PL's Peak: Guide to Poetry and Critique (feedback/discuss!)

Why are you here?

I'm here for the poetry guide!	45.1%	[ 594 ]
I'm here for the critiquing guide!	18.8%	[ 247 ]
I'm here because someone else pointed me here.	6.1%	[ 80 ]
I'm here for the gold. Didn't it say it had a poll?	30.1%	[ 396 ]
Total Votes:			[ 1317 ]

[Son Vrai]

This is nice <33

[Pet The Baby!]

Un nuevo sticky?



muy bueno, PL!

[Maj is Dead]

We're congratulating peple for getting stickied, now?








Huh.

[Poetess Laureate]

Thanks to those who've congratulated. heart

That said, maybe I'm noticing it just because I've been toying elsewhere the past few days, but was the constructive crit always this close to the border of unhelpful?

I'm not going to put on a holier-than-thou halo, because I tend to get sarcastic when provoked myself, but I'm genuinely curious about what's provoking this reaction. Lack of receptivity on the parts of the writers? Frustration at the work involved in deeper critique being ignored?

[Grimaldi]

Wow! Fun place! blaugh heart

My friend and I were discussing poetry the other day. She said she goes on this site sometimes, and that I should check it out. I just so happen to have a personal theory on poetry!

I like to think of a poem as a haircut! Obviously, there's no single style or "do" that looks good on everyone: you have to consider the age, head-shape, and social norms, and personal tastes when deciding how to cut your hair.

Similarly, there is no standard "good poem." Every single poem must be gaged according to its own devices and execution. "Personal tastes," which can get murky, should not be considered in judging the poem's execution. Think about how well the cut looks on the person. Even a "flock of seagulls" can be pulled off by the right person. dramallama

[Poetess Laureate]

Grimaldi

I like to think of a poem as a haircut! Obviously, there's no single style or "do" that looks good on everyone: you have to consider the age, head-shape, and social norms, and personal tastes when deciding how to cut your hair.

Definitely -- though bear in mind there is a difference between style and craft.

Grimaldi

Similarly, there is no standard "good poem." Every single poem must be gaged according to its own devices and execution. "Personal tastes," which can get murky, should not be considered in judging the poem's execution. Think about how well the cut looks on the person. Even a "flock of seagulls" can be pulled off by the right person. dramallama

No poem is perfect. There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Personal taste is separate from these, as they mainly consist of questions such as "is there developed imagery?"

A flock of seagulls can be pulled off by the right person because that person knows how to do something special with it that sets it apart from the 238379349324 people who've tried and failed. biggrin

[Grimaldi]

Poetess Laureate

There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Such as?

[Poetess Laureate]

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Such as?

....I'm going to go with 'you haven't read this sticky' considering it discusses that and even has a sort of 'checklist' at one point.

That said, primarily whether poetic devices are at least employed (and hence whether it is indeed poetry vs. prose) and whether they are effective; that is, whether the elements of craft are getting the reaction in readers that the poet desires.

[Hoodimann]

Poetess Laureate

Thanks to those who've congratulated. heart

That said, maybe I'm noticing it just because I've been toying elsewhere the past few days, but was the constructive crit always this close to the border of unhelpful?

I'm not going to put on a holier-than-thou halo, because I tend to get sarcastic when provoked myself, but I'm genuinely curious about what's provoking this reaction. Lack of receptivity on the parts of the writers? Frustration at the work involved in deeper critique being ignored?

You know me, love.
You also know my critiquing style.
When I'm here, I give it my all. I like this thread. I'm sure I'll learn loads from it.
Don't ever let it go!

[Grimaldi]

Poetess Laureate

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Such as?

That said, primarily whether poetic devices are at least employed (and hence whether it is indeed poetry vs. prose) and whether they are effective; that is, whether the elements of craft are getting the reaction in readers that the poet desires.

I think that's what I just said...

But nobody's written "How to Write a Successful Poem," because all anyone can say is: here's what you should use. Use them right.

And give some examples.

