PL's Peak: Guide to Poetry and Critique (feedback/discuss!)

Why are you here?

I'm here for the poetry guide!	45.1%	[ 594 ]
I'm here for the critiquing guide!	18.8%	[ 247 ]
I'm here because someone else pointed me here.	6.1%	[ 80 ]
I'm here for the gold. Didn't it say it had a poll?	30.1%	[ 396 ]
Total Votes:			[ 1317 ]

[Johnny x F x]

Poetess Laureate

Johnny xFATHOMx

Poetess Laureate

Personally, I'd still like to see "the other side."

What do people find helpful from critiques? What makes you totally want a specific person to come look at your poem, vs. someone else?

specificity.

So basically, you're looking for someone who tells you "geese flying south is sort of a poor choice of imagery to describe spring" rather than someone who tells you, "your imagery seems a little misleading for the message I think you're trying to convey"?

that's exactly what i mean. i've already edited it before i post it, and unless someone's specific, i don't know what they're talking about, cause i obviously(?) already thought i had it right.

[Johnny x F x]

oh, and i also love when people ask me questions when something's unclear to them. the questions they ask let's me know HOW it's unclear.

[Poetess Laureate]

Hmm. I often try to include what I think they're trying to say and what the piece is actually saying to me, so that the writer knows exactly where the issue is.

In the geese example, I'd cite something earlier that very plainly showed this was meant to be in Spring, and point out the south confuses me since geese head the opposite direction at that time of year.

[Pirouzu]

I love your navigation thing. First time I've seen it.

[Poetess Laureate]

`Kira

I love your navigation thing. First time I've seen it.

heh heh, thanks biggrin

Feel free to jump in the discussion! heart

[Pirouzu]

The things I look for in critiques, are actually in-depth and sensible advice, quantity and suggestions/honest feedback.

And to tell the truth, I try to squander out some appreciation too. whee

[Poetess Laureate]

`Kira

The things I look for in critiques, are actually in-depth and sensible advice, quantity and suggestions/honest feedback.

And to tell the truth, I try to squander out some appreciation too. whee

By appreciation, do you mean positive feedback? I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting some -- every poem probably has at least some high point -- as long as we don't fall into the trap of only wanting pats on the back.

[Poetess Laureate]

Actually, that's a good point to bump this back up with.

Does every poem have something in it to redeem it? Or are there some that there honestly just isn't anything 'nice' to say about? If there are, what makes a poem that 'helpless' vs. something that just needs a lot of work?

[Poetess Laureate]

My personal difficulty is wading through a poem that makes me want to skim. When I critique, I want to be thorough, so I'm trying to pay attention to detail. A piece that doesn't 'have much to it' or that wholly lacks literary devices makes that troublesome and time-consuming. I sometimes miss the theme of the poem as my mind and eyes automatically speed through rather than focusing.

[Astaire]

Poetess Laureate

Actually, that's a good point to bump this back up with.

Does every poem have something in it to redeem it? Or are there some that there honestly just isn't anything 'nice' to say about? If there are, what makes a poem that 'helpless' vs. something that just needs a lot of work?

No.

Not every poem has something in it to redeem it.

For example, some poetry is just prose with line breaks: it has no imagery whatsoever, the meaning is simplistic and overdone, and there are spelling/grammatical errors everywhere.

I will say this, however: EVERY poem has the potential to be a better poem. I don't think poems necessarily deserve to be scrapped; that's up to the writer. However, there are poems that need COMPLETE rennovations. With the poem that's really prose, the poet may want to keep the general concept, but rewrite all the lines so that they contain imagery, proper grammar, and worthwhile perspectives.

In my opinion, no critic should be forced to find something nice to say about a poem when there isn't anything there.

So, what do you do when you face a helpless poem? Tell the poet EXACTLY where they went wrong. This may take a lot more time than just the blanket "You suck and there's nothing good about this poem" statement that I see many times in these situations, but at least the poet will know why critics are cringing at his or her piece. Direct these people to stickies and other helpful links (like this one) and be sure to tell them to keep writing, since they must keep writing in order to improve. Tell them that everyone has to start somewhere; just don't tell them things that aren't true in order to spare their feelings.

[Poetess Laureate]

See, I used to be a big supporter of the idea that a critic should ideally find at least something positive and something negative in every poem. It seemed to me that otherwise, it's not as helpful or as 'involved' I guess.

But I think I'm rapidly revising this idea. I've seen poems I simply cannot find anything poetic in -- the prose with line breaks as you mentioned -- and I want to be honest.

[BananaSaurus]

its harder to edit blanket statements than specific line-by-line critiques.

[Poetess Laureate]

BananaSaurus

its harder to edit blanket statements than specific line-by-line critiques.

Is a crit something that should ideally help the poet edit that particular piece, then?

To be honest, I don't tend to edit a lot. Only if the mood strikes me or I decide something would be good used for a specific purpose, so I clean it up a bit. So when I get a critique, while I definitely pay attention to everything it says, I'm usually more looking for general advice to keep in mind 'next time' than for how to revise the poem.

[Poetess Laureate]

The runaround, oh noes!

It's come to my notice or attention lately that some people have been directed to the OP/L from other places or had their threads moved here by mods -- only to be told 'this is not poetry' upon arrival.

I'm going to defend the OP/L viewpoint, since those here are the ones who, as a rule, 'deal in' poetry more than the moderator of another, random, sub-forum. However, this is an understandable source of frustration for the person who now screams, "BUT IT WAS MOVED HERE!"

Most of the time, the problem is that the piece in question is really something that belongs in a journal or perhaps a letter/e-mail to the person the writer has in mind if they feel brave. Therefore, it is not real prose OR poetry as it is not 'literary' (if you can't explain what literary or poetic devices are being used, or realize there aren't any, it's probably not something for posting on a literature forum).

Sometimes I point this out, but is there something else that might be a good approach in this situation?

[Poetess Laureate]

Added to

Line Breaks/Enjambment/Spacing

Centering is usually a poor formatting choice for a poem. Since spacing and indentations can be used to add layers of meaning and significance, we lose out on an entire potential dimension to the poem when we simply center it in its entirety.