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Kasumi of Vientown
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Yeah, not reading all that. Sorry.

I understand there is some dispute over the voices. I assume everything you brought up will come out in the trial if it's relevant- and I suspect much of it is.

My bigger point, and I know this seems like backpedaling, but even if Zimmerman was calling for help... he was following someone around in the middle of the night very sketchily. I believe he actually chased him at one point. If Martin attacked him, I think I might call that self defense- especially based on the stand your ground law.


Yeah, the media s still making that mistake, so I don't blame you for it. You see, the liberal media still says that Zimmerman ignored the dispatchers 'orders' and kept chasing Trayvon

This is a map of where this all occurred:

Click.

Point C is where George Zimmerman was parked. When he got out to maintain line-of-sight with Trayvon, he headed towards Point E, passing through a dark area and losing sight of Trayvon. Apparently Trayvon was heading down the dark back area towards point D while Zimmerman stopped around Point E and spent 90 seconds finishing up his phone call with the dispatcher. Emphasis on Zimmerman stopped!

After Zimmerman hung up, the facts get sketchy. Zimmerman claims he was heading back to his SUV, back through that darker area, and Trayvon attacked him, and in the struggle or something they somehow ended up getting the short distance to point F, which is where Trayvon died, which was right outside the witness John's house (Pont G).

We can't know everything that happened between Zimmerman hanging up and when John first spotted them, but we do know where Trayvon was when he got away from Zimmerman, and he was heading home, and we know he had a 90 second head start at least, so why didn't Trayyvon Martin make it home (at point D) that small distance in that 90 seconds?

The most probable explanation for all these facts based on where Trayvon was shot in relation to where Zimmerman was parked and where he finished his 911 call, is that Trayvon was heading home when his girlfriend called, and he talked to her, and he built up the nerve to go back and confront George Zimmerman.

Teenage boys will do incredibly stupid things if they think that they can impress a girl. That's human nature, at least for teenage boys, regardless of race..


The prosecutor has her work cut out for her if she truly believes Zimmerman is guilty of anything, the facts just aren't there and a lot of what George Zimmerman and the eye-witness said seems very credible.

If, as the evidence suggests, Zimmerman did stop following Trayvon, and if Trayvon truly came back and assaulted Zimmerman, than it was justifiable homicide/self-defense. By the time John came out and saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help, well, what would you do?

Getting out of the car was foolish to begin with, but not illegal, and prior to the fatal incident there is a 90 second timeframe where Zimmerman stopped to talk to the dispatcher, so the only reason Trayvon wouldn't have made it home is because he chose not to, because he came back to confront Zimmerman, just like Zimmerman claimed.

People have claimed that Zimmerman walked or snuck after Trayvon during that 90 seconds, but there is no proof of that theory, and honestly if he had done as the whack jobs claimed the fight would have broken out much closer to Point D, and Trayvon would not have died in the place that he did.

The only situation that would explain why they were in the spot that they were at when Trayvon was shot is if Zimmerman did stop where he claimed and Trayvon came back, just like Zimmerman claimed.
lolwut

It is acceptable to ask questions, but it is unacceptable to atempt to fill in the blanks with no evidence to do so. Upon which direct evidence did you base your conclusion that that is the most probable explanation?

And how do you figure that "choose to go home or fight" are the only possibilities? Furthermore, in the threads in the main ED forum members have mentioned that he possibly did not want Zimmerman to know where his family lives, which is reasonable.
Kasumi of Vientown
Ammo Amy
Kasumi of Vientown
... You see, the liberal media still says...


Yeah, pretty much sums it your point of view in a nutshell.


The above clip depicts the type of crap the liberal media has been pulling, but more importantly watch the next video. Where is the media in regard to the next video? Everyone says that if Zimmerman was black he would have been arrested right away, but as you can see from the below clip that is a lie.



A mentally handicapped white/Hispanic man was murdered by a black man at a Taco Bell restaurant. Police have refused to arrest the killer because he claimed that the shooting was self-defense. However, no weapons were found on the victim.

Police said a 22-year-old man and a female passenger had ordered food in the drive-thru lane of a Taco Bell restaurant and as they were pulling up to the window, a man walking his dog stepped around a blind corner into the lane. The driver quickly stopped and exchanged words with the man, later identified as Daniel Adkins. They got into an altercation and the driver shot Adkins one time, according to Phoenix police Sgt. Tommy Thompson. Adkins was pronounced dead at the scene.

