PL's Peak: Guide to Poetry and Critique (feedback/discuss!)

Why are you here?

I'm here for the poetry guide!	45.1%	[ 594 ]
I'm here for the critiquing guide!	18.8%	[ 247 ]
I'm here because someone else pointed me here.	6.1%	[ 80 ]
I'm here for the gold. Didn't it say it had a poll?	30.1%	[ 396 ]
Total Votes:			[ 1317 ]

[Poetess Laureate]

Johnny xFATHOMx

Astaire

Sounds like sound advice to me. heart

What do I do if I suspect that English is not the poet's first language? How do I go about that (and how do I avoid insulting a native English speaker that just happens to have really awful spelling and grammar? eek )

i say, when in doubt, behave as if the poet is a non-native speaker and let the native with awful spelling BE insulted.

Except that not only is it, again, irrelevant -- how does that help? Unless by that you simply mean "proceed to correct them." Then I definitely agree, because while certain things may be an explanation (i.e. not being a native speaker explains the poor spelling or grammar), they are not an excuse (as it is still possible to improve, obviously).

[Johnny x F x]

i meant correct them and then ask them if they're a native speaker. if they aren't, then fine and good. if they are, they deserve the shame of being asked that question.

[Poetess Laureate]

Time for another good idea/bad idea.

Good idea: Admiring a poet.
Bad idea: Plagiarism.

One of my poems has been plagiarized, admitted to in this thread. The plagiarizer also has the Gaia account Dark_Eradicator_Warlock. Both names have been included in the reports to the mods.

Discussion: What is a good response to plagiarism?

Let's be frank: it's the risk we take posting, regardless. I would advise never posting anything that would utterly "kill" you to have stolen. (For example, personally I don't post anything I plan to submit professionally for any purpose).

When it does happen, even if you take that precaution, it's still annoying -- especially if the person was someone thought to be a friend. Definitely report it -- and challenge the mods to let you know what action was taken or at least make sure action is taken. This is the sort of complaint that deserves to be taken seriously and given priority. (Rest assured the mods generally are on top of things, but admittedly busy; be patient.)

I've also settled for a name and shame -- linking to the thread and admission (or other proof such as your submission of it having an earlier time stamp).

Call the plagiarizer on it -- whether you're the actual writer or someone who knows the work is theirs. Make sure the original writer is aware so that they can take action.

[mazarati]

I have a question. What would be better for a fledgling poet, writing in free verse or using forms?

[Poetess Laureate]

mazarati

I have a question. What would be better for a fledgling poet, writing in free verse or using forms?

That's actually an excellent question, and since I love both I can give a mostly unbiased answer.

First of all, free verse and form reinforce each other. When you strengthen one, the other will become stronger as well. However, strong imagery and poetic devices are absolutely necessary to all poetry regardless of whether it's a form or not -- and adding in a form adds a lot more stress.

I'd probably suggest working with free verse first just to solidify imagery and technique. Once your poetry is solid, you'll start seeing more easily HOW to fit it into forms.

[Johnny x F x]

`Kira

The Good Poetry Critic:


* Must be a good poet (as in bullet one) in order to verify his/her advice.

well, Edgar Allen Poe's poetry was horrible, but his essays on the craft are SPOT on. he was self-admittedly a much better poetry critic than poet, and really only published his poetry because there was a demand for it (for the masses, so to speak) and he needed to support his opium habit.

[Poetess Laureate]

Johnny xFATHOMx

`Kira

The Good Poetry Critic:


* Must be a good poet (as in bullet one) in order to verify his/her advice.

well, Edgar Allen Poe's poetry was horrible, but his essays on the craft are SPOT on. he was self-admittedly a much better poetry critic than poet, and really only published his poetry because there was a demand for it (for the masses, so to speak) and he needed to support his opium habit.

Yeah, honestly poetic ability may or may not be a reflection of critiquing ability. They require different strengths.

That said, someone who is able to write is more likely to also be able to identify what is or isn't working in someone else's piece, and someone who is able to critique is more likely able to put those points into practice in their own poetry.

[Johnny x F x]

Poetess Laureate

Johnny xFATHOMx

`Kira

The Good Poetry Critic:


* Must be a good poet (as in bullet one) in order to verify his/her advice.

well, Edgar Allen Poe's poetry was horrible, but his essays on the craft are SPOT on. he was self-admittedly a much better poetry critic than poet, and really only published his poetry because there was a demand for it (for the masses, so to speak) and he needed to support his opium habit.

Yeah, honestly poetic ability may or may not be a reflection of critiquing ability. They require different strengths.

That said, someone who is able to write is more likely to also be able to identify what is or isn't working in someone else's piece, and someone who is able to critique is more likely able to put those points into practice in their own poetry.

agreed. i just disagreed with the "must" part of it.

[Poetess Laureate]

Johnny xFATHOMx

agreed. i just disagreed with the "must" part of it.

Right. It's only a "more likely" thing.

[Johnny x F x]

FullMetalAlchamyst

This sucks, this is nothing but Spam

quiet you, we're working here.

[Poetess Laureate]

FullMetalAlchamyst

This sucks, this is nothing but Spam

This is a discussion thread open and available to all, but that is on the understanding that all who come will contribute to the discussion, whether by asking/answering questions or by other forms of participation.

Please refrain from this manner of response in future; a further reply in this vein will earn a ban from the thread, which is something I have so far not had to enact and hope not to find necessary.

[Poetess Laureate]

Personally, I'd still like to see "the other side."

What do people find helpful from critiques? What makes you totally want a specific person to come look at your poem, vs. someone else?

[Johnny x F x]

Poetess Laureate

Personally, I'd still like to see "the other side."

What do people find helpful from critiques? What makes you totally want a specific person to come look at your poem, vs. someone else?

specificity.

[Poetess Laureate]

Johnny xFATHOMx

Poetess Laureate

Personally, I'd still like to see "the other side."

What do people find helpful from critiques? What makes you totally want a specific person to come look at your poem, vs. someone else?

specificity.

So basically, you're looking for someone who tells you "geese flying south is sort of a poor choice of imagery to describe spring" rather than someone who tells you, "your imagery seems a little misleading for the message I think you're trying to convey"?