Sticky: [ Poll ] PL's Peak: Guide to Poetry and Critique (feedback/discuss!)

Why are you here?

I'm here for the poetry guide!		43.3%	[ 384 ]
I'm here for the critiquing guide!		19.7%	[ 175 ]
I'm here because someone else pointed me here.		6.7%	[ 59 ]
I'm here for the gold. Didn't it say it had a poll?		30.3%	[ 269 ]

Total Votes: 887

[Ivyana]

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

When I say "writing", that includes revising.

Obviously.

That's Timeless. There is no perfect poem so the time a person took to write it means nothing.

What?

A poet is always revising their work. Therefore telling people the time it took you to work with the piece means nothing.

[Follow My Lied]

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

When I say "writing", that includes revising.

Obviously.

That's Timeless. There is no perfect poem so the time a person took to write it means nothing.

What?

A poet is always revising their work. Therefore telling people the time it took you to work with the piece means nothing.

But considering it in your criticism is very necessary, because there are stages to any work, and some comments can only be made once a work has reached a certain stage.

The amount of effort you put into it is everything.

Even if you don't change anything from the original draft, you should spend some time in deciding why not.

[Ivyana]

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

When I say "writing", that includes revising.

Obviously.

That's Timeless. There is no perfect poem so the time a person took to write it means nothing.

What?

A poet is always revising their work. Therefore telling people the time it took you to work with the piece means nothing.

But considering it in your criticism is very necessary, because there are stages to any work, and some comments can only be made once a work has reached a certain stage.

The amount of effort you put into it is everything.

Even if you don't change anything from the original draft, you should spend some time in deciding why not.

Not really, some people could have spent weeks or months on a piece and it can still be awful. Others could have spent a few seconds or hours on the piece and produce something extraordinary. Yes the effort the poet puts into their work is everything but some critics and most of the audience couldn't care less about the time it took.

[Follow My Lied]

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

When I say "writing", that includes revising.

Obviously.

That's Timeless. There is no perfect poem so the time a person took to write it means nothing.

What?

A poet is always revising their work. Therefore telling people the time it took you to work with the piece means nothing.

But considering it in your criticism is very necessary, because there are stages to any work, and some comments can only be made once a work has reached a certain stage.

The amount of effort you put into it is everything.

Even if you don't change anything from the original draft, you should spend some time in deciding why not.

Not really, some people could have spent weeks or months on a piece and it can still be awful. Others could have spent a few seconds or hours on the piece and produce something extraordinary. Yes the effort the poet puts into their work is everything but some critics and most of the audience couldn't care less.

They should.

If they're interested in helping with growth.

The quality of the poem is what we're working at when we're critiquing, so that's what's probably not going to matter so much.

Since it will change.

[Ivyana]

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

Ivyana

Follow My Lied

What?

A poet is always revising their work. Therefore telling people the time it took you to work with the piece means nothing.

But considering it in your criticism is very necessary, because there are stages to any work, and some comments can only be made once a work has reached a certain stage.

The amount of effort you put into it is everything.

Even if you don't change anything from the original draft, you should spend some time in deciding why not.

Not really, some people could have spent weeks or months on a piece and it can still be awful. Others could have spent a few seconds or hours on the piece and produce something extraordinary. Yes the effort the poet puts into their work is everything but some critics and most of the audience couldn't care less.

They should.

If they're interested in helping with growth.

The quality of the poem is what we're working at when we're critiquing, so that's what's probably not going to matter so much.

Since it will change.

I think that's a personal preference.

For me, If I don't see anything in their piece, the time they spent on it holds no weight.

[Johnny x F x]

Follow My Lied

Quote:

The time it took for someone to write a poem means nothing to me since the poet will end up revising it anyway

When I say "writing", that includes revising.

Obviously.

I think we should encourage revision before posting around here.

