bluecherry
Note from Panagrammic: Moving this up to the main forum (and clearing votes for it), but you'll have to realize that this is such a huge implementation effort that it is very unlikely we would do it. The avatar composition code is very complex, and we have an entire suite of tools built around the way that it works now; changing that would require us to a) validate almost every item we have again, b) totally rewrite the avatar composition (which includes such things as filmstrip building, which are used in the flash games), c) rework the way we do animated items, d) change the way that we persist avatar data, e) come up with an interface for controlling the layering, f) figure out migration for old avatars, so on and so forth. Users are unhappy with the number of "green goo" problems we have now; can you imagine the number of problems that would be raised if layering was suddenly completely up to the user?
EDIT: 11/6/12 - Moved to petitions. This is not encouraging. emo This wasn't designed to be a petition so there's no signature list due to the previous forum's cookie voting system. There are over 7000 cookie votes this got and I don't see any practical way to convert from that to signatures given the anonymous nature of the cookie voting. Feel free to bump this from time to time for visibility's sake, but I'm not going to attempt to start keeping a signature list, so posting that you sign isn't needed.
Basically, the idea is to enable Gaians to choose what order they want their items on their avatar, what goes over and under what. If we want two pairs of pants and the left sock from this pair and the right sock from that pair, then we can have it that way, unorthodox or even perspective-thwarting though it may be.
Perhaps have a "basic" system that is exactly what we have now and then an "advanced" option that lets us alter and fiddle with things to customize it from what the layering is like on the regular basic layering system so that there is still a quick and uncomplicated option for when we aren't trying to do anything all that extravagant. razz I wouldn't want to end up losing the ability to do simple things quickly in the process of expanding options.
I expect this would take a lot of time and effort, I know, but I figured it was worth mentioning because it has been something I and many others have expressed a desire for many, many times over the years.
ADDENDUM: As long as I'm mentioning options like wearing only one sock from a pair, being able to swap what eyebrows go with what hair/wigs too please? emotion_kirakira
Here is one simple mock up for a layout idea for this:
The list on the right is of icons of what is equipped right now that can can be dragged to rearrange what goes over and under what while the rest is unchanged, except moving an ad box perhaps. The order of items in your actual inventory is unaffected. Maybe the list on the right could be made collapsible like the box of new items at the bottom so those who do not want to be bothered by it don't have to be.
EDIT 9/27/11:
Flipping through this thread, I believe you can find plenty of evidence for the whole "IT WOULD BE SO WORTH THE WAIT" thing.
EDIT: 11/6/12 - Moved to petitions. This is not encouraging. emo This wasn't designed to be a petition so there's no signature list due to the previous forum's cookie voting system. There are over 7000 cookie votes this got and I don't see any practical way to convert from that to signatures given the anonymous nature of the cookie voting. Feel free to bump this from time to time for visibility's sake, but I'm not going to attempt to start keeping a signature list, so posting that you sign isn't needed.
Basically, the idea is to enable Gaians to choose what order they want their items on their avatar, what goes over and under what. If we want two pairs of pants and the left sock from this pair and the right sock from that pair, then we can have it that way, unorthodox or even perspective-thwarting though it may be.
Perhaps have a "basic" system that is exactly what we have now and then an "advanced" option that lets us alter and fiddle with things to customize it from what the layering is like on the regular basic layering system so that there is still a quick and uncomplicated option for when we aren't trying to do anything all that extravagant. razz I wouldn't want to end up losing the ability to do simple things quickly in the process of expanding options.
I expect this would take a lot of time and effort, I know, but I figured it was worth mentioning because it has been something I and many others have expressed a desire for many, many times over the years.
ADDENDUM: As long as I'm mentioning options like wearing only one sock from a pair, being able to swap what eyebrows go with what hair/wigs too please? emotion_kirakira
Here is one simple mock up for a layout idea for this:
Skunky Kush
The list on the right is of icons of what is equipped right now that can can be dragged to rearrange what goes over and under what while the rest is unchanged, except moving an ad box perhaps. The order of items in your actual inventory is unaffected. Maybe the list on the right could be made collapsible like the box of new items at the bottom so those who do not want to be bothered by it don't have to be.
EDIT 9/27/11:
Doram
All right. I have been thinking about this, programming-wise, for a bit, and here's the solution I came up with. Now, I do not know the full complexity of the current setup, but here's a way it could work:
I've seen a mockup in this thread for a new box on the right of the dress-up screen that lists the items equipped so that you can select their layer order. This can make the dress-up screen the source for the completed image, instead of having it re-rendered at other points in its use. Just have the dress-up screen capture the avi as designed, send that image to the cache servers, and have other processes go to those servers for the images. You could also have a flag of whether the avi has an animated image set, and when the flag is set, the dress-up app would render the additional frames of animation at the same time as the still, and other calling functions would read the flag and load the image as a single or multiple image as appropriate. "I Am" items already override regular items, so I see no reason why that would have to change. Just make the other items grayed out in the right hand z-level box for a visual indicator. Also, the "walk" animation in towns and zOMG is just a blurred leg swish, so that can be layered on top of anything. Finally, the back version of the avi can be set to the opposite of the front to begin with, but can be separately set as well. So, the final image set would be: front-right-facing, front-left-facing, back (flippable), f-r-kneeling, f-l-kneeling, back-kneeling, and when necessary, f-r-animation, f-l-animation, back-animation, f-r-kneel-animation, f-l-kneel-animation, back-kneel-animation, so either 6 or 12 images depending on animated item usage, and if you want a part of the site to not worry about the animation, just have it load the first 6 images.
