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Heimdalr's avatar

Mega Noob

Less Than Liz
Heimdalr
razorsarz
The case is junk and is going to fall apart fast. He will get off and FL is going to burn for it.

The case is legitimate in that there is reasonable doubt. The handling is what's generously saturated with fail.

You mean probable cause?

Is that a requirement? Not too familiar with Floridan law. I was thinking the circumstantial evidence provides enough doubt with the witness explanation that there is reasonable grounds for further investigation. That he be charged regardless of investigation is another thing.

Edit: I see, probable cause is a guaranteed right, but the requirements for such probability seems vague. We have the same thing in Norway but it seems kinda up to the investigators in charge.

Edit2: I'm going to court tomorrow. Haha.
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Probable cause is what you issue indictments (the formal accusation of a federal crime) based on. That is, there's a good reason to believe that a particular crime was committed by this particular person. That one's up to a grand jury.

Reasonable doubt's what you don't convict based on. That one's up to a petit jury.
The Infamous Unami's avatar

Conservative Raider

My money is on acquittal. Murder 2 just feels like an overreach. Manslaughter 2 and my money would have gone the other direction by a hair.
i was so happy that he was finally arrested. this just goes to show that if passionate people come together for a common goal, progress can be made. initially, he wasn't even arrested; it was the angry cries of justice that finally put pressure on this florida police. i'm still mad that he is only charged with 2nd degree and not 1st. the police clearly stated not to pursue, and zimmerman still took matters into his own hands...
GG Petite_
i was so happy that he was finally arrested. this just goes to show that if passionate people come together for a common goal, progress can be made. initially, he wasn't even arrested; it was the angry cries of justice that finally put pressure on this florida police. i'm still mad that he is only charged with 2nd degree and not 1st. the police clearly stated not to pursue, and zimmerman still took matters into his own hands...


In Florida, 1st degree murder would have required a Grand Jury. The prosecutor went with the highest they felt could be achieved. As it is, even though 2nd degree will be a tough job, they can still convict Zimmerman of a lesser charge under it.
Funny, I was just talking to a patient in the E.R about some riots that evidently happened in Tallahassee during the Rodney King fiasco. Gonna get me a shotgun before the verdict comes through for sure.
Less Than Liz's avatar

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Chains4w
My money is on acquittal. Murder 2 just feels like an overreach. Manslaughter 2 and my money would have gone the other direction by a hair.

Manslaughter 2? You mean involuntary manslaughter?
Heimdalr's avatar

Mega Noob

Wendigo
Probable cause is what you issue indictments (the formal accusation of a federal crime) based on. That is, there's a good reason to believe that a particular crime was committed by this particular person. That one's up to a grand jury.

Reasonable doubt's what you don't convict based on. That one's up to a petit jury.

I got wasted last night and confused probable cause with motive. Not sure how reasonable doubt got in there. Anyway my nerves are shot from bearing witness in a case today so I will go drink some more.
Bane of Ezekiel's avatar

Liberal Regular

Well it's about time.

They should've done the court trial as soon as the media hubbub started. The problem is now they're going to prolong the media circus just when it was about to die.

Don't get me wrong. The jist of the story is: Martin was walking back to the place he was staying. Zimmerman was suspicious and called the cops. In a wonderful world, he would've just waited for the cops. Instead, Zimmerman grabs the gun and follows Martin. Something happens and Zimmerman shoots Martin in self-defence, under Floridan law. Martin dies.

Yes, even if Martin did do something, Zimmerman still shot and killed a person. A person who's a kid. For all we know, Martin could have been spooked by Zimmerman, reacted in self-defence to this random who's tailing him, and then Zimmerman self-defended to the other's self-defence.

Ugh, what a s**t show.
Less Than Liz's avatar

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Heimdalr
I got wasted last night

I think you might be worse than some of us ED-P chat rats, given how often you say this =P
Heimdalr's avatar

Mega Noob

Less Than Liz
Heimdalr
I got wasted last night

I think you might be worse than some of us ED-P chat rats, given how often you say this =P

Itis true. Give me access to this supposed chat and I will fill your quota of drunk.,
Bane of Ezekiel
Well it's about time.

They should've done the court trial as soon as the media hubbub started. The problem is now they're going to prolong the media circus just when it was about to die.

