Edward Snowden LET OUT NASA SECERTS!

[BATCATGIRL]

bannedmanswag03

BATCATGIRL

bannedmanswag03

Heimdalr

Now I'm very disappointed this has nothing to do with aliens, rockets, or asteroids on collision course.

Hong Kong is a good choice I guess. It's a major trade hub, so the US government won't disrupt it with high-profile assassination, probably not even hire local thugs. Cat's out of the bag, so there's little to be done realistically. Unless alphabet agency higher-ups takes it personally, he's safe for now.

I disagree. As with Manning, they will likely kill or imprison him in a secret torture facility to strike fear into the hearts of information-freedom activists.

The thing is people tend to forget some how. That we are working bees for the Queen bee. If we working bees go against Queen bee then its no longer Queen Bee. Because Queen Bee needs working bees. We forget how much powerful we are than the Queen Bee.

Yeah, but when regular tactics don't work too good, she starts using fear, intimidation, and outright violence, and then we have to fight a whole war.

But we can't let the Queen Bee going like this

[Patton]

*takes upon himself a Trevor Goodchild accent* The dream to awaken our world...

I truly hope the Attorney General does his job in this instance. It has to be some kind of crime for a whistleblower to...reveal whatever it was that he actually revealed. Expose the secret that the Sun rises in the East, or something. rolleyes

[Omnileech]

Patton

*takes upon himself a Trevor Goodchild accent* The dream to awaken our world...

I truly hope the Attorney General does his job in this instance. It has to be some kind of crime for a whistleblower to...reveal whatever it was that he actually revealed. Expose the secret that the Sun rises in the East, or something. rolleyes

It depends on who he leaked the information to. He probably won't be punished too severely if at all because he's not as reckless and Manning.

[Less Than Liz]

The mere fact that Manning was in the military creates a whole host of issues that won't be present in the case of a CIA contractor.

[Chibi Halo]

Hong Kong wasn't the best choice in places to hide out. He claims he went there because they're more receptive to freedom of speech and political dissidence. Did he forget which country runs Hong Kong now? He's not in a British territory but rather an island under Chinese control. And he thinks they're going to be all for freedom of speech and political dissidence? Uh...Snowden your secrets you leaked could end up in the hands of one of our staunchest political adversaries when it comes to matters of intelligence. Imagine what the Chinese government would do with all of the secrets he's throwing out into the wind.

Snowden knew what he was doing was outright illegal. He was told day in and day out before he took his position in the CIA and as a contractor for the NSA that unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a crime. However, he went against all of that because he was having doubts and second thoughts about what he was told to do. Yet all of a sudden he woke up one day and began to feel guilty about his job and questioned the morality of the whole program, which was legal according to the court order he leaked. He violated his NDA and broke the law and then when he knew his interview was going to be published and put out there he played the doctor's visits card and lied to his girlfriend, who didn't know she was being lied to because she was used to him being gone for undisclosed periods of time so she didn't question why he was leaving the states. It's kind of convenient that he was diagnosed with epilepsy last year after a series of seizures. He more than likely lied to his bosses about needing treatment from the doctor and time off for it so he could skip the country.

[azulmagia]

Chibi Halo

Hong Kong wasn't the best choice in places to hide out. He claims he went there because they're more receptive to freedom of speech and political dissidence. Did he forget which country runs Hong Kong now?

Maybe he should have gone to Sweden. Punchline too obvious to include.

Quote:

Uh...Snowden your secrets you leaked could end up in the hands of one of our staunchest political adversaries when it comes to matters of intelligence. Imagine what the Chinese government would do with all of the secrets he's throwing out into the wind.

Actually I can't imagine what the Chinese could do. This is the kind of secret that's only kept secret in order to keep the population in the dark.

Quote:

Snowden knew what he was doing was outright illegal. He was told day in and day out before he took his position in the CIA and as a contractor for the NSA that unauthorized disclosure of classified information is a crime.

The world's smallest violin is playing for your misplaced concern over Snowden breaking the so-called law.

Quote:

However, he went against all of that because he was having doubts and second thoughts about what he was told to do. Yet all of a sudden he woke up one day and began to feel guilty about his job and questioned the morality of the whole program, which was legal according to the court order he leaked.

Which is entirely to Snowdon's credit.