WORD.

as far as the question about line vs stanza crit depends heavily on the piece. Sometimes a piece has so much glarin at me that a brief blurb per stanza is enough, other times it's because it's a particularly long piece. if a poet has a distinctly unique style that i would feel weird about commenting on, i'll often limit crit to stanzas/chunks, or often just one lump crit on the entirety of it.

[Ivyana]

Follow My Lied

I think we should encourage revision before posting around here.

If someone is new at poetry, that theory would be null and void. No offense but this place isn't exactly poets.org or something. Sure, they are a couple of dedicated poets (and no this does NOT apply to all the regulars) but most are just testing the waters. Some people haven't learned how to take a critical view of their work. Others have no idea of their personal style. You may be asking for too much.

[Poetess Laureate]

Follow My Lied

My question would be:

What are we looking for when we get into it? How can we tell if a person's really trying or just wanking?

It's easy to get a feel for quality quickly. It's not easy to get a feel for effort. Any level of quality could have potentially come from any level of effort.

All I really rail against are the ones who defend a poem by telling how long it took. Because if they say, "Well back off -- I only wrote it in five minutes!", they're saying that short amount of time is why the poem lacks. So why didn't they spend the time to make it good before posting here? Or, if they didn't, why not be open to advice and help if they already recognize it needs it?

You can also often tell if someone's really trying by their response to criticism. Questions to get further assistance or clarify a critique show they probably are. Defensiveness or asserting the poem is pretty much perfect show they may not be.

[Oxxidation-12]

For Christ's sake, BLOCK IVYANA. Do you really want HER advice in this thing? Ms. I Took A Class So I'm Above the Rules?

[Astaire]

Oxxidation-12

For Christ's sake, BLOCK IVYANA. Do you really want HER advice in this thing? Ms. I Took A Class So I'm Above the Rules?

If her advice is valid, then yes. I'm sure PL can decide for herself whether or not Ivyana's words of wisdom are worth including.

Personally, I think we should encourage revision before posting, even in new poets: even when I was a total newbie, after setting a poem aside and reading it again, there would be things I'd read that I want to fix. I think we all have experienced those moments where we read a poem we wrote a week ago and it doesn't sound as good as when you originally wrote it; that's why constant revision should be encouraged in those who practice it already as well as pre-revising before posting (when receiving crits, it's always good to have your poem in the best possible state.)

I agree that the major problem on THESE forums are the people who churn out poetry in 5 minutes... and it's awful. These especially are the people who need to be told to revise their work; of course, I've noticed that these people ALSO tend to fall into the category of "won't listen to anything anyone says."

One think I think EVERYONE can agree on, though: Spellchecking before posting NEEDS to be enforced. If any pre-editing needs to be required, it's ensuring the grammar and spelling in your poetry is correct. My job as a critic is not to be somebody's personal spellchecker. stare

[Poetess Laureate]

Astaire

One think I think EVERYONE can agree on, though: Spellchecking before posting NEEDS to be enforced. If any pre-editing needs to be required, it's ensuring the grammar and spelling in your poetry is correct. My job as a critic is not to be somebody's personal spellchecker. stare

Yes. Spell-checkers are ALL OVER THE PLACE. It's almost harder not to use one than it is to run something through one.

How do we 'enforce' this, though? Obviously no one can sit over everyone's hand and make them put their piece through a spellcheck.

[Pirouzu]

Geez, just because Ivyana pissed off a couple of regs, everyone just decides to plug up their ears with both fingers singing "la, la, la". What ignorance you all show.

[Ivyana]

`Kira

Geez, just because Ivyana pissed off a couple of regs, everyone just decides to plug up their ears with both fingers singing "la, la, la". What ignorance you all show.

It's the downside of dealing with the main clique on forums or anywhere. Someone's status (unless I'm dealing with my sexuality) isn't important to me therefore people get angry and think if they oust me, I will go. In the end it never works because not everyone will not turn against me without a personal reason.

[Follow My Lied]

I personally don't give a s**t either way. surprised

You bitches can be blocked. cool