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Illegal immigrants pose a huge problem for the US. Considering the following information from self-proclaimed lefty Mart Nemko (I suggest reading the whole article, and not just the tid-bits I pulled out), I propose that any illegal immigrant who is caught commiting a crime or has commited a crime be shot. Not only will this greatly reduce the crimes performed by illegal immigrants, it will discourage others from trying to illegally cross our borders. In order to further discourage these illegals, all access to health care, education, and other free resources must be denied to them. Therefore it would be very unprofitable for illegals to stay in the US, because they will not have free resources and if they commit a crime, they will be killed.

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-- "The number of illegal immigrants in the US has more than doubled in the past decade to at least 9,000,000, the population of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined, and the rate is accelerating."

-- "The Center for Immigration Studies has calculated that illegals have already cost American workers $133 billion in salary cuts and job losses. According to a study by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, illegal immigration combined with the rampant offshoring of US jobs promises to significantly shrink the middle and working class, forcing ever more people into poverty."

-- "Bush claims that Guest Workers do work that legal Americans won't. If that were true, then in the 35 states with few illegals (87 percent of illegals reside in just 15 states), lawns wouldn't get mowed, hotel rooms wouldn't get cleaned, buildings wouldn't get built, and crops wouldn't get picked. In those states, employers simply have to pay a living wage and provide decent working conditions to get people to do that work."

-- "...US law requires that all illegals receive free public education K-12. The Federation for American Immigration Reform estimates that this costs $7.4 billion dollars each year."

-- "The birthrate among illegals is double that of legal US residents. The Pew Hispanic Center calculates that within seven years, the children of immigrants, legal and illegal, will account for one in nine school-age children in the US. The Urban Institute estimates that already, 15% of all school children in California are illegals, many of whom speak little English. These students are usually mainstreamed in classes with native English speakers. This means that teachers must slow down instruction, denying native English speakers their right to an appropriate-level education."

-- "...Illegal immigrants, coming from poor countries, have great health care needs. And in addition to common diseases, illegals bring challenges not normally faced in the US, for example, 7,000 new cases of leprosy in the past three years came in from Mexico, India, and Brazil, 16,000 new cases of multiple-drug-resistant, incurable, and communicable(!) tuberculosis. The Centers for Disease Control reports that illegal immigrants account for over 65 percent of communicable diseases (TB, hepatitis, leprosy, AIDS, etc.,) in the US. Immigration officials are supposed to screen out immigrants who are carrying diseases, but there is no health screening for illegal immigrants."

-- "The burden of providing health care to illegals extends beyond disease and saving crime victims. For example, because of illegals' high birthrate, in Colorado, which has a mere (?) 100,000 illegal immigrants, taxpayers in 2003 alone paid for 6,000 illegals to have their babies. That's 40% of the births Medicaid paid for in the state. To get immediate care, the illegal only must say "I am undocumented."

-- "The Washington Times reported that dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California have either closed their doors or face bankruptcy because of losses caused by uncompensated care given to illegal immigrants."

-- "Can we ask legal residents to be honest — for example, to pay their income taxes — while, per the Guest Worker program, we reward lawbreaking illegals with legal status, an array of services for themselves and their families, plus full US citizenship for all subsequent offspring? In officially welcoming millions of acknowledged at-least two-time lawbreakers into the US, we would exacerbate America's already declining honesty."

-- "An article in City Journal reports, "In Los Angeles, up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal immigrants. A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County."

-- "One in seven inmates in California state prisons are illegal immigrants, serving time for crimes other than being in the US illegally. California taxpayers alone spend $500 million a year on incarcerating illegals."

-- "Even an illegal alien who has committed murder rarely gets deported! According to statistics from the former Immigration and Naturalization Service and Immigration and Customs Enforcement, 80,000 illegals who have served prison time for felonies including murder, rape, drug smuggling, and armed robberies, are roaming our streets. This is frightening indeed because, according to Bureau of Justice statistics, within three years of prison release, 62% commit another crime."

-- "Peyton Knight, Director of Legislative Affairs for the American Policy Center, a Virginia think tank, writes, "At a time when America is under attack by Islamist holy warriors, the Census Bureau estimates that as many as 115,000 illegal immigrants from Middle Eastern countries are living in the United States."

-- "According to US Census data, immigrants are 75% more likely to use food stamps, medical benefits, and housing assistance at a cost of $68 billion per year. (Compare this with the estimated $84 billion one-time cost of the war in Iraq.)"

-- "(W)hile American-born workers spend most or all of their earnings here in the US, creating more jobs and in turn, more tax revenues, illegals send much of their earnings back to relatives in their native country. For example, according to a study by the Pew Hispanic Center and Inter-American Development Bank, Latino immigrants in 2002, despite the soft economy, sent a record $23 billion to relatives and others in their home countries."

