Snakes -- Information & Appreciation

How many snakes do you own?

None :<	51.0%	[ 227 ]
One! :3	14.6%	[ 65 ]
Two! :D	9.7%	[ 43 ]
Three! :O	8.3%	[ 37 ]
EVEN MOAR! >:D	16.4%	[ 73 ]
Total Votes:			[ 445 ]

[Shanna66]

Scarbi

Shanna66

Scarbi

Shanna66

love this thread. i need to take some more recent pictures of my girl. i have some but they are all indoor pictures and dont show off her pretty patterns that well.

and ill always have a thing for the normals but i think ill be getting an ivory in a few years

also i keep my girl in a storage bin but its not nearly as small at alot of large scale breeders use. her bin is the size of a 40gal and even then i plan on upgrading her sometime since she has grown a fondness for stretching out

Definitely would love to see some pics. heart Ivories are very pretty snakes. I think my favorite right now is the Ultramel though. It's pretty new, but has gorgeous rich colors. Now if only they weren't $8,000 a pop.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk/attachments/ball-python-morph-photo-id-gallery/9416d1275825286-ultramel-4-small.jpg

leucistics are my favorite morph but they are so expensived, an ivory is a close second imo

and wow that morph is pretty. it looks like a little caramel candy lol

Yes, ivories are the poor man's blue-eyed lucy, lol. rofl Leucistics are very pretty. I almost got into breeding them, but decided to work with spider morphs instead. Maybe someday I'll get a nice Mojave/Lesser pair.

spiders are really pretty

[Vicky Chai Tea]

Scarbi

Vicky Chai Tea

Love it! All of the care info is spot on.

I do have a few things to add, though. I think you should stress the importance of feeding prekilled foods more, and add in there someplace to only house them individually along with a list of dangers related to being housed together. (cannibalism, stress, illness, unwanted breeding, etc)

The thread also makes it seem like ball pythons are very likely to only want live, which is untrue. It makes people think "Oh, he refused frozen. Must mean he won't take it oh well here's a live one." you know? Feeding live should only be done after every other option has been explored, and every method of getting them to eat has been tried. It IS very important that they be on f/t or freshly killed foods. First of all it drastically reduces the risk of food born illnesses like bacteria or parasites. Second, it's much more convenient since you can stock up on frozen foods, and don't have to sit there and watch until the snake has killed it's food. Third, it is INHUMANE if all other options have NOT been exhausted. It IS painful for the rodent. This is pain that can USUALLY be avoided with diligence. Of course the well being of the snake comes first so if the snake truly does not accept dead then live must be used but that is not as common as this thread makes it seem. You should never starve your snake or anything like that, only keep their best interests and the interests of the feeder in mind, as a compassionate human being.

Just because an animal is a feeder does not mean it should be neglected or abused, keep that in mind. smile If you can avoid causing harm to something, you probably should.

At one point it says to NOT force feed your snake. Sometimes this is the only way to get a snake to start eating, and when done by a professional is perfectly acceptable. It's also an important option to have if a snake is starving to death and does not have the energy to eat. It should ONLY be done by someone with experience and ONLY as a very last resort, though.

Well, the thing about feeding prekilled is that it's a subject that has been debated for years and years. Most of the professional breeders I know will only feed live, because they simply have too many snakes to have the time to coax each one to take a prekilled rodent.

Another argument against prekilled is that unless it's freshly killed, there is loss of nutrients from freezing, as well as a greater risk of bacteria from the corpse of the thawing animal. A live, healthy captive bred rodent has very little risk of transferring bacteria or parasites to a snake.

I will definitely correct the impression that most ball pythons will only eat live, as that isn't the impression I'm trying to give.

I do not believe that force feeding should be used before feeding live, simply because most ball python owners do NOT know how to do it, and because I believe that feeding live is always preferable to force feeding. I am of the personal belief that unless a snake is very, very sick, you should avoid force feeding at all costs, which is why I tried to minimize it.

I raise my own rats for feeding, and I definitely agree that they should be treated humanely. All of mine are treated like pets, since they ARE pets until they are fed. That is also why I only linked the c02 euthanization method, as other methods have been deemed inhumane.

Oh absolutely live should be tried before force feeding. That's not what I meant at all lol. I just mean that it's not totally 100% out of the question is all. I know of several corn snake breeders who got their snakes eating on their own after MONTHS of force feeding. The snakes grew up fine and healthy as well as eating on their own.