The driver remained at the scene. He and his passenger said Adkins had a bat or some other type of weapon that he swung at them. The driver told police he felt threatened. Detectives were unable to locate a bat or similar item. However, a witness told investigators that Adkins did swing his fist in the direction of the driver several times.

There are inconsistencies in this black mans story, but there are none in Zimmerman's, and yet because he claimed self-defense he hasn't been arrested. It is also unclear whether or not the shooter had a permit to carry a concealed weapon in the phoenix case since it's not getting much coverage.


Ah, Fox News. That says a lot.

Quote:

Fox News viewers suffer when it comes to knowing about current events, a…Fox News viewers less informed than those who don’t watch news at all.

MEENA HARTENSTEIN

Tuesday, November 22, 2011
If Fox News viewers want to be informed about current events, they might as well turn off the TV.

A poll released by Fairleigh Dickinson University on Monday found that people who get their news from Fox News know significantly less about news both in the U.S. and the world than people who watch no news at all.


I wasn't sure if you were a Fox News viewer until you started providing your sources. Do us all a favor and please turn off your TV. You'll be better educated for it.

Your second YouTube clip has nothing at all to do with Zimmerman. That's just a diversion from the issue at hand.
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As for your obnoxious post about voice recognition software, do you have any information critiquing the program's actual method of analysis? Not from a speculative point of view, but from a purely analytical perspective that estimates an error rate? Because "he made it" does not demonstrate that the system is faulty.

How could Owen have been using the same technology in that case when the web site says the software was only released on March 7th, 2012.

I will respond to that directly. It is plausible that he, as a developer or whatever, had access to and used it long before it was released for sale to the public.
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A lot of people are thinking Trayvon's like some sort of saint or something, so Zimmerman must be guilty and who cares about the evidence?
You can murder people who aren't saints and still be a murderer, y'know.
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razorsarz
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So you are ok with sending a guy to jail for life on lies?

You've not established they were lies. And you won't, not on your own anyway.

So you must not know much about this then. NBC has come out and said the 911 calls were edited CNN has said that the Video was as well. The kids dad has said that is not my son calling out for help and one guy watched it all go down said the kid was on him and the guy was calling out for help not the kid. that's all you need and the case is done. HE is going to get off an FL is going to burn.
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Yeah, not reading all that. Sorry.

I understand there is some dispute over the voices. I assume everything you brought up will come out in the trial if it's relevant- and I suspect much of it is.

My bigger point, and I know this seems like backpedaling, but even if Zimmerman was calling for help... he was following someone around in the middle of the night very sketchily. I believe he actually chased him at one point. If Martin attacked him, I think I might call that self defense- especially based on the stand your ground law.


Yeah, the media s still making that mistake, so I don't blame you for it. You see, the liberal media still says that Zimmerman ignored the dispatchers 'orders' and kept chasing Trayvon

This is a map of where this all occurred:

User Image

Point C is where George Zimmerman was parked. When he got out to maintain line-of-sight with Trayvon, he headed towards Point E, passing through a dark area and losing sight of Trayvon. Apparently Trayvon was heading down the dark back area towards point D while Zimmerman stopped around Point E and spent 90 seconds finishing up his phone call with the dispatcher. Emphasis on Zimmerman stopped!

After Zimmerman hung up, the facts get sketchy. Zimmerman claims he was heading back to his SUV, back through that darker area, and Trayvon attacked him, and in the struggle or something they somehow ended up getting the short distance to point F, which is where Trayvon died, which was right outside the witness John's house (Pont G).

We can't know everything that happened between Zimmerman hanging up and when John first spotted them, but we do know where Trayvon was when he got away from Zimmerman, and he was heading home, and we know he had a 90 second head start at least, so why didn't Trayyvon Martin make it home (at point D) that small distance in that 90 seconds?

The most probable explanation for all these facts based on where Trayvon was shot in relation to where Zimmerman was parked and where he finished his 911 call, is that Trayvon was heading home when his girlfriend called, and he talked to her, and he built up the nerve to go back and confront George Zimmerman.

Teenage boys will do incredibly stupid things if they think that they can impress a girl. That's human nature, at least for teenage boys, regardless of race..


