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Kallen-chan's avatar

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Neophenx de Chrysalya

Dude I have a team idea i wanna run past you before i do the breeding and EV training for. Maybe you can give me a hand with sets and stuff.
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Kallen-chan
Neophenx de Chrysalya

Dude I have a team idea i wanna run past you before i do the breeding and EV training for. Maybe you can give me a hand with sets and stuff.
I'm off to T-day lunch but lay it on me and I'll get back to it later!
Kallen-chan's avatar

Dedicated Regular

Neophenx de Chrysalya
Kallen-chan
Neophenx de Chrysalya

Dude I have a team idea i wanna run past you before i do the breeding and EV training for. Maybe you can give me a hand with sets and stuff.
I'm off to T-day lunch but lay it on me and I'll get back to it later!

Once i get a moment to find my notebook where i have it all written down, i'll send it to you on skype. Thanks!
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Maybe you could explain why singles is actually harder than doubles, because I don't see it. And your original statement was that Singles was the ONLY true competition, which is an absolute statement, and absolute statements by nature are either true or false, and the evidence of Singles being TRUE competition goes against all evidence that supports both official competition and the overall design of the game itself. It's fine to say you PREFER a certain format, but when you say it's THE only true format, you deny the reality that the game is designed to be more than what you're claiming it is.

Fine I'll change it to only true gameplay format.

The fact that doubles was an unneeded gimmick does not make it competitive. in fact pokemon is the only game that has a gimmick become competitive. Which again confuses me as to why 3v3 is not the norm for competitive, after all, if your going to run gimmicks you may as well run the newest one.

Yes a GIMMICK, introduced gen 3, and having i think in tital 4 battle that are 2v2, (One one being unavoidable (the gym))
Same with 3v3 in gen 5,

also i am not even sure if gen 4 has a double battle (Well i know they do in HG/SS but i am not sure about D/P/Pt, (Not that it matters, D/P/Pl were all absolute trash of a game.)
You call it a gimmick, but because of full blown changes to battle mechanics and how certain moves and abilities work specifically in formats besides singles, the full design is more than a gimmick. A gimmick is something that doesn't really change the gameplay dynamic, but Double Battles paved the way for whole new forms of strategy, which is a core of Pokemon gameplay. Strategy. If it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have created such a vast difference of how moves and abilities affect the game. If anything, Contests are more of a gimmick than different battle formats, since it doesn't even affect the core strategic formula. Considering you still say Singles is the absolute core of the game, you ignore the game's actual design. I get you don't like other formats, but really you're just being a d**k. The games' themes lately have pretty much been a commentary on the nature of truth and ideals. Right now, you're N, sitting on your ideals without a care for what the world actually is. The truth of the matter is you're just willingly crippling yourself as a team-builder and player. Even if you don't like playing the format, simply understanding the intricacies of them improves your overall skill. But hey, you don't care about that. You just care about shutting out truth for the sake of ideals. See ya later, N! Have a happy thanksgiving!

If it was not a simple gimmick, it would have had more to it in gen 3. You have literally four aspects of battle for doubles in gen 3. Plus, Minus lightning rod and helping hand, that's it. Pichu wannabees and the love bugs were designed for doubles as well. Shitty stats but to add to the gimmick. there has been no introduction of new "Couples" pokemon since. Even with 3v3 there were no "triples" pokemon introduced.


Now since then there have been a few new abilities introduced for multi battles Such as Storm drain, Friend guard, Telepathy, (Making a total fo 6 abilities designed for doubles, where as we have 192 unique ablities... wow didn;t even know how many we had, interesting.)

As for moves, i know we have a couple more moves created but alas everything done for these was strictly for the gimmick. and since you can avoid most double and triple battles in game anyway. It is still a gimmick.


