reach a landscape where more than two parties receive all of the publicity.


No. Firstly, because I don't support any of them. Secondly, because it doesn't matter mathematically, and the time I spent voting could have been spent towards more productive means to advance the political causes I care about (see: previous post).

And if you're interested in why PM me. Most people in ED-P I think are tired of my mathematics on why voting is useless, and I'll spare the usual eye sore.
Complex Systems
Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
Doctor Liberty
Complex Systems
While I consider myself a libertarian, generally for the idea of liberty outline in classical liberalism (see my signature, or ) - I largely just think he'll run the country in the ground.

I didn't read all of that, but I skimmed it. (Sorry, it got quite long!)
I am wondering who you plan on voting for instead of him? Will you vote Obama, another Republican nominee, or someone else entirely?


I tend not to vote these days. I believe that the way I can best influence politics is through being involved in public policy, and I'm currently employed at a think tank while I try to get into a graduate program in economics/ That way I can continue to participate in academic dialogue about what helps make society prosperous for everyone. Largely thanks to this article here.

Voting to me is a waste of my time, I'm not going to be happy with the outcome, and for me my vote is relatively insignificant. There is better uses of my time to advance the political causes I care about.

Edit: If you're going to say you support a candidate, and not read about the counterposing argument, then I'd say you're not particularly earnest in your support.

Don't you think your vote could be worth it if you wrote-in or checked off whomever you support most? It may be one vote, and it may seem insignificant, but don't you think that when in the final results someone gets third or fourth place, someone else may actually go out and look into what that person stands for? It may not count for this election, but in the future it could spark interest in your candidate, if we ever are able to reach a landscape where more than two parties receive all of the publicity.


No. Firstly, because I don't support any of them. Secondly, because it doesn't matter mathematically, and the time I spent voting could have been spent towards more productive means to advance the political causes I care about (see: previous post).

And if you're interested in why PM me. Most people in ED-P I think are tired of my mathematics on why voting is useless, and I'll spare the usual eye sore.

I took the time to go back and read it. You do have some great points in there about social policy. Equal rights for all people is something that I believe in, whether they are gay, female, etc. One thing I do disagree with is your stance on immigration.

I think that we should make it a little easier for people to become citizens. I don't know all that much about our current system, but from the numbers of illegal immigrants I have seen in my area, it seems as though it could use some reform. At the same time, I don't think that we should be lax in the way we police those from other countries that are here illegally. If they do wish to become legalized citizens, more power to them, but if they come here, and are collecting welfare somehow, or working a job for a company that wants to get away with only paying them half as much money as they should be earning, because they know that an illegal immigrant will never go and tell someone, then I believe there are serious problems with our system, and those problems will only hurt the American economy even further.

Speaking of the economy, I'd like to say that I don't know all too much about the gold standard. I have yet to read Ron's book on it, or any other ones for that matter. Are there any websites or books that you could recommend to me that would go into detail with that, and possible Austrian economics, which I know he supports. (I also attend a college in MN, and one of our economics professors, who is also in an office for our district, supports Austrian economics, and endorsed Paul for his support of an Austrian economic system.)

I think Paul's views on what "Civil Liberties" are could definitely use some reform to fit gays and women into them. I, personally, don't believe in abortion, but when it comes to an issue like that, I don't think that someone like me should even have a say in what a woman does with her body. When it comes to the gays, I know that Paul voted to repeal DADT, but I would like to see more support from him in other areas where gay people are thrown in the dust (MARRAIGE).

Even through all of this though, I still strongly support his anti-war stance, and it takes the cake for me. His foreign policy is something that I think the entire world should take up, and it makes me sad when I see things such as him being booed by a room full of Republicans (and probably Christians) for not promoting war. I also have other reasons for supporting him, but this is the big one for me.
Heimdalr's avatar

Mega Noob

I won't speculate in him having personality disorders and the like, though I can say he represents quite a massive aggregate of angst and crazy in an official sense.
Doctor Liberty

Speaking of the economy, I'd like to say that I don't know all too much about the gold standard. I have yet to read Ron's book on it, or any other ones for that matter. Are there any websites or books that you could recommend to me that would go into detail with that, and possible Austrian economics, which I know he supports. (I also attend a college in MN, and one of our economics professors, who is also in an office for our district, supports Austrian economics, and endorsed Paul for his support of an Austrian economic system.)

Austrian Economics works best from the perspectives of those reasonably economically literate who can then analyse it for what it is, that is largely a theoretical fundamentalist approach. And by fundamentalist I don't mean extremist I mean fundamental. In my experience it has often tried to provide an approach to Economics that is based in fundamentals and axioms, and while useful, it isn't something you want to base your whole policy on.

For example, Hayek's analysis of Labour and Capital markets and their role in the production of the business cycle and the axiom that they are not homogeneous presents a real argument for the way with deal with policy implications on a microeconomic level.

On the other-hand support for the Gold standard and the removal of the Fractional-Reserve system, as supported by some, as a mean of fundamentalist the financial system back many decades instead ignores the complexities of the system and why we need them to deal with investment on the level of Economies the size we have these days.

My recommendations of books, if you want to go to the source read the works of Hayek and Mises.
GunsmithKitten's avatar

Aged Lunatic

Doctor Liberty
Hello ED,

I love that Dr. Paul wants to protect our civil liberties, and uphold them as they are written in the Constitution.


