Rats?

[V0kinN0ed]

Savage Destiny

ApolloRouge

A mother rat protecing its young is not a nasty rat. A nasty rat bites without provoking. And messing with ones young is considered provoking. I'm not the one full of s**t.

I have never read on an informative site, breeder site or article that says to stop breeding due to maternal instincts...aggression... What ever you want to call it.

And you really don't need to handle young for too long or if at all the first week of life. And handling during that period doesnt mean they will be easier to handle. Their social window is open as soon as their eyes are open.

But you know, I don't know s**t. At least I know the difference in maternal behaviors and real aggression.

Just because you've never read an article, that doesn't mean people don't do it. Mind boggling, eh? It is completely 100% possible to breed rats who don't have maternal aggression by not breeding the ones that do and breeding the ones who don't. It's really that simple.

As I said, if you personally wanting to deal with getting bitten when your females have a litter, fine. But trying to call someone a novice or uneducated because they don't want to deal with that behavior is rude and ignorant.

Just because the rat doesn't bite you doesn't mean you've bred rats with no maternal aggression. It just means you breed trusting rats. All rats have a degree of maternal behaviors regardless to how it is bred. Don't believe me? Let a stranger stick its hand in the cage with a mother rat and its young.

[SmoothSavage]

ApolloRouge

Savage Destiny

ApolloRouge

A mother rat protecing its young is not a nasty rat. A nasty rat bites without provoking. And messing with ones young is considered provoking. I'm not the one full of s**t.

I have never read on an informative site, breeder site or article that says to stop breeding due to maternal instincts...aggression... What ever you want to call it.

And you really don't need to handle young for too long or if at all the first week of life. And handling during that period doesnt mean they will be easier to handle. Their social window is open as soon as their eyes are open.

But you know, I don't know s**t. At least I know the difference in maternal behaviors and real aggression.

Just because you've never read an article, that doesn't mean people don't do it. Mind boggling, eh? It is completely 100% possible to breed rats who don't have maternal aggression by not breeding the ones that do and breeding the ones who don't. It's really that simple.

As I said, if you personally wanting to deal with getting bitten when your females have a litter, fine. But trying to call someone a novice or uneducated because they don't want to deal with that behavior is rude and ignorant.

Just because the rat doesn't bite you doesn't mean you've bred rats with no maternal aggression. It just means you breed trusting rats. All rats have a degree of maternal behaviors regardless to how it is bred. Don't believe me? Let a stranger stick its hand in the cage with a mother rat and its young.

Well, congratulations on proving that you didn't read my posts at all! Either that, or you have absolutely astoundingly poor reading comprehension. Here, I'll quote myself from my original post in the thread:

Quote:

I know someone who breeds feeder rats, and her females are so friendly I can reach in and mess with their babies from day one, even though I'm a relative stranger. The most they do is nudge my hand out of the way.

Wanna try again?

[Latrans]

Why... would it matter?

Don't people breed rats with different goals in mind? There's no hivemind for breeding rats, right?

I wouldn't want natural rats--I'd want placid domesticated ones that never bit me. That's what I'd breed for.

[V0kinN0ed]

Savage Destiny

ApolloRouge

Savage Destiny

ApolloRouge

A mother rat protecing its young is not a nasty rat. A nasty rat bites without provoking. And messing with ones young is considered provoking. I'm not the one full of s**t.

I have never read on an informative site, breeder site or article that says to stop breeding due to maternal instincts...aggression... What ever you want to call it.

And you really don't need to handle young for too long or if at all the first week of life. And handling during that period doesnt mean they will be easier to handle. Their social window is open as soon as their eyes are open.

But you know, I don't know s**t. At least I know the difference in maternal behaviors and real aggression.

Just because you've never read an article, that doesn't mean people don't do it. Mind boggling, eh? It is completely 100% possible to breed rats who don't have maternal aggression by not breeding the ones that do and breeding the ones who don't. It's really that simple.

As I said, if you personally wanting to deal with getting bitten when your females have a litter, fine. But trying to call someone a novice or uneducated because they don't want to deal with that behavior is rude and ignorant.

Just because the rat doesn't bite you doesn't mean you've bred rats with no maternal aggression. It just means you breed trusting rats. All rats have a degree of maternal behaviors regardless to how it is bred. Don't believe me? Let a stranger stick its hand in the cage with a mother rat and its young.

Well, congratulations on proving that you didn't read my posts at all! Either that, or you have absolutely astoundingly poor reading comprehension. Here, I'll quote myself from my original post in the thread:

Quote:

I know someone who breeds feeder rats, and her females are so friendly I can reach in and mess with their babies from day one, even though I'm a relative stranger. The most they do is nudge my hand out of the way.