Also i still fail to see how double battles is so tough? Why not just stack up a group full of no guard pokes, Get a max speed with 252 ev Choice scarfed Croganol with sheer cold. Boom, he is probably not going to be outsped, and thanks to no guard you are not missing, It kills your ally, but also both opponents. You bring out your next no guard pokemon, and repeat.
Turn 3 (Possibly 4) your have killed them all, those with sturdy are the only issue, (and one you bring them all down to 1 HP, set up hail. Or since you only need 3 no guard pokes, you have 2 more guys who can clean up the sturdies.

real hard startegy...
Neophenx de Chrysalya's avatar

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Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Maybe you could explain why singles is actually harder than doubles, because I don't see it. And your original statement was that Singles was the ONLY true competition, which is an absolute statement, and absolute statements by nature are either true or false, and the evidence of Singles being TRUE competition goes against all evidence that supports both official competition and the overall design of the game itself. It's fine to say you PREFER a certain format, but when you say it's THE only true format, you deny the reality that the game is designed to be more than what you're claiming it is.

Fine I'll change it to only true gameplay format.

The fact that doubles was an unneeded gimmick does not make it competitive. in fact pokemon is the only game that has a gimmick become competitive. Which again confuses me as to why 3v3 is not the norm for competitive, after all, if your going to run gimmicks you may as well run the newest one.

Yes a GIMMICK, introduced gen 3, and having i think in tital 4 battle that are 2v2, (One one being unavoidable (the gym))
Same with 3v3 in gen 5,

also i am not even sure if gen 4 has a double battle (Well i know they do in HG/SS but i am not sure about D/P/Pt, (Not that it matters, D/P/Pl were all absolute trash of a game.)
You call it a gimmick, but because of full blown changes to battle mechanics and how certain moves and abilities work specifically in formats besides singles, the full design is more than a gimmick. A gimmick is something that doesn't really change the gameplay dynamic, but Double Battles paved the way for whole new forms of strategy, which is a core of Pokemon gameplay. Strategy. If it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have created such a vast difference of how moves and abilities affect the game. If anything, Contests are more of a gimmick than different battle formats, since it doesn't even affect the core strategic formula. Considering you still say Singles is the absolute core of the game, you ignore the game's actual design. I get you don't like other formats, but really you're just being a d**k. The games' themes lately have pretty much been a commentary on the nature of truth and ideals. Right now, you're N, sitting on your ideals without a care for what the world actually is. The truth of the matter is you're just willingly crippling yourself as a team-builder and player. Even if you don't like playing the format, simply understanding the intricacies of them improves your overall skill. But hey, you don't care about that. You just care about shutting out truth for the sake of ideals. See ya later, N! Have a happy thanksgiving!

If it was not a simple gimmick, it would have had more to it in gen 3. You have literally four aspects of battle for doubles in gen 3. Plus, Minus lightning rod and helping hand, that's it. Pichu wannabees and the love bugs were designed for doubles as well. Shitty stats but to add to the gimmick. there has been no introduction of new "Couples" pokemon since. Even with 3v3 there were no "triples" pokemon introduced.


Now since then there have been a few new abilities introduced for multi battles Such as Storm drain, Friend guard, Telepathy, (Making a total fo 6 abilities designed for doubles, where as we have 192 unique ablities... wow didn;t even know how many we had, interesting.)

As for moves, i know we have a couple more moves created but alas everything done for these was strictly for the gimmick. and since you can avoid most double and triple battles in game anyway. It is still a gimmick.


Also i still fail to see how double battles is so tough? Why not just stack up a group full of no guard pokes, Get a max speed with 252 ev Choice scarfed Croganol with sheer cold. Boom, he is probably not going to be outsped, and thanks to no guard you are not missing, It kills your ally, but also both opponents. You bring out your next no guard pokemon, and repeat.
Turn 3 (Possibly 4) your have killed them all, those with sturdy are the only issue, (and one you bring them all down to 1 HP, set up hail. Or since you only need 3 no guard pokes, you have 2 more guys who can clean up the sturdies.

real hard startegy...
If it's so easy, why has nobody won Worlds with your No-Guard partner+Sheer Cold strategy? Probably because No Guard doesn't work the way you think it does.

No Guard affects the user, and those who target the user. Not the partner in a Double Battle. Of course, if you weren't so closed-minded and examined the strategies in depth, you'd have known that.

