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BunnBuns's avatar

Tiny Darling

I've recently got into an argument with a friend of mine who is very... conceited and believes that she's right about everything. She claims that breeding dogs is just as bad as buying a dog from a pet store.
I don't really think it's that bad. If you have a big enough house, enough money to care for the puppies and parents and you're not selling them to just anyone without checking up and all that, why not? I'm not saying to turn two dogs into constant baby makers but what's the big deal if they make a few puppies every other year?

So, my point is, is dog breeding a horrid thing to do?
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Of course that is a matter of opinion, like anything else. However, breeding without credentials, proper knowledge, without adequate resources, and without regard to the dog population in your community, breeding can be very unethical.
There is more to breeding than just putting a male and a female together. You have to have extensive knowledge regarding the species itself, the breed, your target market, etc. etc.
Simply putting two seemingly healthy dogs together is risky. Legitimate breeders have to take so many considerations into account, such as temperate, genetic diseases, and so forth. One cannot casually take up breeding, in fact legit breeders spend a significant part of their free time in the pursuit of this knowledge.
The outcome of breeding is another consideration. People who are passionate about the animal they are breeding do it not for the money, as much as the desire to strengthen the breed. Of course not every breeder seeks this desire, but as you can see, this is more than just making "a few puppies every other year".
To undertake the commitment without understanding the dog population in the community can also be unethical. There are many shelters that are filled to the brim with unwanted dogs, that more often than not, are the result of back yard breeding. It's even more sad when some shelters have a policy that gives them the label "kill shelter" when these animals are not swiftly adopted. Add in the stigma of certain breeds, and the whole thing gets even more complicated.
So your friend, in my opinion, is more correct than you.
Not everyone is going to agree with us, and because of that our shelters will be overcrowded with perfectly decent dogs who have been subjected to irresponsible breeders and owners. For every puppy you find homes for, theoretically, that is one puppy that did not get adopted from a shelter.
If we lived in the world where there was a demand higher than the supply of dogs, if genetic diseases did not exist, and if everyone took the many months (if not years) of learning to understand breeding, then it would be fine.
Latrans's avatar

Devoted Inquisitor

It can be.

I don't think people should breed without purpose, and there needs to be a valid reason for breeding the dogs that they're using. Being cute/a good pet/your dog aren't good reasons. There's tons of cute good pets at the animal shelters. I think that dogs need to be health testesd and/or worked and/or compete in something before being bred. I think that breeding needs to be done with the full knowledge and weight of the animals put down every year in mind, and with the confidence that the puppies you're creating are bringing something special to the table that cannot be found practically at an animal shelter.

What you're talking about sounds like 'just 'cause' breeding, which I think is horrid. Where's the health testing? Where's the work? Where's the competition to prove your stock is mentally and physically sound? Plus, it might not just be a couple puppies. Litters can be as large as 15+ puppies, and even if they're only 2 or 3, each of the females can have a litter at ~6 months old. The problem can be exponential. lol
~ Aki - Fairy ~'s avatar

Feline Fairy

The sort of practice you're referring to, I personally definitely believe to be just as bad as puppy mills (pet shop dog-suppliers).

There are already so many dogs in shelters/out on the streets as a result of such practices - why would adding more be a good idea?

Maybe it's just me but it makes me sick (figuratively, not literally), when people say they want to breed because "they'd make cute babies" or "my dog's so awesome, there should be more like her" or other such s**t in serious-wanting-to-breed mindset/tone (saying doga and dogb would make nice babies in a "just stating the facts, no intent to make it happen" sort of way is completely different and okay)
Personally I don't have as huge a problem with it as many of the people in the petforum scene. If someone I know is going to breed I might drill them a bit and point out the reasons why it isn't a great idea, but I don't think it is the giant horrible sin that many people try to make it out to be. The people I want to see stopped are the ones pumping out hundreds/thousands of dogs a year in horrible conditions, otherwise known as the puppy mills. We don't need them.

Silently I wonder if some of the people against dog breeding also feel the way about their reproductive systems? There is an over population of humans and their are many kids who go without homes. Just what is so special about themselves that deserves to get passed on? How much genetic testing are they planning to have done?
Latrans's avatar

Devoted Inquisitor

Krissim Klaw

Silently I wonder if some of the people against dog breeding also feel the way about their reproductive systems? There is an over population of humans and their are many kids who go without homes. Just what is so special about themselves that deserves to get passed on? How much genetic testing are they planning to have done?


I'm not against dog breeding or people breeding, but I do think that people ought to take their genetic diseases into consideration when they make the choice to reproduce (either for themselves or their dog). I think that all babies should be planned for and desperately wanted. And honestly, when I hear of someone with a devastating disease having their third oops baby, internally I am kind of rolleyes .

I won't ever be having kids of my own. If I decide I want kids, I'll adopt. I don't plan on having any genetic testing done because I'm not going to reproduce, but I do have a fairly serious autosomal dominant disease.

