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I'm here for the poetry guide! 0.45068285280728 45.1% [ 594 ]
I'm here for the critiquing guide! 0.18816388467375 18.8% [ 248 ]
I'm here because someone else pointed me here. 0.060698027314112 6.1% [ 80 ]
I'm here for the gold. Didn't it say it had a poll? 0.30045523520486 30.0% [ 396 ]
Total Votes:[ 1318 ]
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Have Your Pi
Ivyana
All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

I am living disproof of that statement. wink

My first attempts at poetry would make you vomit. I'd like to think I've progressed since that point, even to the point of being a good poet.

I might revise your statement to, "You can't teach someone how to be a great poet." You do hit a point where it's something beyond teaching. But I fully believe that anybody can become a good poet, with dedication and good instruction. That's a philosophy that extends to more than poetry, too.


I'll concede that some are the exception but others are beyond help. Someone thinking poetry takes no skill would never be a good poet.

I will agree with you about the inability to teach someone to be a great poet.

On a side note, ever had people tell you "You're a good writer, but you can be better"?

I go nuts when I hear that. lol
Have Your Pi
Grimaldi
Have Your Pi
Ivyana
All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

I am living disproof of that statement. wink

My first attempts at poetry would make you vomit. I'd like to think I've progressed since that point, even to the point of being a good poet.

I might revise your statement to, "You can't teach someone how to be a great poet." You do hit a point where it's something beyond teaching. But I fully believe that anybody can become a good poet, with dedication and good instruction. That's a philosophy that extends to more than poetry, too.


"Good" instruction (which brings us back to "what's good"?) can be wasted on the unwilling. And nobody writes for you.

All effort, growth, and reward lies completely with the writer.

True, nobody presses the keys/grabs the pen for me. But if I had been left completely to my own devices, I would never have progressed. It was my effort and dedication that led to my growth, but the discerning eye of my colleagues and peers was key shaping that growth to be something elegant instead of something misshapen and awkward.

No, you cannot force a writer to improve. However, I hardly see that as an excuse not to try.


People critique for themselves as much as for their fellows, if not moreso. You had to sift through their advice -- filter out what they may have been trying to press onto you. If you didn't have some idea of what's "good" already, their advice would be pretty useless to you.

Bottom line: give yourself more credit. whee
I have definitely improved based on advice, and been taught things directly that I never knew or would have thought of at ALL included in said advice. This is why I love critique and workshop forums; they are my education. Like Pi, I was also pulled out of the 'gutter' of abysmal poe-try this way. So I'm going to come down on the side of teaching as a rule.

That said, right now I've been working on some specific aspects of my poetry. And I know exactly what needs to improve, and I know 'how good' my attempts in the specific area are so far, but what's coming out is still not the quality it needs to be.

So I'm not sure whether this is new or restating, but it's also true that knowing what good poetry is doesn't necessarily mean one can produce it. It just means more frustration at the 'misses' because you know better. So to be directly relevant again, even 'already having a sense of what's good' doesn't necessarily mean one knows how to write.
I need some advice sweatdrop

Would it be a good idea to start a blog displaying my works?

On a side note, good I have to delete my character to change the eye color? Thanks.
SO IT'S A STICKY NOW? eek

I have to keep up with all this nonsense.
Pirouzu
SO IT'S A STICKY NOW? eek

I have to keep up with all this nonsense.


My stickification is not nonsense! crying emo
Poetess Laureate
Pirouzu
SO IT'S A STICKY NOW? eek

I have to keep up with all this nonsense.


My stickification is not nonsense! crying emo
Of course it isn't. xp
This was a very helpful guide. 3nodding
Pencilled In
This was a very helpful guide. 3nodding


Thank you. biggrin Mind if I ask what parts you found especially useful and why? I AM DESIROUS OF FEEDBACK!
I found the Capitilization & Puncuation and the Line Breaks/Enjambment/Spacing sections very helpful. They make it easy to learn how to create subtle double meanings. 3nodding
Thoughts On Imagery


I'm sure many of us are aware that we can go overboard on the use of "poetic" images. The fear of producing something unoriginal or trite is constantly nipping at our heels when we sit down to write, and for good reason: we want people to enjoy and want to read our stuff; otherwise, what's the point? So, to quiet that fear, we take the most interesting ideas, pictures, sounds, tastes, and smells, and plop them down. The task of writing then becomes simply an attempt to weave together what our brain has farted out in its moment of brilliance. We dig for some sort of coherence, biting pieces off the corners to make them fit, instead of stopping for a moment to really think about what's in front of us.