Even if specific abilities and moves designed for doubles are few, how a player uses them with the moves that is the real challenge. Of course, if you actually tried entering any official event and stepped out of your little comfort zone, you might see it. But as long as you're stuck in your singular thinking (pun intended), you'll never see it. I find it interesting though you've written it off so completely and called it lax and easy, but claimed so without even being a national or world champ. If it's so easy, what's stopping you?
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Maybe you could explain why singles is actually harder than doubles, because I don't see it. And your original statement was that Singles was the ONLY true competition, which is an absolute statement, and absolute statements by nature are either true or false, and the evidence of Singles being TRUE competition goes against all evidence that supports both official competition and the overall design of the game itself. It's fine to say you PREFER a certain format, but when you say it's THE only true format, you deny the reality that the game is designed to be more than what you're claiming it is.

Fine I'll change it to only true gameplay format.

The fact that doubles was an unneeded gimmick does not make it competitive. in fact pokemon is the only game that has a gimmick become competitive. Which again confuses me as to why 3v3 is not the norm for competitive, after all, if your going to run gimmicks you may as well run the newest one.

Yes a GIMMICK, introduced gen 3, and having i think in tital 4 battle that are 2v2, (One one being unavoidable (the gym))
Same with 3v3 in gen 5,

also i am not even sure if gen 4 has a double battle (Well i know they do in HG/SS but i am not sure about D/P/Pt, (Not that it matters, D/P/Pl were all absolute trash of a game.)
You call it a gimmick, but because of full blown changes to battle mechanics and how certain moves and abilities work specifically in formats besides singles, the full design is more than a gimmick. A gimmick is something that doesn't really change the gameplay dynamic, but Double Battles paved the way for whole new forms of strategy, which is a core of Pokemon gameplay. Strategy. If it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have created such a vast difference of how moves and abilities affect the game. If anything, Contests are more of a gimmick than different battle formats, since it doesn't even affect the core strategic formula. Considering you still say Singles is the absolute core of the game, you ignore the game's actual design. I get you don't like other formats, but really you're just being a d**k. The games' themes lately have pretty much been a commentary on the nature of truth and ideals. Right now, you're N, sitting on your ideals without a care for what the world actually is. The truth of the matter is you're just willingly crippling yourself as a team-builder and player. Even if you don't like playing the format, simply understanding the intricacies of them improves your overall skill. But hey, you don't care about that. You just care about shutting out truth for the sake of ideals. See ya later, N! Have a happy thanksgiving!

If it was not a simple gimmick, it would have had more to it in gen 3. You have literally four aspects of battle for doubles in gen 3. Plus, Minus lightning rod and helping hand, that's it. Pichu wannabees and the love bugs were designed for doubles as well. Shitty stats but to add to the gimmick. there has been no introduction of new "Couples" pokemon since. Even with 3v3 there were no "triples" pokemon introduced.


Now since then there have been a few new abilities introduced for multi battles Such as Storm drain, Friend guard, Telepathy, (Making a total fo 6 abilities designed for doubles, where as we have 192 unique ablities... wow didn;t even know how many we had, interesting.)

As for moves, i know we have a couple more moves created but alas everything done for these was strictly for the gimmick. and since you can avoid most double and triple battles in game anyway. It is still a gimmick.


Also i still fail to see how double battles is so tough? Why not just stack up a group full of no guard pokes, Get a max speed with 252 ev Choice scarfed Croganol with sheer cold. Boom, he is probably not going to be outsped, and thanks to no guard you are not missing, It kills your ally, but also both opponents. You bring out your next no guard pokemon, and repeat.
Turn 3 (Possibly 4) your have killed them all, those with sturdy are the only issue, (and one you bring them all down to 1 HP, set up hail. Or since you only need 3 no guard pokes, you have 2 more guys who can clean up the sturdies.

real hard startegy...
If it's so easy, why has nobody won Worlds with your No-Guard partner+Sheer Cold strategy? Probably because No Guard doesn't work the way you think it does.

No Guard affects the user, and those who target the user. Not the partner in a Double Battle. Of course, if you weren't so closed-minded and examined the strategies in depth, you'd have known that.