-- "Co-founder of MALDEF, Mario Obledo, to whom President Clinton awarded the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom, boasted, "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave." He added: "Every constitutional office in California is going to be held by Hispanics in the next 20 years." Jose Pescador Osuna, former Mexican Consul General in Los Angeles, said, "Even though I'm saying this part serious and part joking, I believe we are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California." Past Mexican president Ernesto Zedillo, in 1997, speaking before the national council of La Raza, was not half-joking when he said: "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important - part of this." And Mexico's current president, Vicente Fox has marched La Reconquista forward by having convinced President Bush to provide legal status for millions of illegals."

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One of the main things I disagree with Bush on is his immigration policy.
Based on the above facts, I conclude that illegal immigrants must be dealt with harshly in order to spare America the economic pain of having all these criminals leeching off the benefits meant for her citizens.

Any comments or criticism are welcome.
If you're going to shoot criminals, why specify between legal citizens and illegal ones?

They're both still criminals.

Kaze Drimn's Prince

Lavish Businessman

Duowolf
I propose that any illegal immigrant who is caught commiting a crime or has commited a crime be shot.

This has to be one of the most fundamentally un-American opinions I have seen in a long time. The lack of due process and wanton cruel and unusual punishment that this represents sickens me.

Quote:
Not only will this greatly reduce the crimes performed by illegal immigrants, it will discourage others from trying to illegally cross our borders.

Or we could work on strengthening our borders, like we're supposed to, especially with the whole terror threat. You can posture all you like, make wild, cruel, and xenophobic opinions like this, but the fact of the matter is that the most effective way to keep them out is to just keep them out.

Quote:
In order to further discourage these illegals, all access to health care, education, and other free resources must be denied to them.

And what if they have fake papers and it fools the people managing this? "Whoops, my bad. Now give back all that medicine you've taken and knowledge you've learned?"


Quote:
Therefore it would be very unprofitable for illegals to stay in the US, because they will not have free resources and if they commit a crime, they will be killed.

And it would make us look like a bunch of barbarians in the process. Not that it matters to a dittiot like you, but we're talking trade embargoes among other things in the process.

Quote:
-- "The number of illegal immigrants in the US has more than doubled in the past decade to at least 9,000,000, the population of Massachusetts and Connecticut combined, and the rate is accelerating."

How about we strengthen the borders and hire more people to man the ports and stuff? Or would that just make too much sense?

Quote:
-- "The Center for Immigration Studies has calculated that illegals have already cost American workers $133 billion in salary cuts and job losses. According to a study by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, illegal immigration combined with the rampant offshoring of US jobs promises to significantly shrink the middle and working class, forcing ever more people into poverty."

But it's your buddies, your heroes that are turning the profits.

Quote:
-- "Bush claims that Guest Workers do work that legal Americans won't. If that were true, then in the 35 states with few illegals (87 percent of illegals reside in just 15 states), lawns wouldn't get mowed, hotel rooms wouldn't get cleaned, buildings wouldn't get built, and crops wouldn't get picked. In those states, employers simply have to pay a living wage and provide decent working conditions to get people to do that work."

This is a typical Bush nod to big business, nothing more or nothing less.

Quote:
-- "...US law requires that all illegals receive free public education K-12. The Federation for American Immigration Reform estimates that this costs $7.4 billion dollars each year."

What do you propose we do with the children then? If their parents are working and they're too young to stay home alone, then what?

Quote:
-- "The birthrate among illegals is double that of legal US residents. The Pew Hispanic Center calculates that within seven years, the children of immigrants, legal and illegal, will account for one in nine school-age children in the US. The Urban Institute estimates that already, 15% of all school children in California are illegals, many of whom speak little English. These students are usually mainstreamed in classes with native English speakers. This means that teachers must slow down instruction, denying native English speakers their right to an appropriate-level education."

I don't understand why that can't be fixed with a Spanish-language or ESL teacher.

Quote:
"...Illegal immigrants, coming from poor countries, have great health care needs. And in addition to common diseases, illegals bring challenges not normally faced in the US, for example, 7,000 new cases of leprosy in the past three years came in from Mexico, India, and Brazil, 16,000 new cases of multiple-drug-resistant, incurable, and communicable(!) tuberculosis. The Centers for Disease Control reports that illegal immigrants account for over 65 percent of communicable diseases (TB, hepatitis, leprosy, AIDS, etc.,) in the US. Immigration officials are supposed to screen out immigrants who are carrying diseases, but there is no health screening for illegal immigrants."