True, some nutrition is lost after freezing but there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that enough is lost to cause malnourishment in any way. I would think that of the thousands and thousands of breeders across the US who own thousands of snakes each, feeding all f/t, that there would be several reports of malnourishment. I have never heard of any and if you ask around I'm willing to bet you wouldn't hear of any either. So unless proven otherwise, the facts show that it is a perfectly healthy diet for them.

And these professionals you're talking about should realize that the amount of time they would spend coaxing each snake to eat f/t should be about the same amount of time they're spending waiting until each snake has constricted and killed it's prey. If they're doing that at all. If they're not then that's extremely irresponsible and I wouldn't consider them professional.

Scarbi

7 - What I have read/heard indicates that rats are more nutritionally complete than mice..

Incorrect, rats are higher in fat than mice. This is a plus if you are raising larger snakes like boas and pythons, but can easily lead to obesity in rat snakes and other colubrids.

[Scarbi]

I swear, Alice (my albino) wants to eat EVERY DAY. I'm happy because that means she'll be ready for breeding sooner, but she's gonna get fat unless I start taking her out for exercise every day. rofl

[Scarbi]

Vicky Chai Tea

Oh absolutely live should be tried before force feeding. That's not what I meant at all lol. I just mean that it's not totally 100% out of the question is all. I know of several corn snake breeders who got their snakes eating on their own after MONTHS of force feeding. The snakes grew up fine and healthy as well as eating on their own.

Well, there is a good section about force feeding, it's just kind of at the end. I could always put it in its own little section though, to help it stand out. I'll think about that.

Quote:

True, some nutrition is lost after freezing but there is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that enough is lost to cause malnourishment in any way. I would think that of the thousands and thousands of breeders across the US who own thousands of snakes each, feeding all f/t, that there would be several reports of malnourishment. I have never heard of any and if you ask around I'm willing to bet you wouldn't hear of any either. So unless proven otherwise, the facts show that it is a perfectly healthy diet for them.

I'm not saying that eating frozen/thawed would cause malnourishment, simply that it doesn't contain AS MUCH nutrients as rodents that have not been frozen. Kind of like how certain brands of cat food don't cause malnourishment, but other brands are BETTER for your cat.

Quote:

And these professionals you're talking about should realize that the amount of time they would spend coaxing each snake to eat f/t should be about the same amount of time they're spending waiting until each snake has constricted and killed it's prey. If they're doing that at all. If they're not then that's extremely irresponsible and I wouldn't consider them professional.

Frankly the couple who runs The Snake Keeper are two of the most successful people in the ball python industry. I've witnessed their feeding routine, and it made a lot of sense to me. You really don't have to wait beyond seeing the snake grab the prey, because it's extremely unlikely that a rodent could escape from that kind of grip. The care they provide their ball pythons and emerald tree boas with is excellent. Also with f/t you have to wait for the rodents to thaw as well before feeding.

Quote:

Incorrect, rats are higher in fat than mice. This is a plus if you are raising larger snakes like boas and pythons, but can easily lead to obesity in rat snakes and other colubrids.

No offense, but this thread IS about ball pythons, not snakes in general. smile The advice and information I give pertains solely to ball pythons.

[Vicky Chai Tea]

Scarbi

Frankly the couple who runs The Snake Keeper are two of the most successful people in the ball python industry. I've witnessed their feeding routine, and it made a lot of sense to me. You really don't have to wait beyond seeing the snake grab the prey, because it's extremely unlikely that a rodent could escape from that kind of grip. The care they provide their ball pythons and emerald tree boas with is excellent. Also with f/t you have to wait for the rodents to thaw as well before feeding.



No offense, but this thread IS about ball pythons, not snakes in general. smile The advice and information I give pertains solely to ball pythons.

Well, that's good that they wait until it's been constricted. Still, I choose the safety of my snakes and the treatment of feeder animals before convenience. Even if it became very inconvenient, people should do what is best for their pets and do as much as they can to prevent the suffering of other animals. There are plenty of people out there with huge collections who feed f/t. It's all about how much you care about the well being of the snakes and the pain inflicted on the feeders, which they obviously don't care about enough to take some extra steps.

Also, ah, I see! I thought you meant rats were better for snakes in general. smile But I see I was wrong.

[Scarbi]

Trying to sell Jasper and Douser off before moving. I hate to see 'em go, but I don't really have plans for a Yellowbelly, and while Douser could be useful, I don't really NEED her for my projects either. I'd love to get an Albino male, or save up some more for the Pastel Lesser male that I want.