Don't get me wrong. The jist of the story is: Martin was walking back to the place he was staying. Zimmerman was suspicious and called the cops. In a wonderful world, he would've just waited for the cops. Instead, Zimmerman grabs the gun and follows Martin. Something happens and Zimmerman shoots Martin in self-defence, under Floridan law. Martin dies.

Yes, even if Martin did do something, Zimmerman still shot and killed a person. A person who's a kid. For all we know, Martin could have been spooked by Zimmerman, reacted in self-defence to this random who's tailing him, and then Zimmerman self-defended to the other's self-defence.

Ugh, what a s**t show.


This kinda covers how I feel.
To be honest, even if Zimmerman's story was completely true, which I have some doubts about, he still looks like he was the aggressor here. I mean, I feel like the fact that he chased Martin down despite not actually seeing him commit any crimes, and the fact that such an action could easily scare someone... I'm having a hard time seeing how it's not at least manslaughter.
TheSilverNoble
Bane of Ezekiel
Well it's about time.

They should've done the court trial as soon as the media hubbub started. The problem is now they're going to prolong the media circus just when it was about to die.

Don't get me wrong. The jist of the story is: Martin was walking back to the place he was staying. Zimmerman was suspicious and called the cops. In a wonderful world, he would've just waited for the cops. Instead, Zimmerman grabs the gun and follows Martin. Something happens and Zimmerman shoots Martin in self-defence, under Floridan law. Martin dies.

Yes, even if Martin did do something, Zimmerman still shot and killed a person. A person who's a kid. For all we know, Martin could have been spooked by Zimmerman, reacted in self-defence to this random who's tailing him, and then Zimmerman self-defended to the other's self-defence.

Ugh, what a s**t show.


This kinda covers how I feel.
To be honest, even if Zimmerman's story was completely true, which I have some doubts about, he still looks like he was the aggressor here. I mean, I feel like the fact that he chased Martin down despite not actually seeing him commit any crimes, and the fact that such an action could easily scare someone... I'm having a hard time seeing how it's not at least manslaughter.


There's an eye witness though, who states that he clearly saw Martin on top of and beating the s**t out of Zimmermen, who was screaming for help. He even has the wounds to prove it. And the father said that the voice calling for help was not his son's.

The media(and the NBPs) are having a grand old time with this. The pictures they're showing of Treyvon are all 3 to 4 years old, while the ones they're showing of Zimmerman are from when he was 200 pounds heavier. Not to mention the bounty or threats of violence.
AshoftheMidnightRose
TheSilverNoble
Bane of Ezekiel
Well it's about time.

They should've done the court trial as soon as the media hubbub started. The problem is now they're going to prolong the media circus just when it was about to die.

Don't get me wrong. The jist of the story is: Martin was walking back to the place he was staying. Zimmerman was suspicious and called the cops. In a wonderful world, he would've just waited for the cops. Instead, Zimmerman grabs the gun and follows Martin. Something happens and Zimmerman shoots Martin in self-defence, under Floridan law. Martin dies.

Yes, even if Martin did do something, Zimmerman still shot and killed a person. A person who's a kid. For all we know, Martin could have been spooked by Zimmerman, reacted in self-defence to this random who's tailing him, and then Zimmerman self-defended to the other's self-defence.

Ugh, what a s**t show.


This kinda covers how I feel.
To be honest, even if Zimmerman's story was completely true, which I have some doubts about, he still looks like he was the aggressor here. I mean, I feel like the fact that he chased Martin down despite not actually seeing him commit any crimes, and the fact that such an action could easily scare someone... I'm having a hard time seeing how it's not at least manslaughter.


There's an eye witness though, who states that he clearly saw Martin on top of and beating the s**t out of Zimmermen, who was screaming for help. He even has the wounds to prove it. And the father said that the voice calling for help was not his son's.

The media(and the NBPs) are having a grand old time with this. The pictures they're showing of Treyvon are all 3 to 4 years old, while the ones they're showing of Zimmerman are from when he was 200 pounds heavier. Not to mention the bounty or threats of violence.


Source

While those claims have been disputed, there are at least some experts who do not think the voice belonged to Zimmerman.
I agree the use of pictures was shady.
The Infamous Unami's avatar

Conservative Raider

Less Than Liz
Chains4w
My money is on acquittal. Murder 2 just feels like an overreach. Manslaughter 2 and my money would have gone the other direction by a hair.

Manslaughter 2? You mean involuntary manslaughter?

Yes, that.

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