Yet you propose denying health care? So you'd take these communicable diseases and let them get worse and spread to everyone just because you hate that your daddy has to spend his hard-earned tax money on those damn illegals. What can we do under your plan, hope they jaywalk so a cop can blow their brains out?

Quote:
"The burden of providing health care to illegals extends beyond disease and saving crime victims. For example, because of illegals' high birthrate, in Colorado, which has a mere (?) 100,000 illegal immigrants, taxpayers in 2003 alone paid for 6,000 illegals to have their babies. That's 40% of the births Medicaid paid for in the state. To get immediate care, the illegal only must say "I am undocumented."

I don't think arranging the deportation papers when a woman's in labor in your lobby is a very humane or ethical thing to do.

Quote:
"The Washington Times reported that dozens of hospitals in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California have either closed their doors or face bankruptcy because of losses caused by uncompensated care given to illegal immigrants."

If this is so, I'd expect the Washington Post or something else to report this.

Quote:
"Can we ask legal residents to be honest — for example, to pay their income taxes — while, per the Guest Worker program, we reward lawbreaking illegals with legal status, an array of services for themselves and their families, plus full US citizenship for all subsequent offspring? In officially welcoming millions of acknowledged at-least two-time lawbreakers into the US, we would exacerbate America's already declining honesty."

So he complains about how America's not honest, then asks if we should cut out all tax fraud as a result of this law? This is pretty hypocritical.

Quote:
"An article in City Journal reports, "In Los Angeles, up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal immigrants. A confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County."

Then take it out on the gang, not the illegals. Just because many have shady dealings doesn't mean they all need to be punished. This isn't that hard to figure out.

Quote:
"One in seven inmates in California state prisons are illegal immigrants, serving time for crimes other than being in the US illegally. California taxpayers alone spend $500 million a year on incarcerating illegals."

And blacks make up over a quarter of the inmates, although they only make up 6% of the population. What's your answer to this?

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/CA_Black.shtml

Quote:
"Peyton Knight, Director of Legislative Affairs for the American Policy Center, a Virginia think tank, writes, "At a time when America is under attack by Islamist holy warriors, the Census Bureau estimates that as many as 115,000 illegal immigrants from Middle Eastern countries are living in the United States."

This is simple fear-mongering, nothing more. For some reason people seem to think in order to get a point across, you have to stand someone from the Mid East next to Ground Zero to do it.

Quote:
"According to US Census data, immigrants are 75% more likely to use food stamps, medical benefits, and housing assistance at a cost of $68 billion per year. (Compare this with the estimated $84 billion one-time cost of the war in Iraq.)"

Here's the difference between the two, one's helping people and one isn't.

Quote:
"(W)hile American-born workers spend most or all of their earnings here in the US, creating more jobs and in turn, more tax revenues, illegals send much of their earnings back to relatives in their native country. For example, according to a study by the Pew Hispanic Center and Inter-American Development Bank, Latino immigrants in 2002, despite the soft economy, sent a record $23 billion to relatives and others in their home countries."

Immigrants have been coming here planning to do that for over a century. This bullshit argument doesn't hold any historical water unless you're making a case for Know-Nothings and nativists.

Quote:
"Co-founder of MALDEF, Mario Obledo, to whom President Clinton awarded the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom, boasted, "California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn't like it should leave." He added: "Every constitutional office in California is going to be held by Hispanics in the next 20 years." Jose Pescador Osuna, former Mexican Consul General in Los Angeles, said, "Even though I'm saying this part serious and part joking, I believe we are practicing 'La Reconquista' in California." Past Mexican president Ernesto Zedillo, in 1997, speaking before the national council of La Raza, was not half-joking when he said: "I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important - part of this." And Mexico's current president, Vicente Fox has marched La Reconquista forward by having convinced President Bush to provide legal status for millions of illegals."

This is purely racist horsecrap right here, it doesn't matter what side it's from. They should not have said that. However, this is meant to incite the fearful whites who don't want to be surrounded by people speaking other languages and having darker skin than theirs. Next time when he makes an argument like this claiming they're trying to re-make California into a part of Mexico, he could quit trying to stoop below them with the racial remarks.

Quote:
One of the main things I disagree with Bush on is his immigration policy.
Based on the above facts, I conclude that illegal immigrants must be dealt with harshly in order to spare America the economic pain of having all these criminals leeching off the benefits meant for her citizens.

So shoot them all is a good answer? Right, that'll keep a lot more things away than immigrants, like money for one and goods for another.
Luther Dark
If you're going to shoot criminals, why specify between legal citizens and illegal ones?

They're both still criminals.

Yeah, but most of the legal ones pay taxes.