I also am bothered when people say, "There should be a law against breeding blah blah blah dogs," because I do think people are free to do what they want. I am also free to say, "I'd never, ever support that." Just because I think something shouldn't be done doesn't mean I would ever want to take away someone's freedom to do that horrible thing. Too often I see people asking "do you think this is bad," and then when the answer is yes, the first person is sort of like, "WELL IT'S MY CHOICE," or whatever, and I'm kinda like, "Well why'd you ask?"

On the internet, when someone says, 'Hey, I'm thinking about breeding my dog,' I see no problem in saying whhhy dun do eet, because if they're asking if they should on ******** gaia, the answer is no. In real life, I might ask why, and and inquire about health tests/structure and stuff, but in real life, there isn't this assumption of interest in my response. When you make a thread, you're inviting discussion and disagreement. That's not necessarily true in real life.

In the end, there really are only two kinds of breeders: ones I'd buy a puppy from, and ones I wouldn't. I'd personally love it if all breeders met my standards. I'd never, ever want that to be legislated.

/ramble you didn't ask for.
Latrans
/a good pet/your dog aren't good reasons. There's tons of cute good pets at the animal shelters.
See, that is where I am in disagreement. The majority of people looking for a dog are looking for a good pet. Most people don't want a performance dog, don't need it to take down bad guys, don't need it to hunt, don't need it to win trophies, or any of the things that most dog breeds were originally created for. There are a lot of top placing performance dogs that not only would make a terrible pet for the average person but can barely function outside of their narrowly defined job. I'm not saying all performance dogs, but there are breeders more interested in wins than having a dog that doesn't need to be kenneled when not in use.

Can you find good pets in shelters, yes sometimes. But, just because I want a good pet doesn't mean I don't want a healthy dog with a known genetic tree. Let's look at just what a good family dog means for many people. It means having a dog they trust enough in their home to be around their children and family. That is arguably the most important job any dog will have and it isn't an easy one. To me a pet quality dog has very high standards. To be boom proof around kids, good with other dogs and strangers, to genetically be a well balanced dog who won't resort to its teeth even when dealing with average pet owners who often don't do near enough at things like socialization. Since the greatest market for dogs in this day and age is as companion animals, it makes sense to me that there should be good breeders out their breeding dogs specifically to fill that niche.
Latrans's avatar

Devoted Inquisitor

Krissim Klaw
Latrans
/a good pet/your dog aren't good reasons. There's tons of cute good pets at the animal shelters.
See, that is where I am in disagreement. The majority of people looking for a dog are looking for a good pet. Most people don't want a performance dog, don't need it to take down bad guys, don't need it to hunt, don't need it to win trophies, or any of the things that most dog breeds were originally created for. There are a lot of top placing performance dogs that not only would make a terrible pet for the average person but can barely function outside of their narrowly defined job. I'm not saying all performance dogs, but there are breeders more interested in wins than having a dog that doesn't need to be kenneled when not in use.

Can you find good pets in shelters, yes sometimes. But, just because I want a good pet doesn't mean I don't want a healthy dog with a known genetic tree. Let's look at just what a good family dog means for many people. It means having a dog they trust enough in their home to be around their children and family. That is arguably the most important job any dog will have and it isn't an easy one. To me a pet quality dog has very high standards. To be boom proof around kids, good with other dogs and strangers, to genetically be a well balanced dog who won't resort to its teeth even when dealing with average pet owners who often don't do near enough at things like socialization. Since the greatest market for dogs in this day and age is as companion animals, it makes sense to me that there should be good breeders out their breeding dogs specifically to fill that niche.


I think you misunderstood my post, and read into what I said what other people have said.

I don't think being a cute pet is a good enough reason to breed a dog without health testing. That's what the and/or means there. Because pet owners also want to have a temperamentally and physically sound dog. Breeding your two year old b***h to someone else's two year old dog because they're both 'nice' and the vet said they're healthy isn't good enough. Breeding your wonderful family dog who goes everywhere with you and has all the appropriate health tests? Knock yourself out. Still not a dog I'd want, but great. There's no reason those breeders can't also get their dogs TT'd or CGC'd or something as well, because as a pet owner, I want some outside objective person looking at the dogs and saying, 'they're nice,' besides the dog's owner, y'know?

If you want a dog that's just nice, with no family history or health testing or whatever, there are tons of those at shelters.

And those sports breeders don't generally sell their dogs to be just pets, and the people seeking those dogs wouldn't generally be happy with a dog that would do well as a pet in an average house.
I don't find it to be horrible, I just don't think there's any point to breed your dog just because you can. A friend of mine's parents had two labs, and bred 3-4 litters before the stud died. Each litter had a minimum of 7 puppies. That's 21 potential shelter adoptions that didn't happen because some people thought it would be fun to breed their dogs.
There's a shelter by me begging to find potential foster homes for dogs because so many are coming in. Many times, it's accidental litters for BYBs or whatever they had left over that they couldn't sell. There's also so much more that goes into breeding other than just throwing a couple of dogs together and hoping for the best. Want to even sell those dogs? You'll have to cough up the cash to vaccinate each puppy.
It's just plain irresponsible to breed dogs just because you feel like it.
BunnBuns
I've recently got into an argument with a friend of mine who is very... conceited and believes that she's right about everything. She claims that breeding dogs is just as bad as buying a dog from a pet store.
I don't really think it's that bad. If you have a big enough house, enough money to care for the puppies and parents and you're not selling them to just anyone without checking up and all that, why not? I'm not saying to turn two dogs into constant baby makers but what's the big deal if they make a few puppies every other year?

