CA moves to abolish the death penalty.

[Less Than Liz]

Prawfsblog commentary.
SF Chronicle article
Ballotpedia link.

Quote:

Proposition 34, titled by election officials as "Death Penalty. Initiative Statute", is on the November 6, 2012 ballot in California as an initiated state statute.

If the state's voters approve it, Proposition 34 will eliminate the death penalty in California and replace it with life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Specifically, Proposition 34 will:

- Repeal the death penalty as maximum punishment for persons found guilty of murder and replace it with life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

- Apply retroactively to persons already sentenced to death.

- Require persons found guilty of murder to work while in prison, with their wages to be applied to any victim restitution fines or orders against them.

- Create a $100 million fund to be distributed to law enforcement agencies to help solve more homicide and rape cases.

The death penalty is something I personally think is incredibly important to discuss, and with all the focus of ballot initiatives being on those involving gay marriage, I'd like to shift to the CA initiative to abolish the death penalty.

I've already stated my opinion on it in the past and won't waste time copying and pasting it here. Suffice to say, I strongly condemn it. That said, I would like to discuss a few things, namely: (1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally; (2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless; (3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

I think this last question is more interesting since, as the PrawfsBlog post notes, the state of the death penalty has been in flux since its inception, with various moratoriums having already occurred. I would also like to hear opinions from posters outside the United States.

[The Curse]

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Against it. I don't think the state should have the capacity to murder its own citizens, as it defies the logic of the government as a service on top of all the other moral arguments.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life in prison is good. Working in prison much less so. Sounds more like slavery to me.

However voluntary work should be encouraged, and perhaps work towards parole as well.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

The death penalty in Australia is banned, and that is a good thing so I see it remaining that way. I endorse all moves to ban it by the various states of the USA and would support a federal ban as well.

[Noogie]

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Agin' it. At least if one were innocent, they could always be freed with new evidence or on appeal. It's no good if they're dead.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life for anyone worthy of a death sentence, that is, anyone who there is no possibility of being placed safely back into society. I'd be wary of slavery claims, but I have no problem with prisoners working towards improving their time.

When I was doing Politics & Law at high school, we looked at how hard it is to get integrated back into society after doing time, I'd figure it'd be good to get out with what you had earned behind bars and ideally get placed into a job (probably with government handouts for businesses willing to place them), because I know there'd be stigma in taking on a prisoner.

I'm not one to think of prison as a place to be punished, I hate that people want prison terms increased just because a particular crime has been committed against them or a loved one. Justice should be even handed and jail should be a place to make contributors to society out of the dregs of society.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

We're civilised-ish. wink

[Major Lima Charlie]

The Curse

The death penalty in Australia is banned

Isn't that only because living in Australia is a death sentence in and of itself? emotion_awesome

[The Infamous Unami]

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

In theory, I am strongly in favor. I believe that fear of retaliation and retribution is what keeps our world from descending into bloody, rapey chaos. This fear should extend to those who commit heinous murders. The notion that one can butcher dozens, and then spend the rest of his life in peace and relative comfort on the taxpayer dime enrages me.

In practice, however, it causes more problems that I think it helps mitigate. Chief among these is that the desire to avoid executing an innocent man leads to a lengthy appeal process that takes decades, and costs the taxpayers more money than if we had simply left the monsters alone to rot.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life without payroll in a forced labor camp. Mississippi chain-gang style, only without the bad optics of the chains. Severely limited rations of the most base and tasteless food. Very limited sleep. Highly hazardous duties, such as hurricane and wildfire fortification. When neither is available, public works such as irrigation, sewer and road maintenance.

Ideally the combination of back-breaking labor and no comfort at all in this world will reduce the average lifespan of the inmates by twenty years or more. A win/win/win: They die soon, saving us money; They live the last years of their lives in constant torment, exacting justice through pain, and finally; Their torment benefits us through useful labor. As a bonus, the knowledge of this potential fate will still serve as a deterrent above and beyond mere incarceration in a penitentiary.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

It will eventually be abolished. In my state (OR) before the country at large. Though, unless the SCotUS intervenes, we will not live to see it abolished in most of the South.

