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Ishikawa Uchida
A small number of analysts have argued that the United States, Russia, and China are conducting a new Cold War framework inside the Middle East. With Russia's and China's economies growing, there is amble opportunity for them to flex power projection in Iran, Syria, and other areas of the Middle East. I'm not so sure that this is the case, as the United States and other countries are overcome with growing dissatisfaction of the conflict in Syria; and that calls for intervention are building up as the days go by. The requests for intervention are pushing Russia, and China further away from controlling the situation in their interests, and into the grasp of Western Powers.

China and Russia are growing in an unstable manner. Much like the US did in 2008 and 1929, The 2 former Soviets are not going to be celebrating for long. Either consumers lose interest in products (In China's case, housing) and they head into a recession or they lose the ability to afford the product and then they get into a depression. Either way, they are in an economic bubble. It'll either lose air slowly or burst in catastrophe.
If it was just Iran vs Israel, then Israel would win hands down. If the other Arab countries join, it's probably still Israel. The only way I can see an Israeli defeat is if Russia goes against them. A few things though.

1. Russia does not support Iran. They never really did support them and that's why Iran has a predominantly F-14 fleet instead of a Mig fleet, all of which came from former satellite states.

2. Israel is allied with the US and Europe. Not only that, but Israel has nukes.
Wendigo's avatar

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Air power. Tangled alliances. Blockades. Worldwide but transitory disruptions in trade. Ultimately unsatisfactory conclusion for all involved. Lather. Rinse...
God Emperor Akhenaton
If it was just Iran vs Israel, then Israel would win hands down. If the other Arab countries join, it's probably still Israel. The only way I can see an Israeli defeat is if Russia goes against them. A few things though.

1. Russia does not support Iran. They never really did support them and that's why Iran has a predominantly F-14 fleet instead of a Mig fleet, all of which came from former satellite states.

2. Israel is allied with the US and Europe. Not only that, but Israel has nukes.

Your being over confidant. No doubt they would probably win, but not easily.

Their current Air Superiority of 80 F15s and 300 F16s against 44 F14s & 140 F5/F4s is an incredibly strong advantage, but that doesn't mean the Iranian air force is just throwing trash at them. It still entirely possible for them to take a lot of losses trying to establish air dominances.

In contrast to this however, Iran is a much bigger country. It has 10 times it's population and 4 times it's economic size. The Iranian Army is also 4 times IDF's size.

The use of Nukes is largely discounted because it's such a game changer it's predicted their usage wouldn't be in anyway positive for Israel. It would create difficulties with both Turkey and Egypt, the former strictly bigger than Iran, the latter only by population. It would further stress tensions with Russia and China, and then their (Russia and China) relations with the US, which in the long run would only pressure the withdrawal of US support from Israel.

Israel can and would beat Iran, but it would only be a one-sided s**t stomping if they were lucky like in the 6 day war.

There's also Saudi's influence to consider.
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I say we just let all of these assholes kill each other, and then when they're gone, we go over and take all the oil.

But since the U.S. loves to suck Israel's d**k so much, we'll probably get dragged into this whole thing. *sigh*

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Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Proxy wars and/or Entente Cordiales; one would suspect.


...hey bad idea?

what do you mean by entente cordiales? i know what proxy wars are but...what that other thing? confused
The Entende Cordiale was the Alliance of the UK, France and Russia pre-WW1. With Germany, Italy and Austria forming the opposing side (you know, that whole big alliances therefore no war hope (oh how silly))...I'm detracting; basically, it's a French term.
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a friendly understanding between political powers: less formal than an alliance
Valkyrja of Heaven's avatar

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A Really Bad Idea
Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Proxy wars and/or Entente Cordiales; one would suspect.


...hey bad idea?

what do you mean by entente cordiales? i know what proxy wars are but...what that other thing? confused
The Entende Cordiale was the Alliance of the UK, France and Russia pre-WW1. With Germany, Italy and Austria forming the opposing side (you know, that whole big alliances therefore no war hope (oh how silly))...I'm detracting; basically, it's a French term.
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a friendly understanding between political powers: less formal than an alliance

....so kind of like an agreement or an unspoken pact?
Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Proxy wars and/or Entente Cordiales; one would suspect.