Quote:

He violated his NDA and broke the law and then when he knew his interview was going to be published and put out there he played the doctor's visits card and lied to his girlfriend, who didn't know she was being lied to because she was used to him being gone for undisclosed periods of time so she didn't question why he was leaving the states. It's kind of convenient that he was diagnosed with epilepsy last year after a series of seizures. He more than likely lied to his bosses about needing treatment from the doctor and time off for it so he could skip the country.

If you're willing to work as an apologist for the regime, you should have the self-respect to at least demand a paycheque for doing so.

And what's this impugning of motive? What's this bullshit, "It's kind of convenient that he was diagnosed with epilepsy last year after a series of seizures". If he was having seizures, epilepsy will cause those. Are you actually trying to imply he was faking having epilepsy?

[Chibi Halo]

azulmagia

Where did it sound like I was apologizing for what's going on? People are calling a guy who broke the law a hero when he isn't. We all knew this was going on for years or did people conveniently forget about the wiretapping done during the Bush era and the fact that he wanted to do it without any warrants and court orders? I just don't get why people are acting like this is something shocking and Snowden show be given a medal of honor for it. In the eyes of the courts yes it's legal to be doing this because they have a court order from the FISA courts.

Its it morally right to be doing this type of surveillance? Apparently Snowden had a change of heart once he actually started doing this work for the NSA but that doesn't give him the right to illegally disclose classified information. It seems like nobody wants to admit that he broke the law to do this.

[Heimdalr]

Chibi Halo

Hong Kong wasn't the best choice in places to hide out. He claims he went there because they're more receptive to freedom of speech and political dissidence. Did he forget which country runs Hong Kong now? He's not in a British territory but rather an island under Chinese control.

It's true, China isn't the most friendly to this new tide of transparency that sweeps the West. But like Russia, they will seek to undermine the US any way they can, and thus such regimes become valuable allies of whistleblowers. This means that China can hide behind plausible deniability and declare that they really do not have much power over Hong Kong which serves two distinctly beneficial purposes. It's unfortunate that we need this political ecology, but the end result seems appropriate.

[azulmagia]

Chibi Halo

azulmagia

Where did it sound like I was apologizing for what's going on? People are calling a guy who broke the law a hero when he isn't. We all knew this was going on for years or did people conveniently forget about the wiretapping done during the Bush era and the fact that he wanted to do it without any warrants and court orders? I just don't get why people are acting like this is something shocking and Snowden show be given a medal of honor for it. In the eyes of the courts yes it's legal to be doing this because they have a court order from the FISA courts.

Its it morally right to be doing this type of surveillance? Apparently Snowden had a change of heart once he actually started doing this work for the NSA but that doesn't give him the right to illegally disclose classified information. It seems like nobody wants to admit that he broke the law to do this.

The only justification for any law, is that it prevents or rectifies injustice. Otherwise a law is nothing more than an imposition.

And what the ******** is the rule of law these days anyway? Torture? Illegal. Financial fraud? Also illegal. Yet I don't see the most conspicuous perpetrators of same indicted let alone convicted and sent to jail. So it would seem that law is basically the tool of the powerful, who are largely immune to same. That's elementary injustice right there. It gets even worse when you see nightmare decisions like SCOTUS handed down on collecting DNA samples.

What makes Snowden a hero is that he's making people aware just how far they're really being taken down the surveillance state path. Fascism is still fascism no matter how many legal t's have been crossed and how many i's have been dotted, so don't take any degree of comfort in the claim that this is all legal. It's only legal to the extent that it is also constitutional, and if it's really constitutional, then that opens up another cans of worms, doesn't it?

[Ammo Amy]

Heimdalr

It's true, China isn't the most friendly to this new tide of transparency that sweeps the West. But like Russia, they will seek to undermine the US any way they can, and thus such regimes become valuable allies of whistleblowers. This means that China can hide behind plausible deniability and declare that they really do not have much power over Hong Kong which serves two distinctly beneficial purposes. It's unfortunate that we need this political ecology, but the end result seems appropriate.

Not to mention that once Snowden outlives his usefulness, an accident can be arranged and everyone will blame the US intelligence community for it. It's a win-win for China, and Snowden should realize just how long his useful lifetime is likely to be. At the very least, China can trade him to the US for something they want more.

