Welcome to Gaia! :: Gas prices shift energy opinions

Log In

Forgot your login?

Sign Up

Register
 
GST
 Post Reply
Gaia Forums » GAIA Community » Extended Discussion » Politics
Gas prices shift energy opinions
Tags: prices  shift  energy  opinions  mccain 
Export this topic to other sites using WildFire!
forum:58, topic:41483491
< 1 2 3
Report this post
Post: 41483491_31 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:05 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:05 pm
Online
"Omnileech"
"thrasymacus"
"Dolce Cherry"
I'm all for nuclear power plants. But we need to find an alternative to oil.
we have the technology for a pure electric car that could take 200 miles easily, the biggest hurdle was the battery but lithium ion technology among other things has completely negated that aspect, where's my fucking electric car?

f**k hydrogen fuel cells, electric would be vastly cheaper


Problem is how you get the electricity. If it's by burning coal and petroleum then... it's not too great.
Both are secondary energy, both need another energy source, and so on. Hydrogen is far better since its vastly powerful with more energy. Also the use of a hydrogen electrolysis used on turbines and on solar steam plants has been done and works great. Though, Bush is fucking up hydrogen by using coal and oil. stare
 
     


It is difficult to say what is impossible, since the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow.

Each vision is a joke until the first man not realized, once made, becomes ordinary.
Report this post
Post: 41483491_32 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:10 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:10 pm
Offline
 
"Resid3nt"
"AnarchoPhiliac"
I really don't understand how speculators "increase" prices in an oil futures market.


Speculators artificially create demand.

10 units of oil 5 buyers.
Speculators enter the realm and you "get" in a near future:
8 units of oil (since some units have been reserved) 5 buyers.

What happens? Less available, same supply, same demand, therefore prices go up.

Pretty simplified, but it's how it works

But you're forgetting how those two missing barrels came to be missing...

10 Barrels of Oil, 5 Buyers.
2 Futures are Bought, As well as the 10 Barrels.
12 Barrels of Oil were purchased in total, and the 5 buyers were undisrupted in their efforts to obtain supply.

This in effect counters the 2 Barrel shortage that occures during the cashing in the Future (which is what your example explained.) There is no artificial demand being created, merely an artificial supply that was created earlier being reassimilated into the market. The demand that you point out is delayed, not artificial.
     
Report this post
Post: 41483491_33 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:48 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:48 pm
Offline
"Unameh"
"Resid3nt"
"AnarchoPhiliac"
I really don't understand how speculators "increase" prices in an oil futures market.


Speculators artificially create demand.

10 units of oil 5 buyers.
Speculators enter the realm and you "get" in a near future:
8 units of oil (since some units have been reserved) 5 buyers.

What happens? Less available, same supply, same demand, therefore prices go up.

Pretty simplified, but it's how it works

But you're forgetting how those two missing barrels came to be missing...

10 Barrels of Oil, 5 Buyers.
2 Futures are Bought, As well as the 10 Barrels.
12 Barrels of Oil were purchased in total, and the 5 buyers were undisrupted in their efforts to obtain supply.

This in effect counters the 2 Barrel shortage that occures during the cashing in the Future (which is what your example explained.) There is no artificial demand being created, merely an artificial supply that was created earlier being reassimilated into the market. The demand that you point out is delayed, not artificial.


12 were bought now. 8 will be available later, not 10. EDIT~:; or 10 if the previous buyer decides to put the 2 barrels back on the market. He will want to have profit, then price goes up.
Supply can generate 10
(10+2) + (10-2) = 20
Supply is finite (in this case capped at 10 per period).
 
     
Report this post
Post: 41483491_34 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:45 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:45 pm
Offline
 
"Resid3nt"
"Unameh"
"Resid3nt"
"AnarchoPhiliac"
I really don't understand how speculators "increase" prices in an oil futures market.


Speculators artificially create demand.

10 units of oil 5 buyers.
Speculators enter the realm and you "get" in a near future:
8 units of oil (since some units have been reserved) 5 buyers.

What happens? Less available, same supply, same demand, therefore prices go up.

Pretty simplified, but it's how it works

But you're forgetting how those two missing barrels came to be missing...

10 Barrels of Oil, 5 Buyers.
2 Futures are Bought, As well as the 10 Barrels.
12 Barrels of Oil were purchased in total, and the 5 buyers were undisrupted in their efforts to obtain supply.

This in effect counters the 2 Barrel shortage that occures during the cashing in the Future (which is what your example explained.) There is no artificial demand being created, merely an artificial supply that was created earlier being reassimilated into the market. The demand that you point out is delayed, not artificial.


12 were bought now. 8 will be available later, not 10. EDIT~:; or 10 if the previous buyer decides to put the 2 barrels back on the market. He will want to have profit, then price goes up.
Supply can generate 10
(10+2) + (10-2) = 20
Supply is finite (in this case capped at 10 per period).

Exactly. But you failed to mention that the supply was Artificially Inflated, before it was Artificially Deflated in your example.

The earlier inflation of supply renders your argument about Artificial Demand moot. The Artificial Demand was met with Artificial Supply. Just as the tangible supply never changed, neither did the demand.
     
Report this post
Post: 41483491_35 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:10 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:10 pm
Offline
Speculators are people playing the futures market without ever wanting the commodity; hence, they will probably sell their future to someone who wants it to use at a later date.

Last I heard, speculators do not increase trends, they simply push them forward in time.
 
     
"Now, I'm no science major, but if I'm being told by a group of people that the protons, neutrons, and electrons need unifying, then I think we owe it to the American people to go in and unify them"
Report this post
Post: 41483491_36 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:47 pm
Offline
 
"Unameh"
]Exactly. But you failed to mention that the supply was Artificially Inflated, before it was Artificially Deflated in your example.

Supply wasn't inflated. It was re-routed.

Quote:

The earlier inflation of supply renders your argument about Artificial Demand moot. The Artificial Demand was met with Artificial Supply. Just as the tangible supply never changed, neither did the demand.

Artificial demand was met by re-routed supply. Re-routed, and therefore less supply has to deal with, still, regular demand. If less is present in the market, prices go up.
     
Report this post
Post: 41483491_37 created on Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:28 pmPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:28 pm
Offline
I do not see how supply is diminished. If you want to buy oil you have a couple of options: buy a barrel from a supplier or you can buy a future that is set to expire. This is what you are forgetting, the future contracts from the past.
 
     
"Now, I'm no science major, but if I'm being told by a group of people that the protons, neutrons, and electrons need unifying, then I think we owe it to the American people to go in and unify them"
< 1 2 3
 Post Reply
Gaia Forums » GAIA Community » Extended Discussion » Politics
 Subscribe to Topic  Report this Topic