The prosecutor has her work cut out for her if she truly believes Zimmerman is guilty of anything, the facts just aren't there and a lot of what George Zimmerman and the eye-witness said seems very credible.

If, as the evidence suggests, Zimmerman did stop following Trayvon, and if Trayvon truly came back and assaulted Zimmerman, than it was justifiable homicide/self-defense. By the time John came out and saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman yelling for help, well, what would you do?

Getting out of the car was foolish to begin with, but not illegal, and prior to the fatal incident there is a 90 second timeframe where Zimmerman stopped to talk to the dispatcher, so the only reason Trayvon wouldn't have made it home is because he chose not to, because he came back to confront Zimmerman, just like Zimmerman claimed.

People have claimed that Zimmerman walked or snuck after Trayvon during that 90 seconds, but there is no proof of that theory, and honestly if he had done as the whack jobs claimed the fight would have broken out much closer to Point D, and Trayvon would not have died in the place that he did.

The only situation that would explain why they were in the spot that they were at when Trayvon was shot is if Zimmerman did stop where he claimed and Trayvon came back, just like Zimmerman claimed.
lolwut

It is acceptable to ask questions, but it is unacceptable to atempt to fill in the blanks with no evidence to do so. Upon which direct evidence did you base your conclusion that that is the most probable explanation?

And how do you figure that "choose to go home or fight" are the only possibilities?


George Zimmerman's 911 call indicates that Zimmerman stopped for a confirmed 90 seconds, so he wasn't following Trayvon. Trayvon apparent got to where he felt safe and called his girlfriend, probably from right outside the place he was staying. This guess is deduced based upon where George Zimmerman was when he stopped following Trayvon.

If Zimmerman stopped at point E and Trayvon stopped at or around point D, then the only way Trayvon could have been shot two minutes after Zimmerman hung up at point F is if Trayvon backtracked.

Sure, we cannot confirm why he backtracked, but considering an eye-witness saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmeran, beating on him, it seems logical that talking to his girlfriend might have emboldened Trayvon and he might have started the confrontation.

It's impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman meant to kill anyone for any reason. Despite media allegations, George Zimmerman is no racist. Anyway, I believe he's innocent, just like I believed the Duke Lacrosse team was innocent. I was right then and I think I'm right now.

This is another case where emotions are getting the better of people and they stop caring about all the evidence that doesn't neatly fit into how they believe things happened. Back when that Duke Lacrosse Case was happening, everyone was all fired up and passionate and so sure that those three boys were guilty, but I kept saying that there was something fishy, and as time past I became convinced they were innocent, and whenever I said what I believed people would get angry.

I got called a racist a few times then, too, but I wasn't a racist, and in the end it came out that I was right and the accuser had made the whole story up.


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George Zimmerman's 911 call indicates that Zimmerman stopped for a confirmed 90 seconds, so he wasn't following Trayvon. Trayvon apparent got to where he felt safe and called his girlfriend, probably from right outside the place he was staying. This guess is deduced based upon where George Zimmerman was when he stopped following Trayvon.

If Zimmerman stopped at point E and Trayvon stopped at or around point D, then the only way Trayvon could have been shot two minutes after Zimmerman hung up at point F is if Trayvon backtracked.

Sure, we cannot confirm why he backtracked, but considering an eye-witness saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmeran, beating on him, it seems logical that talking to his girlfriend might have emboldened Trayvon and he might have started the confrontation.

It's impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman meant to kill anyone for any reason. Despite media allegations, George Zimmerman is no racist. Anyway, I believe he's innocent, just like I believed the Duke Lacrosse team was innocent. I was right then and I think I'm right now.

This is another case where emotions are getting the better of people and they stop caring about all the evidence that doesn't neatly fit into how they believe things happened. Back when that Duke Lacrosse Case was happening, everyone was all fired up and passionate and so sure that those three boys were guilty, but I kept saying that there was something fishy, and as time past I became convinced they were innocent, and whenever I said what I believed people would get angry.

I got called a racist a few times then, too, but I wasn't a racist, and in the end it came out that I was right and the accuser had made the whole story up.


Cool story, bro. I am still waiting for the evidence that allowed you to conclude those things.

Hint: You keeo taking evidence out of its direct scope.
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As for your obnoxious post about voice recognition software, do you have any information critiquing the program's actual method of analysis? Not from a speculative point of view, but from a purely analytical perspective that estimates an error rate? Because "he made it" does not demonstrate that the system is faulty.