Even if specific abilities and moves designed for doubles are few, how a player uses them with the moves that is the real challenge. Of course, if you actually tried entering any official event and stepped out of your little comfort zone, you might see it. But as long as you're stuck in your singular thinking (pun intended), you'll never see it. I find it interesting though you've written it off so completely and called it lax and easy, but claimed so without even being a national or world champ. If it's so easy, what's stopping you?

well mega pidgeot, who also has no guard can learn mimic, so similar strategy would work. No scarf so speed can be beaten (Even if 121 is amazing)

still go with a sheer cold user and mimic its sheer cold, you now have 5 uses of a no guard sheer cold.

Also unless sheer cold only hits one pokemon (but from what i read it hits all adjacent pokemon) it would still work, since your no guard guy is being hit. thus it would still succeed since he makes sure it hits him and thus hits everyone.
Neophenx de Chrysalya's avatar

Dangerous Raider

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Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
Rockwarrior v2.0

Fine I'll change it to only true gameplay format.

The fact that doubles was an unneeded gimmick does not make it competitive. in fact pokemon is the only game that has a gimmick become competitive. Which again confuses me as to why 3v3 is not the norm for competitive, after all, if your going to run gimmicks you may as well run the newest one.

Yes a GIMMICK, introduced gen 3, and having i think in tital 4 battle that are 2v2, (One one being unavoidable (the gym))
Same with 3v3 in gen 5,

also i am not even sure if gen 4 has a double battle (Well i know they do in HG/SS but i am not sure about D/P/Pt, (Not that it matters, D/P/Pl were all absolute trash of a game.)
You call it a gimmick, but because of full blown changes to battle mechanics and how certain moves and abilities work specifically in formats besides singles, the full design is more than a gimmick. A gimmick is something that doesn't really change the gameplay dynamic, but Double Battles paved the way for whole new forms of strategy, which is a core of Pokemon gameplay. Strategy. If it was a gimmick, it wouldn't have created such a vast difference of how moves and abilities affect the game. If anything, Contests are more of a gimmick than different battle formats, since it doesn't even affect the core strategic formula. Considering you still say Singles is the absolute core of the game, you ignore the game's actual design. I get you don't like other formats, but really you're just being a d**k. The games' themes lately have pretty much been a commentary on the nature of truth and ideals. Right now, you're N, sitting on your ideals without a care for what the world actually is. The truth of the matter is you're just willingly crippling yourself as a team-builder and player. Even if you don't like playing the format, simply understanding the intricacies of them improves your overall skill. But hey, you don't care about that. You just care about shutting out truth for the sake of ideals. See ya later, N! Have a happy thanksgiving!

If it was not a simple gimmick, it would have had more to it in gen 3. You have literally four aspects of battle for doubles in gen 3. Plus, Minus lightning rod and helping hand, that's it. Pichu wannabees and the love bugs were designed for doubles as well. Shitty stats but to add to the gimmick. there has been no introduction of new "Couples" pokemon since. Even with 3v3 there were no "triples" pokemon introduced.


Now since then there have been a few new abilities introduced for multi battles Such as Storm drain, Friend guard, Telepathy, (Making a total fo 6 abilities designed for doubles, where as we have 192 unique ablities... wow didn;t even know how many we had, interesting.)

As for moves, i know we have a couple more moves created but alas everything done for these was strictly for the gimmick. and since you can avoid most double and triple battles in game anyway. It is still a gimmick.


Also i still fail to see how double battles is so tough? Why not just stack up a group full of no guard pokes, Get a max speed with 252 ev Choice scarfed Croganol with sheer cold. Boom, he is probably not going to be outsped, and thanks to no guard you are not missing, It kills your ally, but also both opponents. You bring out your next no guard pokemon, and repeat.
Turn 3 (Possibly 4) your have killed them all, those with sturdy are the only issue, (and one you bring them all down to 1 HP, set up hail. Or since you only need 3 no guard pokes, you have 2 more guys who can clean up the sturdies.

real hard startegy...
If it's so easy, why has nobody won Worlds with your No-Guard partner+Sheer Cold strategy? Probably because No Guard doesn't work the way you think it does.

No Guard affects the user, and those who target the user. Not the partner in a Double Battle. Of course, if you weren't so closed-minded and examined the strategies in depth, you'd have known that.