Omnipresent Warlord

So instead of stopping the flow of immigrants you kill them once they get here? WHy not focus on making Mexico and other poorer countries better so people have less incentive to leave.
ERRORCode2002 your comments have brought a tear to my eye, beautiful
Denying emergency healthcare to anyone is a bad idea. Any legal Mexican-looking guy who rolls in can have time added to the time until he's treated until they verify he's legal, which could kill him or make his life worse. Just not a good situation to get ourselves in.

And also, you'll notice that illegal immigration is a crime ... .. ... point of irony, not of argument really.

Unfortunately you're probably right that it's the only way to completely stem the illegal immigration, but it's not worth it. We need to tighten our borders though.
Horrible joke I once heard: "See this here gun, boy? I use this to shoot cans. MexicCANs, AfriCANs, Puerto RiCANs..."

More on-topic: While I'm iffy about executing any that commit a crime, I'm definitely against denying them education. Their kids might actually grow up to be productive members of society. Also, if their kids can't go to school, they'll probably end up on the street begging or stealing or selling Chiclets or something.
I have a very simple policy on illegal immigrants. Anyone in this country without due process gets sent back, at their own expense if possible, and is not entitled to things like driver's licenses. Now on emergency medical care, there should be no cost on saving someones life, if an illegal immigrant is hurt they get patched up to the point they can be moved with killing them and then tossed over the border, in this case deposited in a hospital in their native country. If they commit another crime then they are prosecuted the same as anyone and when their punishment is done they get kicked over the border.
Rufas Lance
Yeah, but most of the legal ones pay taxes.


So do illegal immigrants.

Never heard of sales taxes?

Lord Fates
I have a very simple policy on illegal immigrants. Anyone in this country without due process gets sent back, at their own expense if possible, and is not entitled to things like driver's licenses. Now on emergency medical care, there should be no cost on saving someones life, if an illegal immigrant is hurt they get patched up to the point they can be moved with killing them and then tossed over the border, in this case deposited in a hospital in their native country. If they commit another crime then they are prosecuted the same as anyone and when their punishment is done they get kicked over the border.


Hmm. I am surprised; I agree with you.

High-functioning Lunatic

I don't know if anyone else has said this, b/c I'm too tired to read the entire thread, but if you're going to shoot illegal immigrants for commiting a crime, you'd have to shoot them upon entry of the country. Ka-doi.

But anyway, I think that illegal immigrants (Mexicans, Canadians, Frechies, whoever!) should be deported when discovered.
I was going to post a lengthy criticism, but I think ERRORCode2002, has put it wonderfully.

Duowolf, you are either hilariously funny, or dangerously insane. For all our sakes I hope it's the former.
Eerie Deemable
I was going to post a lengthy criticism, but I think ERRORCode2002, has put it wonderfully.

Duowolf, you are either hilariously funny, or dangerously insane. For all our sakes I hope it's the former.


I would have to agree with the points put forth by ERRORCode2002. It saved me the trouble of shooting this user down yet again.

The sad thing is that people with these opinions are no longer regarded as dangerously stupid, which they are. Because of the way the country is leaning politically, this kind of thing becomes trite and common. Duowolf isn't "insane" by American standards at all nowadays. However, if the country would regain much of its lost sensibility, people would realize that Duowolf is nothing more than a neo conservative idiotic nutjob.

Canicuss's Husband

Excitable Gaian

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Quote:
I have a very simple policy on illegal immigrants. Anyone in this country without due process gets sent back, at their own expense if possible, and is not entitled to things like driver's licenses. Now on emergency medical care, there should be no cost on saving someones life, if an illegal immigrant is hurt they get patched up to the point they can be moved with killing them and then tossed over the border, in this case deposited in a hospital in their native country. If they commit another crime then they are prosecuted the same as anyone and when their punishment is done they get kicked over the border.


He's quite right.

Where I live this could be done because legal citiziens have ID cards, (be it national ID or foreigner ID) that are needed in order to get a driver license etc..., but I don't know how would it work in the USA.
Shooting down illegal immigrants?

How dare a proud American like myself suggest even such terrors, we are ALL former immigrants! Every last one of us with the exception of what few native americans are left immigrated here.. Some people dont have the means or the money to come here and we limit the amounts that we let in also, how dare we refuse people the right to move here!

Given the best argument is "They are taking our jobs and filling up our welfare lines" This is also lunacy, if YOU dont work hard enough to keep your job from an illegal immigrant you SHOULD lose it. These people come here looking for a better way of life, for the "American dream" and you suggest shooting them down like rabid dogs?.. Sure the immigrants work more for less, but this isn't their fault its the companies who employ them. Stop talking of punishing illegal immigrants and start speaking of punishing those who employ them for less than is do to them for their hard work!

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