How could Owen have been using the same technology in that case when the web site says the software was only released on March 7th, 2012.

I will respond to that directly. It is plausible that he, as a developer or whatever, had access to and used it long before it was released for sale to the public.


Possibly that's true, but he's still using a program that he wrote and that he's selling for $5000 per license, that is a conflict of interest that the news failed to acknowledge.

That's less important then this part, though:

Quote:
Now, when I was in High School I happened to study biometrics and much of what was true then is still true now:

Here are the problems. Zimmerman was yelling for help, he was getting beaten up and he was panicked and scared. Those facts alone can make the voice be disguised and come back a false-negative. If you throw in physical blows to the face, belly, or groin that can really throw it off. Also a hit to the throat will almost guarantee a failure to match. The vocal cords are the most important part of the body for this software, so a hit to that spot will make ones voice much less recognizable by the software.

Also, the screams were background noise and there was a lot of interference, making one more obstacle when they tried to isolate just the screams. There may have been leftover interferance not audible to the human ear and that can throw the results off a bit too. In short, all those things made me feel certain that if they used the software it wouldn't match even before the release of these results. By the way, a 48% match is very high, it's not scientifically conclusive, but if you take two random people off the street and compare there voices with voice recpgnition software, more often you'd be less then a 20% match, so really under the circumstances a 48% match is quite impressive. I take that 48% match, combined with all the reasons cited above, to be proof that there is a high probability that it is Zimmermans voice, and that is corroborated by John's testimony.

Oh yeah, I forgot one more thing. Cell phones compress the voice signal so much that much information is lost. Meaning comparing Zimmermans voice when he was on a cell phone can be yet one more factor that can throw off the results of a a voice analysis.
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As for your obnoxious post about voice recognition software, do you have any information critiquing the program's actual method of analysis? Not from a speculative point of view, but from a purely analytical perspective that estimates an error rate? Because "he made it" does not demonstrate that the system is faulty.

How could Owen have been using the same technology in that case when the web site says the software was only released on March 7th, 2012.

I will respond to that directly. It is plausible that he, as a developer or whatever, had access to and used it long before it was released for sale to the public.


Possibly that's true, but he's still using a program that he wrote and that he's selling for $5000 per license, that is a conflict of interest that the news failed to acknowledge.

That's less important then this part, though:

Quote:
Now, when I was in High School I happened to study biometrics and much of what was true then is still true now:

Here are the problems. Zimmerman was yelling for help, he was getting beaten up and he was panicked and scared. Those facts alone can make the voice be disguised and come back a false-negative. If you throw in physical blows to the face, belly, or groin that can really throw it off. Also a hit to the throat will almost guarantee a failure to match. The vocal cords are the most important part of the body for this software, so a hit to that spot will make ones voice much less recognizable by the software.

Also, the screams were background noise and there was a lot of interference, making one more obstacle when they tried to isolate just the screams. There may have been leftover interferance not audible to the human ear and that can throw the results off a bit too. In short, all those things made me feel certain that if they used the software it wouldn't match even before the release of these results. By the way, a 48% match is very high, it's not scientifically conclusive, but if you take two random people off the street and compare there voices with voice recpgnition software, more often you'd be less then a 20% match, so really under the circumstances a 48% match is quite impressive. I take that 48% match, combined with all the reasons cited above, to be proof that there is a high probability that it is Zimmermans voice, and that is corroborated by John's testimony.

Oh yeah, I forgot one more thing. Cell phones compress the voice signal so much that much information is lost. Meaning comparing Zimmermans voice when he was on a cell phone can be yet one more factor that can throw off the results of a a voice analysis.
So... no?

This is what I want:

a) Evidence that it does or does not somehow account for those things.

b) A description of the specific procedure, if possible.

c) An estimated error rate calculated directly from that program's methodology.

d) Differing results from tests from other methods, if possible.

Listing potential problems, while useful information, does not tell me how much it affects the reading.
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George Zimmerman's 911 call indicates that Zimmerman stopped for a confirmed 90 seconds, so he wasn't following Trayvon. Trayvon apparent got to where he felt safe and called his girlfriend, probably from right outside the place he was staying. This guess is deduced based upon where George Zimmerman was when he stopped following Trayvon.