So, my point is, is dog breeding a horrid thing to do?
i dont think so
Somebody probably already mentioned this, but I'm going to say it just in case.

There's a big overpopulation problem in the U.S.

So basically for every dog you breed, another dog in a shelter dies.
Moth Feathers's avatar

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Somebody probably already mentioned this, but I'm going to say it just in case.

There's a big overpopulation problem in the U.S.

So basically for every dog you breed, another dog in a shelter dies.


What if someone purchases a dog from a breeder that wouldn't be found in a shelter? Like a working dog, or a dog from health-tested parents with a known lineage.

People keep dogs for many purposes and look for different things. Some people may be content with having a dog with unknown parentage, but others may wish differently.
Moth Feathers
Boycott Factory Farming
Somebody probably already mentioned this, but I'm going to say it just in case.

There's a big overpopulation problem in the U.S.

So basically for every dog you breed, another dog in a shelter dies.


What if someone purchases a dog from a breeder that wouldn't be found in a shelter? Like a working dog, or a dog from health-tested parents with a known lineage.

People keep dogs for many purposes and look for different things. Some people may be content with having a dog with unknown parentage, but others may wish differently.


That's their choice but they should find a responsible breeder (not buying from a puppy mill) and if they're just keeping the dog for companionship they should be comfortable with the fact that their choice likely meant another perfectly good dog in a shelter died.

That's how I see it.
Savage Destiny's avatar

Eloquent Gawker

Krissim Klaw
See, that is where I am in disagreement. The majority of people looking for a dog are looking for a good pet. Most people don't want a performance dog, don't need it to take down bad guys, don't need it to hunt, don't need it to win trophies, or any of the things that most dog breeds were originally created for. There are a lot of top placing performance dogs that not only would make a terrible pet for the average person but can barely function outside of their narrowly defined job. I'm not saying all performance dogs, but there are breeders more interested in wins than having a dog that doesn't need to be kenneled when not in use.

Can you find good pets in shelters, yes sometimes. But, just because I want a good pet doesn't mean I don't want a healthy dog with a known genetic tree. Let's look at just what a good family dog means for many people. It means having a dog they trust enough in their home to be around their children and family. That is arguably the most important job any dog will have and it isn't an easy one. To me a pet quality dog has very high standards. To be boom proof around kids, good with other dogs and strangers, to genetically be a well balanced dog who won't resort to its teeth even when dealing with average pet owners who often don't do near enough at things like socialization. Since the greatest market for dogs in this day and age is as companion animals, it makes sense to me that there should be good breeders out their breeding dogs specifically to fill that niche.


But plenty of "pet" dogs come from working, sporting, and show litters. Plenty. Not everyone who buys from breeders who only breed health tested, titled dogs are looking for working or performance dogs.

The dogs you are describing as dogs you and most people want can (and do) come from responsible breeders. To be temperamentally solid, healthy, well balanced dog. There is a MUCH greater chance of getting a dog like that from someone who goes the extra mile than from people who go, "Hey my dog is friendly and cute, so is yours, let's breed".

So yeah. I believe that, at the very least, people need to be doing health and temperament tests on dogs they plan to breed. I prefer some sort of title as well, whether it be working, sporting, or show. I want to see breeders doing things with their dogs besides just breeding them.

There are thousands of dogs dying every single day from lack of homes. That's not just due to puppy mills, that's due to backyard breeding as well. Hell, there is a thread floating around the forum here somewhere that someone describes their childhood dog having 12 puppies, then two of those pups each having 12 more, then one of them had a second litter of 15! From one dog who was irresponsibly bred, 51 were produced. That is insane, and exactly what needs to stop happening.
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If you were to want to start breeding, it should be a breed that has few members; as in breed to help keep a breed alive =) Unless there is a high demand for a certain breed of dog, and you had potential owners lined up. I say before you breed, make sure that you have "parents" lined up so they don't end up in the pound. Otherwise, don't breed. My cat accidentally got pregnant, and I decided to go through with the pregnancy (partially because where I live there is an extra $25 charge for spaying a pregnant cat) but I am pretty sure I can get homes for the little ones because there are daily requests for kittens in my area.

Back to dogs. Breeding can be bad if you are just letting your dog get pregnant every time she goes into heat. If you want to let her have a litter every couple years, just make sure there are homes lined up for the little ones before you do. If breeding was bad, then all animals would be required to be sterilized immediately and then in about 20 years, there would be no more dogs on the planet =(

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