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As much as I am disgusted and cant stand the Obama administration(including Biden, Hillary and the rest of these jokers) I think the worst hate should be reserved by us all toward Bush's neocon and CIA pals. John Yoo, Albert Gonzalez, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Cheney, Wolfowitz. Evil scumbags who did way more harm than some mujahadin getting blown up by drones.

Well one of the top heads of CIA clandestine activities has come out with a book and a 60 minutes cbs interview defending 'harsh interrogations'...claiming "we didnt torture" and that these techniques worked

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/03/11522191-what-is-torture-ex-cia-official-renews-debate?lite

Well we know the US military and CIA *DID* torture, in the most brutal and horrific ways.
Using Iraqi and Egyptian officers at black sites to torture to death captured Iraqis.
We know Abu Zubayda was pretty much almost killed by torture by the CIA, and they even removed one of the guys eyes. We know they brutally tortured a few other "al Qaeda" suspects

The "they just waterboarded" meme was a limited hangout so the public wouldnt know how hardcore things got.

At Abu Gharib they killed a few guys, one guy pretty much beaten to mush. Another guy left to freeze to death.

Noone got in trouble, cept for some patsy guards at Abu Gharib. In one interview Jon Yoo said theyd crush the testicles of a terrorist's child if it meant getting information out.
When word came out Cheney was having the CIA torture Khalid Sheikh Mohamed to force him to claim Saddam was working with bin Laden...as well as putting drills and guns to the heads of al Qaeda suspects, threatening to rape their wives and kill their kids in front of them...folks HOW is this not torture?


And noone got in trouble. Only low level guys or whistleblowers trying to expose this horror show
Of course they continue to lie, because thats how they got away with it. Past tense, they already did. None of them will ever face justice. The very moment when I became an Obama opponent was when I realized he was going to be complicit in having war criminals get away unscathed by law.

Not surprising though, If you ever read Straus and the Neocon ideologues he inspired ( these are the intellectual fathers of the bush doctrine and mentors of Wolfowitz, Rice, etc.) you can understand their rationale. To the Straussian, the end doesnt only justify the means, it changes the nature of the means themselves. To the Neocon, torture is torture unless its done in the protection of american interests, at which point its just susing the necessary interrogation techniques.
Disa Uniflora's avatar

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I actually saw this interview. He acted basically exactly how one would expect the CIA to, dismissing the electorate and the views of their elected representatives and anybody else disagreeing with them entirely, feuding on and on with the FBI and other conflicting agencies, on the one hand carefully denying very specific claims but on the other acting all "LIKE I EVEN GIVE A ********" about everything else, like he shoots a fresh terrorist in the neck every morning just to hit his stride.

Basically, he was a complete asshat.
God king takes all of the glory for killing OBL would not have got him with out the use of "torture." As fot the stuff about Mitt no going after OBL, he had to sleep on it and everyone was telling him not to do it as well.
Dude, you know the guys at the top aren't going to get a shitbagging from the electorate, and the excuse will always be made these guys misinterpreted orders. And ironically could say anything whilst questioned under pressure.

Sure, the CIA wouldn't waterboard its own, but when faced with any answer you provide will either land you in prison, or in cases like Manning, possible death, many will say what the questioners want to hear.

It is sad when it is mostly proven any information under extreme forms of questioning is largely false, and the motivation for the one being questioned is for the questioning to cease.

And you gotta stop bagging out Obama. You may have been a little saddened by the 'hope' he successfully has delivered, since everyone it seems was hoping for more, but you have seen the idiots they have running against him yeah?

I am guessing you won't be voting, which is exactly what the Republicans are hoping for.
Darth_Nader
Of course they continue to lie, because thats how they got away with it. Past tense, they already did. None of them will ever face justice. The very moment when I became an Obama opponent was when I realized he was going to be complicit in having war criminals get away unscathed by law.

Not surprising though, If you ever read Straus and the Neocon ideologues he inspired ( these are the intellectual fathers of the bush doctrine and mentors of Wolfowitz, Rice, etc.) you can understand their rationale. To the Straussian, the end doesnt only justify the means, it changes the nature of the means themselves. To the Neocon, torture is torture unless its done in the protection of american interests, at which point its just susing the necessary interrogation techniques.


Oh yeah, seen some pretty good documentaries on the history of the neocons.

What's VERY odd is they are often not at all religious fundies or care about social issues. Some may in fact be very ok with gay rights. Most liberals confuse GOP and social conservatives with neocons. Neocons are not interested in banning abortion, stopping gay marriage, stopping health care, etc. They are solely focused on a pax americana/zionist/western strategem.

I don't think they realize they do bad, they see it as the greater good for America. Just like Obama justifying endless drone attacks that hurt a lot of civilians, they easily dismiss hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis as acceptable for the greater good of "spreading Democracy"

Some neocons are atheist, moderate Christians, practicing and non practicing Jews, even some Muslims and Hindis. But they all have this obsession with shaping the world as per a grand chessboard

Stranger, many come from a neo liberal background, some might even say Trotskyites.
My issue politically has more to do with the public and the media believing the "torture" in question was simply waterboarding. When in fact the US military, CIA and proxy states engaged in brutal and horrific torture that lead to some deaths and permanent injury.

Even if someone's son died in the tower, and they had someone in a room 100% confirmed to have been in on the 9/11 plot...can one really feel morally ok with the same sort of torture the terrorists employ? Maybe shooting them execution style, but torture?

al Qaeda came about because Egyptian guards would brutally torture Muslim brotherhood and Egyptian Jihad members. Even having dogs anally rape them and other terrible things. (back in the early 80's and 70's before and after the Anwar Sadat killing) Not saying that's an excuse, but this kind of horror show just is never cool.

I was dismayed seeing Biden, Obama, Hillary, Mullen, etc laugh it up and casually talk about the close quarter nail biting days leading up to and including the day of the bin Laden kill...saying how it was justice and how many people bin Laden killed. Im thinking, was it right to kill and injure so many innocent Muslims across several wars in the name of 'fighting terrorists'? At what point do we stop being saviors and end up like the Islamic terrorists?
That is because they have money and nothing is more important than money.
pockybot
My issue politically has more to do with the public and the media believing the "torture" in question was simply waterboarding. When in fact the US military, CIA and proxy states engaged in brutal and horrific torture that lead to some deaths and permanent injury.

Even if someone's son died in the tower, and they had someone in a room 100% confirmed to have been in on the 9/11 plot...can one really feel morally ok with the same sort of torture the terrorists employ? Maybe shooting them execution style, but torture?

al Qaeda came about because Egyptian guards would brutally torture Muslim brotherhood and Egyptian Jihad members. Even having dogs anally rape them and other terrible things. (back in the early 80's and 70's before and after the Anwar Sadat killing) Not saying that's an excuse, but this kind of horror show just is never cool.

I was dismayed seeing Biden, Obama, Hillary, Mullen, etc laugh it up and casually talk about the close quarter nail biting days leading up to and including the day of the bin Laden kill...saying how it was justice and how many people bin Laden killed. Im thinking, was it right to kill and injure so many innocent Muslims across several wars in the name of 'fighting terrorists'? At what point do we stop being saviors and end up like the Islamic terrorists?


Don't forget that his book also discloses that, contrary to her contradictory statements, Pelosi knew all about it.

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