A poem may employ metaphor, but the metaphor is not apt. A work may use personification, but end up cheesy. Your verse may contain allusions that are obscure, or word play that is confusing -- well-meaning ideas that are flat, boring or inconsequential.

Who can teach you not to write bad poetry well? Nobody.

Spelling? grammar? line breaks?

Either automatic or secondary.

[Ivyana]

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Such as?

That said, primarily whether poetic devices are at least employed (and hence whether it is indeed poetry vs. prose) and whether they are effective; that is, whether the elements of craft are getting the reaction in readers that the poet desires.

I think that's what I just said...

But nobody's written "How to Write a Successful Poem," because all anyone can say is: here's what you should use. Use them right.

And give some examples.

A poem may employ metaphor, but the metaphor is not apt. A work may use personification, but end up cheesy. Your verse may contain allusions that are obscure, or word play that is confusing -- well-meaning ideas that are flat, boring or inconsequential.

Who can teach you not to write bad poetry well? Nobody.

Spelling? grammar? line breaks?

Either automatic or secondary.

All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

[Grimaldi]

Ivyana

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

Grimaldi

Poetess Laureate

There are fairly set or at least widely-agreed-upon criteria to judge whether it is good.

Such as?

That said, primarily whether poetic devices are at least employed (and hence whether it is indeed poetry vs. prose) and whether they are effective; that is, whether the elements of craft are getting the reaction in readers that the poet desires.

I think that's what I just said...

But nobody's written "How to Write a Successful Poem," because all anyone can say is: here's what you should use. Use them right.

And give some examples.

A poem may employ metaphor, but the metaphor is not apt. A work may use personification, but end up cheesy. Your verse may contain allusions that are obscure, or word play that is confusing -- well-meaning ideas that are flat, boring or inconsequential.

Who can teach you not to write bad poetry well? Nobody.

Spelling? grammar? line breaks?

Either automatic or secondary.

All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

Again...

thanks for repeating what I just said. lol

[Have Your Pi]

Ivyana

All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

I am living disproof of that statement. wink

My first attempts at poetry would make you vomit. I'd like to think I've progressed since that point, even to the point of being a good poet.

I might revise your statement to, "You can't teach someone how to be a great poet." You do hit a point where it's something beyond teaching. But I fully believe that anybody can become a good poet, with dedication and good instruction. That's a philosophy that extends to more than poetry, too.

[Grimaldi]

Have Your Pi

Ivyana

All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

I am living disproof of that statement. wink

My first attempts at poetry would make you vomit. I'd like to think I've progressed since that point, even to the point of being a good poet.

I might revise your statement to, "You can't teach someone how to be a great poet." You do hit a point where it's something beyond teaching. But I fully believe that anybody can become a good poet, with dedication and good instruction. That's a philosophy that extends to more than poetry, too.

"Good" instruction (which brings us back to "what's good"?) can be wasted on the unwilling. And nobody writes for you.

All effort, growth, and reward lies completely with the writer.

[Have Your Pi]

Grimaldi

Have Your Pi

Ivyana

All anyone can do is give someone the tools to make a successful poem. You can't teach someone how to be a good poet, they either have it or they don't.

I am living disproof of that statement. wink

My first attempts at poetry would make you vomit. I'd like to think I've progressed since that point, even to the point of being a good poet.

I might revise your statement to, "You can't teach someone how to be a great poet." You do hit a point where it's something beyond teaching. But I fully believe that anybody can become a good poet, with dedication and good instruction. That's a philosophy that extends to more than poetry, too.

"Good" instruction (which brings us back to "what's good"?) can be wasted on the unwilling. And nobody writes for you.

All effort, growth, and reward lies completely with the writer.

True, nobody presses the keys/grabs the pen for me. But if I had been left completely to my own devices, I would never have progressed. It was my effort and dedication that led to my growth, but the discerning eye of my colleagues and peers was key shaping that growth to be something elegant instead of something misshapen and awkward.

No, you cannot force a writer to improve. However, I hardly see that as an excuse not to try.