Even if specific abilities and moves designed for doubles are few, how a player uses them with the moves that is the real challenge. Of course, if you actually tried entering any official event and stepped out of your little comfort zone, you might see it. But as long as you're stuck in your singular thinking (pun intended), you'll never see it. I find it interesting though you've written it off so completely and called it lax and easy, but claimed so without even being a national or world champ. If it's so easy, what's stopping you?

well mega pidgeot, who also has no guard can learn mimic, so similar strategy would work. No scarf so speed can be beaten (Even if 121 is amazing)

still go with a sheer cold user and mimic its sheer cold, you now have 5 uses of a no guard sheer cold.

Also unless sheer cold only hits one pokemon (but from what i read it hits all adjacent pokemon) it would still work, since your no guard guy is being hit. thus it would still succeed since he makes sure it hits him and thus hits everyone.
Sheer Cold hits one selected target.
What's more, Mega-Pidgeot isn't that bulky. As common as Fake Out is in matches, IF a Sheer Cold Pidgeot combo becomes popular, everyone will quickly learn how to play against it. That's how real competition works. Things start to work well, then everyone knows how to play against it.

When X and Y VGC started taking off, Kangaskhan was the obvious mega-choice, complimented by other primary physical attackers like Garchomp. Players got smart and loaded up on Rotom with access to Will-o-Wisp, while still capable of taking hits from either of those primary threats. Intimidate became popular as well, causing some people to counter with Bisharp or Wigglytuff.

With Pidgeot, it's even harder to set up. You need a Sheer Cold user who could easily be KO'd with Stone Edge or Iron Head (or maybe the new Mega-Metagross Bullet Punch), or hit with Fake Out to stop the setup altogether (yes, Fake Out is VERY popular in the VGC game). Then you're wasting a whole turn on a 30% accuracy move, and using Pidgeot to copy the move. That's a whole opening turn of doing potentially nothing, assuming you're not hit with the afforementioned Fake Out causing the entire setup to fail off the bat. If Sheer-Cold Pidgeot combo DOES actually succeed, it's not going to be against any skilled player who knows how competition works. Setup-heavy strategies just don't work so well in doubles, especially Flat Rule doubles, and if you're talking best-of-3 matches (again, primary official competition format), it's not going to work more than once.

EDIT: Another issue: Mimic is a Transfer Only move. In order to be valid for official events, a Pokemon needs to be caught or hatched in the 6th generation, barring Transfer Only moves. So, Mimic Pidgeot isn't even possible in VGC.
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

Neophenx de Chrysalya
In order to be valid for official events, a Pokemon needs to be caught or hatched in the 6th generation.

and like that my interest to play in sanctioned Pokemon events is back to zero.
Kallen-chan's avatar

Dedicated Regular

Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
In order to be valid for official events, a Pokemon needs to be caught or hatched in the 6th generation.

and like that my interest to play in sanctioned Pokemon events is back to zero.

Dude, breeding this gen is EASY. And so is EV training. So breeding up pokemon for this kind of stuff isn't hard.
Rockwarrior v2.0's avatar

Dangerous Player

Kallen-chan
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
In order to be valid for official events, a Pokemon needs to be caught or hatched in the 6th generation.

and like that my interest to play in sanctioned Pokemon events is back to zero.

Dude, breeding this gen is EASY. And so is EV training. So breeding up pokemon for this kind of stuff isn't hard.

Maybe for you, i am still waiting for someone to catch me a damn protean greninja from my friend safari. I can't access it.
Kallen-chan's avatar

Dedicated Regular

Rockwarrior v2.0
Kallen-chan
Rockwarrior v2.0
Neophenx de Chrysalya
In order to be valid for official events, a Pokemon needs to be caught or hatched in the 6th generation.

and like that my interest to play in sanctioned Pokemon events is back to zero.

Dude, breeding this gen is EASY. And so is EV training. So breeding up pokemon for this kind of stuff isn't hard.

Maybe for you, i am still waiting for someone to catch me a damn protean greninja from my friend safari. I can't access it.

You do realize this is the first gen where i have IV bred for anything and have been able to EV train right?

And you could just ask around the forums for a protean Froakie if you're that in need of one.

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