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[ Poll ] 'Getting shot down in a fighter plane isn't a qualification'

Is riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down a qualification to be president?

Yes. 0.2 20.0% [ 18 ]
No. 0.8 80.0% [ 72 ]
Total Votes: 90
Tags: barack  obama  mccain  clark  election 
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Post: 41409713_1 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:23 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:23 pm
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/30/clark.mccain/index.html
Quote:
"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in the armed forces as a prisoner of war. And he has traveled all over the world. But he hasn't held executive responsibility," said Clark, a former NATO commander who campaigned for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004.

"He hasn't been there and ordered the bombs to fall. He hasn't seen what it's like when diplomats come in and say, 'I don't know whether we're going to be able to get this point through or not,' " Clark said.

Schieffer noted that Obama did not have any of those experiences either nor has he "ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down."

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," Clark said.

Obama rejected Clark's comments, but I don't see Clark backing down any time soon. Who's right here, if anyone? I reckon the Republicans, through their shameless use of the Swift Boat ads in 2004, inadvertently inoculated American voters against being outraged by the questioning of a candidate's military service in Vietnam.
 
     

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Post: 41409713_2 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:33 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:33 pm
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I'm pretty sure Clark is right. That said, I think it was both classy and clever of Obama to turn his back on Clark, because Clark has the awkward mark on his record of having almost caused an international incident with the Russian military, and because it is considered impolite in today's climate to question someone's military service, unless you (the questioner, that is) are a Republican.

IOKIYAR is alive and well. But neither Clark nor Obama are Republicans, so it doesn't apply to them.

But if Clark can work as the Democratic party's bulldog, making politically incorrect but accurate statements about McCain, hopefully chiseling away at it a bit while Obama et al. issue the occasional sharply-worded remark about how it's politically incorrect to question people's military service (unless you, the questioner that is, are a Republican), it might turn out pretty well.
     
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Post: 41409713_3 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 pm
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do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot
 
     

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Post: 41409713_4 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:37 pm
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I really don't think it does. Being an active soldier is alot different from leading something as big as a country.

We all respect McCains, choices during a PoW...but McCain is playing almost a similer experience political card as Hillary did.

I rather look at McCains past political experience....which he does have.

.....Sence McCain and Obama have political experience I think it's fair to say they both are qualified.....but McCains' military experience is a whole different level.
     
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Post: 41409713_5 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 pm
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"LightWarrior"
I really don't think it does. Being an active soldier is alot different from leading something as big as a country.

We all respect McCains, choices during a PoW...but McCain is playing almost a similer experience political card as Hillary did.

I rather look at McCains past political experience....which he does have.

.....Sence McCain and Obama have political experience I think it's fair to say they both are qualified.....but McCains' military experience is a whole different level.


the thing is, serving in the army is experience. It is being above and below people, more experience than a politician has in the average legislature role
 
     

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Post: 41409713_6 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:40 pm
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"agrab0ekim"
do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot

Are you sure that you're talking about J. S. McCain III, or his father?

Edit: okay, Wikipedia says this:

Quote:
Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He turned around an undistinguished unit and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.

So he whipped a washed-up training squadron into useable shape. That's not the same as "commanding the largest squadron in the Navy". And he declined a promotion to Rear Admiral shortly before retiring from military service.
     
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Post: 41409713_7 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:42 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:42 pm
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Well, Clark is right that being shot down is not a qualification for being president, nor is being a POW, nor is simply having Military service. It's what you did during that time, during which, McCain showed leadership and courage and resilience inside the prison camp. He may not have been one of the generals mapping out what was going to happen, when and how, but having worked with the people, having watched, studied, and putting those plans into action gave him some experience in that regard. Not the same as the responsibilities and in depth planning of a general or admeral, but then again, it's certainly not nothing.

Anyway, the good news is, the foolish comments made by Clark and Obama's complete rejection of them probably means Clark is off the VP list.
 
     

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Post: 41409713_8 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:43 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:43 pm
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He was insensitive in how he said it... but he has a point, regardless.
     
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Post: 41409713_9 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:44 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:44 pm
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"Shaviv"
"agrab0ekim"
do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot

Are you sure that you're talking about J. S. McCain III, or his father?


yes, I am sure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#Return_to_United_States
 
     

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Post: 41409713_10 created on Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:50 pmPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:50 pm
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"Shaviv"
"agrab0ekim"
do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot

Are you sure that you're talking about J. S. McCain III, or his father?

Edit: okay, Wikipedia says this:

Quote:
Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He turned around an undistinguished unit and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.

So he whipped a washed-up training squadron into useable shape. That's not the same as "commanding the largest squadron in the Navy". And he declined a promotion to Rear Admiral shortly before retiring from military service.
No, that would be John Sidney McCain. He just didn't command it during war time. He commanded VA-174 at Cecil Field, Florida. It was more of a governing job then anything else, one that he excelled at, but a wartime command it was not.

EDIT: And yes, when the squadron is the largest aviation squadron in the Navy, and he commanded it, it is exactly the same thing as saying "commanding the largest aviation squadron in the Navy".
     

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Post: 41409713_11 created on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 amPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 am
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"agrab0ekim"
"Shaviv"
"agrab0ekim"
do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot

Are you sure that you're talking about J. S. McCain III, or his father?


yes, I am sure
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#Return_to_United_States


largest aviation squadron in the U.S. Navy

Responsible for training replacement pilots and maintenance personnel with the clear emphasis on maintenance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_Squadron_174_(U.S._Navy)

A glorious command post this was not. But that's what you get when you get further and further away from big wars with fewer and fewer people with distinguished records.

I don't plan on mocking John McCain for his unremarkable record and instead will relish at the many people who mocked Kerry's wartime record do an about face and call foul when people do it to McCain. I'm more concerned about what he's doing now rather than what he was subjected to after being shot down.
 
     
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Post: 41409713_12 created on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:16 amPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:16 am
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Can you say "swift boating"?
Hurts, doesn't it?
     
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Post: 41409713_13 created on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:18 amPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:18 am
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Clark has a point.
However, the Republicans are having the Swift Boat thing come back to haunt them. Guess it's better now then when the General actually kicks off in September.

As the Zen Master says, "We'll see."
 
     

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Post: 41409713_14 created on Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:43 amPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:43 am
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"Mokie7"
Can you say "swift boating"?
Hurts, doesn't it?


It definitely would if McCain had made a point of mentioning his service record every time it became even tangentially related to the conversation.

But so far the only people making a big deal of his war record have been people attacking it so I don't think it'll be really effective.
     
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Post: 41409713_15 created on Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:05 amPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:05 am
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"Undakai"
"Shaviv"
"agrab0ekim"
do remember that McCain followed this up byu commanding the largest squadron in the navy... not something Clark wants to bring up

That said, Clark is an idiot

Are you sure that you're talking about J. S. McCain III, or his father?

Edit: okay, Wikipedia says this:

Quote:
Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated, and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He turned around an undistinguished unit and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.

So he whipped a washed-up training squadron into useable shape. That's not the same as "commanding the largest squadron in the Navy". And he declined a promotion to Rear Admiral shortly before retiring from military service.
No, that would be John Sidney McCain. He just didn't command it during war time. He commanded VA-174 at Cecil Field, Florida. It was more of a governing job then anything else, one that he excelled at, but a wartime command it was not.

EDIT: And yes, when the squadron is the largest aviation squadron in the Navy, and he commanded it, it is exactly the same thing as saying "commanding the largest aviation squadron in the Navy".

Oooh, schooled. I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. Where do you find this stuff? I just know which candidate I'm voting for and why, I don't really care about personal histories.
 
     
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