The images many of us use are nice and original: a sheet of sky tearing into snow-confetti -- a man made of bricks licking passing cars -- babies planted in the ground and growing into shark-mailboxes --whatever. But these images, while cool, are often baseless: not grounded in anything real. I think that a push for IMAGES: things, no matter what they are, as long as we can sense them, is what we should be after, but the concept has to be unpacked a little more, taken a little further.

I believe that a poet, first and foremost, is someone who has begun and sustained the practice of exploring the vast terrain of the imagination. We look inward just as much as we draw from the world around us for inspiration. We process this information through the context of our own personal experience: in terms of the real things that have shaped us, made us who we are. If our world is a reality, and our experiences formed out of that reality, then it makes sense that we should write about real things. But who wants real? Real life is tedium. Many people write to escape their real lives. The need to escape the oppression of reality is what gave steam to movements like dada and surrealism; but dada was extremely short-lived, and surrealism appealed only to a select few. If escapist, surreal imagery does not satisfy the average Joe, what will?

Grounded simplicity and clarity.

Yes, we've heard it before, but I think we may have been afraid to really listen. Sure, realism can get banal, if someone chooses to cling firmly to verisimilitude and forget that they're still writing a poem, which still has the potential to be something beautiful (if the author chooses). The blending of realism and art is probably our ultimate goal as poets. We need to take the actual world around us and turn it into something else. Something bigger than just the sum of its parts.

One of the biggest problems a growing writer can face is subtext -- what they want the poem to say without actually saying it. It's a thin line to walk. Every time we pick up the pen, we're trying to find that happy medium, a working balance between text and subtext. When we create images, we should be trying to imagine all the ways it could possibly function. This is a grueling task to be sure; our own subjective responses are almost always attached to them automatically (We are later surprised to find that not everyone feels the same way or gets the same thing from baby shark mailboxes, even though we thought the implications couldn't be clearer). It's disheartening, but we have to be willing to accept that our first instincts and inclinations may almost always lead us astray.

Now, I'm not saying that there's any way to escape subjectivity in your writing. It will be with you always, and that's not a bad thing by any means --it's really what makes your writing "your writing." But, as I said, we need to be as considerate as possible to the reading of others. Because this must be so, we need to think about what kind of images we're putting out there for our readers to pick up. I believe that there are two main things to consider when writing a poem.

First, as I hinted at before, we need to make sure that our images are as real as possible. This way, we can have some degree of confidence that our message will get across to a larger audience. I'm not talking about just abstraction or vaguenesses, but in the actual images we choose to present, and how to present them. For example, writing a poem that compares the idea of love to a galaxy exploding and devouring a million vividly described worlds of freedom is an interesting idea, but what is there to anchor it to reality? What do a million screaming, burning alien children, flesh dripping from their faces like honey from a comb, really give us about the abstract of "love?" You can taste, touch, feel, and smell all you like, but in the end you're left with unrelatable melodrama and...well...dead babies. Now, comparing love to the shore curled about the sea with endless repetitive motion: there's something real, something solid.

While solid, real imagery is completely necessary, I think that we are too focused on our senses for our own good. A good poet does not need to remind you that your senses are engaged. There's a type of "in your face" mentality among us that can really be detrimental to our work. I am loathe to bring up our hated axiom "show, don't tell," but I think it can come back to bite our butts if we're not careful and don't show a little restraint. Someone who writes "The paper-textured flowers wafted the scent of jasmine/ my nose crinkled and a tingle touched the back of my throat" is doing what he or she has sworn not to do: they are telling you what you are feeling. Instead of going subtly (a subjective idea, I know, and a whole different discussion) into the subject, they are pounding their reader with their sense perceptions.

I don't know about you, but I like to experience things for myself.

How we've decided to handle our subject matter will ultimately decide what kind of imagery we will use, and to what extent. Dialogue can contain its own brand of imagery (and no, not the kind that describes a picture). Suggestions, images placed at a poetic distance, in the background, so to speak, will have much more power because of their subtlety. I think, when all is said and done, we just need to realize that imagery is what makes poetry, but it is not what makes the poem. Thoughts, ideas, wording, coding, pictures, smells, suggestions -- all these things work together. You don't have to use all of them all of the time (restraint is awesome guys, seriously.), but conscious choices as to their uses must be made.

They must.
this was very helpful
thax heart
butterflyfairyprincess
this was very helpful
thax heart


biggrin What did you find helpful in particular?
I guess nobody has any objections to anything I said?
Grimaldi
I guess nobody has any objections to anything I said?


Actually I just don't think anyone read it.


@PL-THIS HELPED A LOT. Particularly the section on linebreaks, but the part about symbolism/metaphors/similes was also a big help.

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