...hey bad idea?

what do you mean by entente cordiales? i know what proxy wars are but...what that other thing? confused
The Entende Cordiale was the Alliance of the UK, France and Russia pre-WW1. With Germany, Italy and Austria forming the opposing side (you know, that whole big alliances therefore no war hope (oh how silly))...I'm detracting; basically, it's a French term.
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a friendly understanding between political powers: less formal than an alliance

....so kind of like an agreement or an unspoken pact?
Pretty much. Entente Cordiale just works as a better term in this case with the historical context to it.
Valkyrja of Heaven's avatar

Original Gaian

A Really Bad Idea
Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Valkyrie Of Heaven
A Really Bad Idea
Proxy wars and/or Entente Cordiales; one would suspect.


...hey bad idea?

what do you mean by entente cordiales? i know what proxy wars are but...what that other thing? confused
The Entende Cordiale was the Alliance of the UK, France and Russia pre-WW1. With Germany, Italy and Austria forming the opposing side (you know, that whole big alliances therefore no war hope (oh how silly))...I'm detracting; basically, it's a French term.
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a friendly understanding between political powers: less formal than an alliance

....so kind of like an agreement or an unspoken pact?
Pretty much. Entente Cordiale just works as a better term in this case with the historical context to it.


aaahhh okay. i think i get it. ...for the most part. i'll do some research into it and ask my sargent if he can explain it to me tomorrow at Future solider training.
Valkyrie Of Heaven
aaahhh okay. i think i get it. ...for the most part. i'll do some research into it and ask my sargent if he can explain it to me tomorrow at Future solider training.
Fair enough. Hope a more thorough explanation is reached.
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Original Gaian

A Really Bad Idea
Valkyrie Of Heaven
aaahhh okay. i think i get it. ...for the most part. i'll do some research into it and ask my sargent if he can explain it to me tomorrow at Future solider training.
Fair enough. Hope a more thorough explanation is reached.


thanks for explaining it as far as you did. i had no idea of what you were talking about when you posted it. now i do. but i'm going to seek and even further explaintion just so i know what it's context can be and how to use the term.
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Darkphantom
shoeless joe
Darkphantom
To be fair most of the antagonism is begin performed by the USA and Israel. most of the actions that have been taken by iran are.

Economically threatening the USA because the USA threatened iran with US sanctions.
involving themselves with terrorist bombings around the world because the USA or Israel blew up bombs in their country killing scientists and civilian bystanders.

Both of which aren't outrageous reactions.


You forgot the part about the nuclear weapons program.
Again Israel has a pretty well developed nuclear program and they have been flaunting it as a threat against iran.
Thats no reason not to stop Iran building their own weapons.


Keeping city-destroying, nuclear fallout causing weapons out of the hands of religious fanatics is a better reason though.
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Silvia Crow
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Darkphantom
shoeless joe
Darkphantom
To be fair most of the antagonism is begin performed by the USA and Israel. most of the actions that have been taken by iran are.

Economically threatening the USA because the USA threatened iran with US sanctions.
involving themselves with terrorist bombings around the world because the USA or Israel blew up bombs in their country killing scientists and civilian bystanders.

Both of which aren't outrageous reactions.


You forgot the part about the nuclear weapons program.
Again Israel has a pretty well developed nuclear program and they have been flaunting it as a threat against iran.
Thats no reason not to stop Iran building their own weapons.


Keeping city-destroying, nuclear fallout causing weapons out of the hands of religious fanatics is a better reason though.
I think you misread me. To be fair, my sentence was rather crappy.
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N3bu

The use of Nukes is largely discounted because it's such a game changer it's predicted their usage wouldn't be in anyway positive for Israel.
Well, here's the thing. Everybody but Israel is currently saying this about a war with Iran.
Wendigo
N3bu

The use of Nukes is largely discounted because it's such a game changer it's predicted their usage wouldn't be in anyway positive for Israel.
Well, here's the thing. Everybody but Israel is currently saying this about a war with Iran.
Because Israel can then "not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East".

God Emperor Akhenaton
2. Israel is allied with the US and Europe. Not only that, but Israel has nukes.
I wouldn't count on the latter of those so heavily.
If only because European nations have this tendancy to be really ineffective by insisting on co-operation. And;
N3bu
There's also Saudi's influence to consider.
N3bu, intentional or no, throws up the bugbear that Saudi Arabia has been somewhat close with western Europe over the years.

Wendigo
N3bu

The use of Nukes is largely discounted because it's such a game changer it's predicted their usage wouldn't be in anyway positive for Israel.
Well, here's the thing. Everybody but Israel is currently saying this about a war with Iran.
Well; having a nuclear deterrent of their own would probably be the reas- Wait; we're not meant to say that. Policy of ambiguity and all that. razz

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