If Zimmerman stopped at point E and Trayvon stopped at or around point D, then the only way Trayvon could have been shot two minutes after Zimmerman hung up at point F is if Trayvon backtracked.

Sure, we cannot confirm why he backtracked, but considering an eye-witness saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmeran, beating on him, it seems logical that talking to his girlfriend might have emboldened Trayvon and he might have started the confrontation.

It's impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman meant to kill anyone for any reason. Despite media allegations, George Zimmerman is no racist. Anyway, I believe he's innocent, just like I believed the Duke Lacrosse team was innocent. I was right then and I think I'm right now.

This is another case where emotions are getting the better of people and they stop caring about all the evidence that doesn't neatly fit into how they believe things happened. Back when that Duke Lacrosse Case was happening, everyone was all fired up and passionate and so sure that those three boys were guilty, but I kept saying that there was something fishy, and as time past I became convinced they were innocent, and whenever I said what I believed people would get angry.

I got called a racist a few times then, too, but I wasn't a racist, and in the end it came out that I was right and the accuser had made the whole story up.


Cool story, bro. I am still waiting for the evidence that allowed you to conclude those things.

Hint: You keeo taking evidence out of its direct scope.


There is no conclusive evidence apart from George Zimmerman's word to prove factually what happened between the time Zimmerman hung up and when John saw Trayvon beating on him, but I've told you a very plausible explanation, which would make Zimmerman innocent, so he will be acquitted. In the absence of strong evidence to counter Zimmerman's story, of which there is none, the presecutor just can't win.
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There is no conclusive evidence apart from George Zimmerman's word to prove factually what happened between the time Zimmerman hung up and when John saw Trayvon beating on him, but I've told you a very plausible explanation, which would make Zimmerman innocent, so he will be acquitted. In the absence of strong evidence to counter Zimmerman's story, of which there is none, the presecutor just can't win.
Sure it is a possibility, but you did not present it as a mere possibility. Furthermore, probability is what matters, not possibility.

And, actually, that I've heard, there is not a strong case for Zimmerman acting in self defense. That Trayvon started a fight with Zimmerman is speculation, but that Zimmerman shot and murdered Trayvon is fact. There is also a strong case for Zimmerman using unnecesary force against Trayvon.

What say you about those pieces of the puzzle?
Omorose Panya
Kasumi of Vientown
There is no conclusive evidence apart from George Zimmerman's word to prove factually what happened between the time Zimmerman hung up and when John saw Trayvon beating on him, but I've told you a very plausible explanation, which would make Zimmerman innocent, so he will be acquitted. In the absence of strong evidence to counter Zimmerman's story, of which there is none, the presecutor just can't win.
Sure it is a possibility, but you did not present it as a mere possibility. Furthermore, probability is what matters, not possibility.

And, actually, that I've heard, there is not a strong case for Zimmerman acting in self defense. That Trayvon started a fight with Zimmerman is speculation, but that Zimmerman shot and murdered Trayvon is fact. There is also a strong case for Zimmerman using unnecesary force against Trayvon.

What say you about those pieces of the puzzle?

We should be pedantic in that Zimmerman murdering Treyvon isn't fact, not yet anyway. He killed him, but he hasn't yet been convicted of murder.
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As for your obnoxious post about voice recognition software, do you have any information critiquing the program's actual method of analysis? Not from a speculative point of view, but from a purely analytical perspective that estimates an error rate? Because "he made it" does not demonstrate that the system is faulty.

How could Owen have been using the same technology in that case when the web site says the software was only released on March 7th, 2012.

I will respond to that directly. It is plausible that he, as a developer or whatever, had access to and used it long before it was released for sale to the public.


Possibly that's true, but he's still using a program that he wrote and that he's selling for $5000 per license, that is a conflict of interest that the news failed to acknowledge.

That's less important then this part, though:

Quote:
Now, when I was in High School I happened to study biometrics and much of what was true then is still true now:

Here are the problems. Zimmerman was yelling for help, he was getting beaten up and he was panicked and scared. Those facts alone can make the voice be disguised and come back a false-negative. If you throw in physical blows to the face, belly, or groin that can really throw it off. Also a hit to the throat will almost guarantee a failure to match. The vocal cords are the most important part of the body for this software, so a hit to that spot will make ones voice much less recognizable by the software.