[Odd_Sins]

o wow i like snakes but em u used 2 hav pet bunnyz n stuff n they died n um a snake lives longer n mom wuld kik meh a** if i had a snake on the losse in the house n dont u gt snakes at ur local pe store????? idk cuz i saw a pharrett at meh pet store n i think if they hav dat they should hav a snake

[Odd_Sins]

if i had to choose between a dog or a snake i wuld choose da dog cuz i would hav the fear of the snake biting meh but also u can alwayz get them de fanged but i feel like datz takin away their pride n joy n also they r a lot of work cuz u need the bio area n da big light for the heat n u ned 2 buy the dead rats or grass hopperz n stuff but with a dog u get a dogy bed leash dog food feed em play wid em n ur done well sure dogz bite alzo but itz not poisunus n u wount die in da 2 hourse but i could also get a non poisunus snake....hmmmmm.... na too much work

[Odd_Sins]

hmmmm na still 2 much work

[Scarbi]

I might have a buyer for Jasper. heart

And Max is creeping around in his cage like a dork. He thinks I'm going to feed him every single day. Silly corn snake. burning_eyes

[Scarbi]

trouble spice not nice

o wow i like snakes but em u used 2 hav pet bunnyz n stuff n they died n um a snake lives longer n mom wuld kik meh a** if i had a snake on the losse in the house n dont u gt snakes at ur local pe store????? idk cuz i saw a pharrett at meh pet store n i think if they hav dat they should hav a snake

Yes, some pet stores have snakes, but it's better to get snakes from people who breed them, because the pet stores don't usually take very good care of the snakes.

[Coffee Succubus]

Very nice ball python thread!

The general care and everything is spot on. I used to long term snake sit my Aunts ball pythons over the course of years when I was younger(6 months at a time, they may as well have been mine!).

I am not very interested to own ball pythons because they ARE a pain in the butt when they go off-feed and I prefer a little more active snakes. Plus they look like little sausages.
xd

I do, however, admire Blue Eye'd Lucys, Potions, and that cream sickle looking morph on the front page!

I will admit that I considered shelling out 1k for a BE Lucy when I met Eugene Bessette at his facility in FL and was privileged to see and meet his animals.

Great thread idea, by the way! I might have to set up one for Boa constrictors! surprised Though that would take FOREVER unless I just did Colombian BCI + morphs and cut locality(BCO, BCC, BCL, BCA). Since you know, they have different required care.

Here is my scaly baby, Tristin, an albino bci produced by Sharon Moore.



Not the best pictures, but most recent!



He's about 4ft now and still growing. I love him so much!


Hope to talk to you soon.
I love making new herp buddies.
heart

[Scarbi]

Coffee Succubus

Very nice ball python thread!

The general care and everything is spot on. I used to long term snake sit my Aunts ball pythons over the course of years when I was younger(6 months at a time, they may as well have been mine!).

I am not very interested to own ball pythons because they ARE a pain in the butt when they go off-feed and I prefer a little more active snakes. Plus they look like little sausages.
xd

I do, however, admire Blue Eye'd Lucys, Potions, and that cream sickle looking morph on the front page!

I will admit that I considered shelling out 1k for a BE Lucy when I met Eugene Bessette at his facility in FL and was privileged to see and meet his animals.

Great thread idea, by the way! I might have to set up one for Boa constrictors! surprised Though that would take FOREVER unless I just did Colombian BCI + morphs and cut locality(BCO, BCC, BCL, BCA). Since you know, they have different required care.

Here is my scaly baby, Tristin, an albino bci produced by Sharon Moore.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/Mitsu_to_tsuba/Tristin/IMG_2571.jpg

Not the best pictures, but most recent!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a326/Mitsu_to_tsuba/Tristin/IMG_2572.jpg

He's about 4ft now and still growing. I love him so much!


Hope to talk to you soon.
I love making new herp buddies.
heart

Aw, but I love my little sausage snakes. xd

Tristin is so beautiful! I have to admit I have a weakness for albino snakes, regardless of the species. I've been really interested in getting a boa constrictor, but I haven't brought it up to my husband because he's already a bit overwhelmed at the number of animals I have. rofl I'm especially partial to sunglow jungle boas, but I also want to get a brazilian rainbow boa someday.

I love making herp buddies too, and it's great to meet you. biggrin You should definitely make a boa thread.

[Scarbi]

While I was looking at pictures, I accidentally found this awesome mouse pad. I love the illustration on it!

http://www.zazzle.com/sunglow_bci_mousepad-144539941119311480

[99_Musical Soul_99]

why are they called BALLED PYTHONS????? confused