Wanna try again?

I missed that part. And using my phone to reply has been a pain and makes my replies really limited.

And again; trusting rats. And I'm sure these rats are less of a stranger to you then you think.

Do you actually breed rats?

[SmoothSavage]

ApolloRouge

I missed that part. And using my phone to reply has been a pain and makes my replies really limited.

And again; trusting rats. And I'm sure these rats are less of a stranger to you then you think.

Do you actually breed rats?

I used to own rats but never bred them.

As for my friend's, they really don't know me. I walk past their cage once a week or so, that's about it. However I can and have reached in and checked on the babies of various females with litters.

If you don't want to cull for maternal aggression, that is fine. But don't talk down to someone who does something you don't, because again that is just rude and uncalled for.

[[Kat.On.A.Stick]]

Latrans

Why... would it matter?

Don't people breed rats with different goals in mind? There's no hivemind for breeding rats, right?

I wouldn't want natural rats--I'd want placid domesticated ones that never bit me. That's what I'd breed for.

Op asked for advice on rat breeding, I don't want her to think it's okay to breed rats that bite.
Honestly, I don't care what this other person does, they seem to like getting bit, good for them.

I'd rather help the op breed rats she enjoys keeping, rather than rats she doesn't like because they bite.

[Shanna66]

Latrans

Why... would it matter?

Don't people breed rats with different goals in mind? There's no hivemind for breeding rats, right?

I wouldn't want natural rats--I'd want placid domesticated ones that never bit me. That's what I'd breed for.

trust me, best not to get in the middle of people arguing when it comes to how to breed or what to breed for when it comes to rats.

all rat breeders are crazy, even you kat! smile

but i agree with you, latrans. if i ever got into breeding rats or any mammal feeder i would want lazy little jellybeans

[[Kat.On.A.Stick]]

Shanna66

all rat breeders are crazy, even you kat! smile

Lol I can agree with you there, there's several levels of crazyness and all of us fit in somewhere :p

[V0kinN0ed]

Never said my rats bit. But that's alright. Thanks for the implication. Because I breed such aggressive man biting rats. rofl

I can handle mine and their babies just like anyone here who implies saying they cull for Maternal Aggression. After the first week the mothers really don't care anyways. But again. I must not know anything. whee

[ArcticMoss]

Good lord so much bickering.
Anywho. I will be culling overly aggressive mamas. For example, today I pulled out a tub with two pregnant mamas and one who had her babies nearly a week ago to check the babies, and there was one not in the nest. I got bit by one of the pregnant mamas (not the first time she's bit me - drawn blood bite at that) and when I picked up the lone little one to check for a milkband the little ones mama tried to bit me and got baby instead. That's not something I'm going to tolerate.

[Kat.On.A.Stick]

Thank you for your input and help, it's appreciated!

ApolloRouge

I do appreciate your input as well. I can see your side of things but there does need to be a certain point of me putting my foot down. What I described above being one.

I feel like both of you had valid points and I'm going to take what I will from both combined with other things I've learned from facebook groups and my own research. I will tolerate some aggression for a while for the sake of them not having been worked with before, but in cases like above and when there is NO improvement I will be culling. I don't want aggressive rats and I don't want aggressive rats biting their own babies or others. That's no bueno.

[Krissim Klaw]

Latrans

Why... would it matter?

Don't people breed rats with different goals in mind? There's no hivemind for breeding rats, right?

I wouldn't want natural rats--I'd want placid domesticated ones that never bit me. That's what I'd breed for.

Sorry, you must be a newb to the forum. When it comes to animals there is only one right way. Just in case anyone is confused, my way is the right way. dramallama

I'm with you though. I value my delicate fingers. I need them for typing so I prefer to avoid gushing wounds.

Thinking of this in terms of dogs, I can't imagine having to deal with an aggressive animal that large, even though I'm sure maternal aggression would be very natural for their ancestors. I'm sure there are dogs that display it, but then there are plenty of females who through good selective breeding would never raise a lip at their owner, pups or no pups. Similarly there are some dogs who have never met a stranger and would not bat an eye even if said stranger came over and started playing with their pups. It all depends on what you are looking for. This is one of the nice things about there being a lot of different breeders out there. Lots of choices to choose from.

The so called 'real version' of a nasty rat ApolloRouge mentions would be perfectly reasonable behavior for a wild rat. It would be a natural behavior of a small, cornered rat trying to survive. Still a lot of people don't like that and choose to cull such aggressive individuals from their lines. If it is possible to breed out one form of aggression I don't understand why a person wouldn't theoretically be able to breed out another variant of it?