Also, the screams were background noise and there was a lot of interference, making one more obstacle when they tried to isolate just the screams. There may have been leftover interferance not audible to the human ear and that can throw the results off a bit too. In short, all those things made me feel certain that if they used the software it wouldn't match even before the release of these results. By the way, a 48% match is very high, it's not scientifically conclusive, but if you take two random people off the street and compare there voices with voice recpgnition software, more often you'd be less then a 20% match, so really under the circumstances a 48% match is quite impressive. I take that 48% match, combined with all the reasons cited above, to be proof that there is a high probability that it is Zimmermans voice, and that is corroborated by John's testimony.

Oh yeah, I forgot one more thing. Cell phones compress the voice signal so much that much information is lost. Meaning comparing Zimmermans voice when he was on a cell phone can be yet one more factor that can throw off the results of a a voice analysis.
So... no?

This is what I want:

a) Evidence that it does or does not somehow account for those things.

b) A description of the specific procedure, if possible.

c) An estimated error rate calculated directly from that program's methodology.

d) Differing results from tests from other methods, if possible.

Listing potential problems, while useful information, does not tell me how much it affects the reading.


Quote:
It has been argued that voiceprints may not be as individual as fingerprints. Certainly the technology for analysis is probably not as well developed. However, in one analysis of 2,000 cases by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the error rate in both false identification and false elimination of suspects was found to be very low.


Voice analysis has been compared to a polygraph in that is has a very high level of accuracy under controlled circumstances.

If you talk normally and then you repeat the same sentence while disguising your voice, usually the test will come back as a 90% to a 98% match, but rare people seem to have the ability to disguise their voices better then others and can be even lower.

Now, I'm not sure about this particular thing, but I imagine that comparing a calm talking voice to one that is screaming for help would probably be harder to match together then merely disguising ones voice.

If you talk normally into a cell phone and it is recorded on the other end, and at your end, at the same time, the same words are recorded, and those two tapes are compared using voice analysis, even though it sounds the same to the human ear, because the cellphone compresses the sound wave you'd probably get something like a 95% to a 98% match, depending on the cell phone.

Anyway, those are the definitive things that definitely need to be taken into consideration right away. Next is physical factors.

We know that George Zimmerman's head was being slammed into the ground, but we don't know what other injuries he suffered, so any of his injuries could have dramatically altered the sound waves he put out.

Just like how drugs can be used to help you fool the polygraph, physical injuries are the most effective way to fool a voice print analysis.
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There is no conclusive evidence apart from George Zimmerman's word to prove factually what happened between the time Zimmerman hung up and when John saw Trayvon beating on him, but I've told you a very plausible explanation, which would make Zimmerman innocent, so he will be acquitted. In the absence of strong evidence to counter Zimmerman's story, of which there is none, the presecutor just can't win.
Sure it is a possibility, but you did not present it as a mere possibility. Furthermore, probability is what matters, not possibility.

And, actually, that I've heard, there is not a strong case for Zimmerman acting in self defense. That Trayvon started a fight with Zimmerman is speculation, but that Zimmerman shot and murdered Trayvon is fact. There is also a strong case for Zimmerman using unnecesary force against Trayvon.

What say you about those pieces of the puzzle?




Even Alan Dershowitz, a law professor, and a democrat, and one of the most far left liberal guys in the country, acknowledges that the case against Zimmerman is pathetically weak, and anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves
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There is no conclusive evidence apart from George Zimmerman's word to prove factually what happened between the time Zimmerman hung up and when John saw Trayvon beating on him, but I've told you a very plausible explanation, which would make Zimmerman innocent, so he will be acquitted. In the absence of strong evidence to counter Zimmerman's story, of which there is none, the presecutor just can't win.
Sure it is a possibility, but you did not present it as a mere possibility. Furthermore, probability is what matters, not possibility.

And, actually, that I've heard, there is not a strong case for Zimmerman acting in self defense. That Trayvon started a fight with Zimmerman is speculation, but that Zimmerman shot and murdered killed Trayvon is fact. There is also a strong case for Zimmerman using unnecesary force against Trayvon.

What say you about those pieces of the puzzle?

We should be pedantic in that Zimmerman murdering Treyvon isn't fact, not yet anyway. He killed him, but he hasn't yet been convicted of murder.
Words have more than strictly legal definitions, sir. But if you insist upon splitting hairs, fine.

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