[Phallic Wonderland]

The Curse

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Against it. I don't think the state should have the capacity to murder its own citizens, as it defies the logic of the government as a service on top of all the other moral arguments.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life in prison is good. Working in prison much less so. Sounds more like slavery to me.

However voluntary work should be encouraged, and perhaps work towards parole as well.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

The death penalty in Australia is banned, and that is a good thing so I see it remaining that way. I endorse all moves to ban it by the various states of the USA and would support a federal ban as well.

I'm sure you're not aware of how boring it is in prison. Working helps the time pass, and if they are making money, even IF it goes towards restitution, it isn't slavery. I mean heck, my brother in law currently prepares jello, pudding and pie in prison. Many types of work in prison. I consider it as being responsible for the housing you live in. After all, someone else is paying for your food and shelter.

[Gopher dude]

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Too expensive, highly immoral, increases crime, doesn't deter it, a punishment only seen acceptable in a society that is more concerned with punishing it's own people then rehabilitation.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Depends on why they committed their crimes, it's not exactly a black and white sort of situation- even though the death penalty makes it that way. If it's for financial reasons I'd rather see the vast majority of prisoners working and getting some sort of prison educated or prison diploma so they can go out of their confident in being their own person (LIKE THAT WILL HAPPEN- EDUCATION?!?! PFFT).

The only other s**t I could possible see working is work studios and programs to make them feel or at least be more human if it's one of those psychological things: Taking care of animals, the arts, reading, writing, etc.. The penitentiary system treats people like criminals. How are they expected to be anything else?

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

I LIVE IN CANADA. IT'S BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE 1962. yum_pizza yum_tuna yum_sausage yum_pizza yum_burger

YOU SAVAGES. yum_bacon yum_tea yum_strawberry

[Major Lima Charlie]

Phallic Wonderland

The Curse

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Against it. I don't think the state should have the capacity to murder its own citizens, as it defies the logic of the government as a service on top of all the other moral arguments.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life in prison is good. Working in prison much less so. Sounds more like slavery to me.

However voluntary work should be encouraged, and perhaps work towards parole as well.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

The death penalty in Australia is banned, and that is a good thing so I see it remaining that way. I endorse all moves to ban it by the various states of the USA and would support a federal ban as well.

I'm sure you're not aware of how boring it is in prison. Working helps the time pass, and if they are making money, even IF it goes towards restitution, it isn't slavery. I mean heck, my brother in law currently prepares jello, pudding and pie in prison. Many types of work in prison. I consider it as being responsible for the housing you live in. After all, someone else is paying for your food and shelter.

He's talking about privatized prisons who sell out prisoner labor to the highest bidder. They're bullshit. One of the largest growing industries in the US though, and corporate lobbyists are always eager to push legislators to vote in their favor. And that explains why even though crime has been going down, incarceration rates are going up.

[Phallic Wonderland]

Major Lima Charlie

Phallic Wonderland

The Curse

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Against it. I don't think the state should have the capacity to murder its own citizens, as it defies the logic of the government as a service on top of all the other moral arguments.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life in prison is good. Working in prison much less so. Sounds more like slavery to me.

However voluntary work should be encouraged, and perhaps work towards parole as well.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

The death penalty in Australia is banned, and that is a good thing so I see it remaining that way. I endorse all moves to ban it by the various states of the USA and would support a federal ban as well.

I'm sure you're not aware of how boring it is in prison. Working helps the time pass, and if they are making money, even IF it goes towards restitution, it isn't slavery. I mean heck, my brother in law currently prepares jello, pudding and pie in prison. Many types of work in prison. I consider it as being responsible for the housing you live in. After all, someone else is paying for your food and shelter.

He's talking about privatized prisons who sell out prisoner labor to the highest bidder. They're bullshit. One of the largest growing industries in the US though, and corporate lobbyists are always eager to push legislators to vote in their favor. And that explains why even though crime has been going down, incarceration rates are going up.