He loves them so much that he wants the states to be able to compeltely ignore the Bill of Rights in matters of religion and sexuality!

stare

Quote:
I always get upset whenever I hear people calling him crazy, or foolish. Please, enlighten me on why people think so negatively of him, and refuse to give him a real chance at becoming our next president.


Because I like the Bill of Rights, sir. Because I think the states should not be allowed to buck it on matters of sexuality or religion. If Paul enabled my state to do so, I have no doubts in my head that sodomy laws would be the law of the land and my very freedom would be at stake.

That's why I oppose Paul.
Complex Systems's avatar

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Doctor Liberty

I took the time to go back and read it. You do have some great points in there about social policy. Equal rights for all people is something that I believe in, whether they are gay, female, etc. One thing I do disagree with is your stance on immigration.

I think that we should make it a little easier for people to become citizens. I don't know all that much about our current system, but from the numbers of illegal immigrants I have seen in my area, it seems as though it could use some reform. At the same time, I don't think that we should be lax in the way we police those from other countries that are here illegally. If they do wish to become legalized citizens, more power to them, but if they come here, and are collecting welfare somehow, or working a job for a company that wants to get away with only paying them half as much money as they should be earning, because they know that an illegal immigrant will never go and tell someone, then I believe there are serious problems with our system, and those problems will only hurt the American economy even further.

Speaking of the economy, I'd like to say that I don't know all too much about the gold standard. I have yet to read Ron's book on it, or any other ones for that matter. Are there any websites or books that you could recommend to me that would go into detail with that, and possible Austrian economics, which I know he supports. (I also attend a college in MN, and one of our economics professors, who is also in an office for our district, supports Austrian economics, and endorsed Paul for his support of an Austrian economic system.)

I think Paul's views on what "Civil Liberties" are could definitely use some reform to fit gays and women into them. I, personally, don't believe in abortion, but when it comes to an issue like that, I don't think that someone like me should even have a say in what a woman does with her body. When it comes to the gays, I know that Paul voted to repeal DADT, but I would like to see more support from him in other areas where gay people are thrown in the dust (MARRAIGE).

Even through all of this though, I still strongly support his anti-war stance, and it takes the cake for me. His foreign policy is something that I think the entire world should take up, and it makes me sad when I see things such as him being booed by a room full of Republicans (and probably Christians) for not promoting war. I also have other reasons for supporting him, but this is the big one for me.


Paul's stance on immigration is just wrong. He makes claims that the welfare state is what's driving illegal immigrants, and all these other untenable positions that the literature just doesn't agree with him on. Immigrants don't come here for free emergency room care and k-12 education, topics he's written bills striking "illegal" access to, to kick immigrants out of the country. They come here for jobs and to work. In the end all his position does is make it harder for people to assimilate into the country, one of the major problems with any immigrant population, and further sideline minority groups. The best way forward for immigration is amnesty, a mass liberalization of the naturalization standards, and a massive extension of the guest worker program.

I'm going to defer you to N3bu's post on austrian economics. I work at a libertarian think tank, and have been involved in the movement for several years now. I deal with gold standard people enough, as well as Austrian economics people, and I ultimately disagree with them. I don't believe their axioms lead to the outcomes they think it does. I'd check out Hayek's Contra Keynes and Cambridge, which is the compiled correspondence and criticism between Hayek and Keynes over the years.

I'm not going to support a bad apple because of one decent bite, especially if I think it's poisoned.
There's so much wrong with Ron Pual I don't even know where to begin.

Leaving individual's rights up to the states is something I thought we got over in the Civil war.
1) The vast majority of RPs 'good ideas' would never pass Congress, which means we really shouldn't vote based on them;
2) The removal of the fed would destroy our economy, but see #1
3) Removing the 14th, which is fairly possible due to an anchor baby campaign, would destroy almost all civil rights we have
4) Paul is for Federal Civil rights, but his positions have no bearing on if Ohio wants to become a theocracy. In fact, his very position (#3) ALLOWS for this, when it is currently banned
5) Isolationism doesn't work. We have tried several times, and it fails miserably. Remember, Bush ran as an isolationist
6) What logic is behind the gold standard? Sure, gold has been used for eons, but it has no true intrinsic value (NO IT DOESN'T: A chicken does, a goat does, a spear does. SOmething which exists only for prettyness does not have value). Further, with almost everything we own having gold in it, a switch would actually force inflation
rizuhbull
There's so much wrong with Ron Pual I don't even know where to begin.

Leaving individual's rights up to the states is something I thought we got over in the Civil war.


Really, because SCOTUS would strongly disagree, as would the Constitution

1) States are still individual nations which retain the right to rebel or peacefully leave (SCOTUS backs me up on one, the other is actually spelled in the constitution);
2) Unless you want to ignore gay marriage, the fact is that state's rights are a fundamental part of every campaign;
3) likewise, everything that hasn't been encorporated via the 14th is still a state-by-state bases, which is a damn lot of stuff;
4) Tell California, who allows medical marijuana, Michigan who does the same, Oregon which allows assisted suicide, and Mass. which now allows gay marriage that state rights no longer exist.

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