[Heimdalr]

Ammo Amy

Heimdalr

It's true, China isn't the most friendly to this new tide of transparency that sweeps the West. But like Russia, they will seek to undermine the US any way they can, and thus such regimes become valuable allies of whistleblowers. This means that China can hide behind plausible deniability and declare that they really do not have much power over Hong Kong which serves two distinctly beneficial purposes. It's unfortunate that we need this political ecology, but the end result seems appropriate.

Not to mention that once Snowden outlives his usefulness, an accident can be arranged and everyone will blame the US intelligence community for it. It's a win-win for China, and Snowden should realize just how long his useful lifetime is likely to be. At the very least, China can trade him to the US for something they want more.

Oh, I don't think China will compromise their relationship with Hong Kong over this guy. Seems more likely they'll just lord him over the alphabet agencies for a while and when he inevitably leaves for Ecuador or Iceland they will have promoted their status in the eyes of many. They're not stupid, and they have good control of their goons.

[Ammo Amy]

Heimdalr

Ammo Amy

Heimdalr

It's true, China isn't the most friendly to this new tide of transparency that sweeps the West. But like Russia, they will seek to undermine the US any way they can, and thus such regimes become valuable allies of whistleblowers. This means that China can hide behind plausible deniability and declare that they really do not have much power over Hong Kong which serves two distinctly beneficial purposes. It's unfortunate that we need this political ecology, but the end result seems appropriate.

Not to mention that once Snowden outlives his usefulness, an accident can be arranged and everyone will blame the US intelligence community for it. It's a win-win for China, and Snowden should realize just how long his useful lifetime is likely to be. At the very least, China can trade him to the US for something they want more.

Oh, I don't think China will compromise their relationship with Hong Kong over this guy. Seems more likely they'll just lord him over the alphabet agencies for a while and when he inevitably leaves for Ecuador or Iceland they will have promoted their status in the eyes of many. They're not stupid, and they have good control of their goons.

Hong Kong is part of China and the current arrangement exists on the good will of the international community and China. If push comes to shove, China will gladly show Hong Kong who their lord and master is.

[Heimdalr]

Ammo Amy

Heimdalr

Ammo Amy

Heimdalr

It's true, China isn't the most friendly to this new tide of transparency that sweeps the West. But like Russia, they will seek to undermine the US any way they can, and thus such regimes become valuable allies of whistleblowers. This means that China can hide behind plausible deniability and declare that they really do not have much power over Hong Kong which serves two distinctly beneficial purposes. It's unfortunate that we need this political ecology, but the end result seems appropriate.

Not to mention that once Snowden outlives his usefulness, an accident can be arranged and everyone will blame the US intelligence community for it. It's a win-win for China, and Snowden should realize just how long his useful lifetime is likely to be. At the very least, China can trade him to the US for something they want more.

Oh, I don't think China will compromise their relationship with Hong Kong over this guy. Seems more likely they'll just lord him over the alphabet agencies for a while and when he inevitably leaves for Ecuador or Iceland they will have promoted their status in the eyes of many. They're not stupid, and they have good control of their goons.

Hong Kong is part of China and the current arrangement exists on the good will of the international community and China. If push comes to shove, China will gladly show Hong Kong who their lord and master is.

What I meant was, the guy isn't worth the popular satisfaction within the trading hub that millions rely on to ship their goods. Its productivity is the mainstay of China's rise to power. The US would have to offer something of equal worth, like Alaska.

[Ammo Amy]

Heimdalr

What I meant was, the guy isn't worth the popular satisfaction within the trading hub that millions rely on to ship their goods. Its productivity is the mainstay of China's rise to power. The US would have to offer something of equal worth, like Alaska.

You are right. Snowden isn't worth China revoking Hong Kong's special status, and by that, Hong Kong isn't going to risk their special status by going out of their way for Snowden.

Snowden's value is going to be either about what he knows that China can use against the US, or what China can get from the US in exchange for turning over Snowden. If Snowden's value proves not to benefit China, something will happen and the CIA will get the blame. China wins in all scenarios.

Now, if Snowden manages to escape to another country, such as the Iceland option, then he may find real asylum, but he has to get to their embassy, first. China may not allow him to pull a Julian Assange.