Ahh, bro-in-law is in state. I will Google that fo' sho'.

[Major Lima Charlie]

Phallic Wonderland

Major Lima Charlie

Phallic Wonderland

The Curse

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Against it. I don't think the state should have the capacity to murder its own citizens, as it defies the logic of the government as a service on top of all the other moral arguments.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Life in prison is good. Working in prison much less so. Sounds more like slavery to me.

However voluntary work should be encouraged, and perhaps work towards parole as well.

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

The death penalty in Australia is banned, and that is a good thing so I see it remaining that way. I endorse all moves to ban it by the various states of the USA and would support a federal ban as well.

I'm sure you're not aware of how boring it is in prison. Working helps the time pass, and if they are making money, even IF it goes towards restitution, it isn't slavery. I mean heck, my brother in law currently prepares jello, pudding and pie in prison. Many types of work in prison. I consider it as being responsible for the housing you live in. After all, someone else is paying for your food and shelter.

He's talking about privatized prisons who sell out prisoner labor to the highest bidder. They're bullshit. One of the largest growing industries in the US though, and corporate lobbyists are always eager to push legislators to vote in their favor. And that explains why even though crime has been going down, incarceration rates are going up.

Ahh, bro-in-law is in state. I will Google that fo' sho'.

State prisons at least don't utilize prisoners like indentured labor.

[Origin of Wealth]

I thought I already made a topic for this....

Yup, I did but it has since been buried. Well then, my opinion on this matter is that the death penalty in California is cost ineffective due the time it takes to actually execute someone (25 years) as well as the numerous appeals between those 25 years. And with the state having budget problems, this is a cost that the California frankly can do without. (Nevermind CA's general incarceration problem....)

[The Infamous Unami]

Major Lima Charlie

State prisons at least don't utilize prisoners like indentured labor.

O RLY?

Quote:

The agency doesn't expect a catastrophic event, said MEMA spokesman Greg Flynn.

The state has "a good number of prisoners there ready to begin sandbagging if it comes to it," Flynn said.

[Less Than Liz]

Origin of Wealth

I thought I already made a topic for this....

WRITE BETTAH PROMPTS, BRO.

[UF6]

Gopher dude

Quote:

(1) what are your opinions on the death penalty, generally;

Too expensive, highly immoral, increases crime, doesn't deter it, a punishment only seen acceptable in a society that is more concerned with punishing it's own people then rehabilitation.

Quote:

(2) if you're opposed, what are your preferred alternatives and, if you are in favor, are there any alternatives you might be willing to entertain nonetheless;

Depends on why they committed their crimes, it's not exactly a black and white sort of situation- even though the death penalty makes it that way. If it's for financial reasons I'd rather see the vast majority of prisoners working and getting some sort of prison educated or prison diploma so they can go out of their confident in being their own person (LIKE THAT WILL HAPPEN- EDUCATION?!?! PFFT).

The only other s**t I could possible see working is work studios and programs to make them feel or at least be more human if it's one of those psychological things: Taking care of animals, the arts, reading, writing, etc.. The penitentiary system treats people like criminals. How are they expected to be anything else?

Quote:

(3) what do you think the future of the death penalty is in (a) your state, and; (b) the country?

I LIVE IN CANADA. IT'S BEEN ILLEGAL SINCE 1962. yum_pizza yum_tuna yum_sausage yum_pizza yum_burger

YOU SAVAGES. yum_bacon yum_tea yum_strawberry

It was still legal to get a death penalty in 1962 from killing police offers of wardens. That was later banned in 1976. Also not till 1998 was the death penalty taken out of the Canadian National Defence Act.

[Less Than Liz]

Steven Hawkings

It was still legal to get a death penalty in 1962 from killing police offers of wardens. That was later banned in 1966. Also not till 1998 was the death penalty taken out of the Canadian National Defence Act.

Shhhh, don't confuse him. Commuting sentences and an ensuing moratorium are exactly the same as partially abolishing it in the 70s.