As for layering within clothes, I'm sure there are some items that have more than one layer to accommodate backs to jackets that may be visible, and other such. What you could do is simply make the z-level of the item back layer a relative -1. You could further limit the regular item layers z-level, within the Dress-up interface, to a minimum of 1 or 2 to make sure that the relative -1 wouldn't break the code (and it doesn't need to be anything visible to the players, either).
So, in conclusion, make the dress-up program a little heavier, and you could actually lighten a bunch of the other processes, probably save on some server resource usage, and it would standardize the avi's look across the site as well!
I've seen a mockup in this thread for a new box on the right of the dress-up screen that lists the items equipped so that you can select their layer order. This can make the dress-up screen the source for the completed image, instead of having it re-rendered at other points in its use. Just have the dress-up screen capture the avi as designed, send that image to the cache servers, and have other processes go to those servers for the images. You could also have a flag of whether the avi has an animated image set, and when the flag is set, the dress-up app would render the additional frames of animation at the same time as the still, and other calling functions would read the flag and load the image as a single or multiple image as appropriate. "I Am" items already override regular items, so I see no reason why that would have to change. Just make the other items grayed out in the right hand z-level box for a visual indicator. Also, the "walk" animation in towns and zOMG is just a blurred leg swish, so that can be layered on top of anything. Finally, the back version of the avi can be set to the opposite of the front to begin with, but can be separately set as well. So, the final image set would be: front-right-facing, front-left-facing, back (flippable), f-r-kneeling, f-l-kneeling, back-kneeling, and when necessary, f-r-animation, f-l-animation, back-animation, f-r-kneel-animation, f-l-kneel-animation, back-kneel-animation, so either 6 or 12 images depending on animated item usage, and if you want a part of the site to not worry about the animation, just have it load the first 6 images.
As for layering within clothes, I'm sure there are some items that have more than one layer to accommodate backs to jackets that may be visible, and other such. What you could do is simply make the z-level of the item back layer a relative -1. You could further limit the regular item layers z-level, within the Dress-up interface, to a minimum of 1 or 2 to make sure that the relative -1 wouldn't break the code (and it doesn't need to be anything visible to the players, either).
So, in conclusion, make the dress-up program a little heavier, and you could actually lighten a bunch of the other processes, probably save on some server resource usage, and it would standardize the avi's look across the site as well!
Aeris The Angel of Chaos
I understand that this system may take a long time to implement and be very complex. I'm also saying I could not possibly care less. Ive been on this site for over 4 years and I have no problem waiting to get the layering I like if it takes 4 more. I understand how daunting and complicated it may sound but we know it wont be done overnight. So this is my relatively thought out suggestion. (wall of text incoming)
You could start doing it section by section. So you begin going in and recoding foot items starting with shoes, then socks, then stockings/tights, and then leg mods and then put it up in the labs for testing and feedback.
If were surrounded by green goo and there's a million other glitches with just our legs/feet it obviously wont work for the whole avatar yet and it has to go back to the drawing board. If it works well then maybe you can start on pants/skirts. Doing it this way would also allow it so when people are creating items in the first place they would start using the new system so they don't have anything else to convert later.
Im thinking about with the number of items we have it would take at the very least 6 months per layer (most likely a year or more with the development of rig, cs, and event items unless you put a substantial team specifically on converting things) but if thats what it takes then fine. But don't say no just because it will take time and effort. If it makes over 5,000 users happy its likely worth the effort.
You could start doing it section by section. So you begin going in and recoding foot items starting with shoes, then socks, then stockings/tights, and then leg mods and then put it up in the labs for testing and feedback.
If were surrounded by green goo and there's a million other glitches with just our legs/feet it obviously wont work for the whole avatar yet and it has to go back to the drawing board. If it works well then maybe you can start on pants/skirts. Doing it this way would also allow it so when people are creating items in the first place they would start using the new system so they don't have anything else to convert later.
Im thinking about with the number of items we have it would take at the very least 6 months per layer (most likely a year or more with the development of rig, cs, and event items unless you put a substantial team specifically on converting things) but if thats what it takes then fine. But don't say no just because it will take time and effort. If it makes over 5,000 users happy its likely worth the effort.
Flipping through this thread, I believe you can find plenty of evidence for the whole "IT WOULD BE SO WORTH THE WAIT" thing.
