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doc olden
["Qyp"] And what you mean tailed-beast skill of other Shinobi? Do you mean THROUGH shinobi?


I said that Roshi could not produce the Lava in and of himself given it was conferred upon him by his particular tailed beast, hence tailed beast skill. Bee is not able to spit up ink and make ink clones in and of himself, neither is Naruto able to heal himself of his wounds so easily without the aid of Kurama's chakra. Such abilities possessed by shinobi insofar as they are the host of a particular jinchuuriki conferring said abilities are called tailed beast skills. However, there are others who are able to do it in and of themselves, as I said in my earlier post, e.g. Kurotsuchi, Dodai, and Mei.You forgot Kabuto and the first Hokage can heal themselves and Sai can make ink clones.
That may be a bit presumptuous considering evidence to the contrary. Gaara, long thought to be able to use sand solely from Shukaku, had even greater control after the Bijuui was taken out. Not saying your wrong so much as saying it would behoove you to keep an open mind about that stuff.
Not really, not in this case, guys.

Hashirama and Kabuto were not jinchuuriki; they're healing abilities stem primarily from their backgrounds, Hashirama becoming suddenly the elixir of life in this series and Kabuto's from his background as a medical ninja. As for Sai, he uses ink clones given his style of combat, which involves the classical Japanese drawings of his. As a result, I don't expect Sai to be spitting up ink anytime soon.


Naruto and Killer Bee, on the other hand are able to heal rapidly and produce ink clones respectively because of their status as jinchuuriki of the 9 and 8 Tails, respectively. Kurama has always been stated as the source of Naruto's vast chakra and healing and we all know Killer Bee has spat up ink to write rhymes when without a pen; they could only do those things because Kurama has a ton of chakra and Gyuuki is part octopus.

Hashirama, though supposedly not having needed to weave hand seals to heal himself, is presumably still not as instantaneous or far reaching. And even if he is, this is still quite a fairly new development, (one I feel was premature in its revelation). Kabuto, on the other hand I know for a fact is not reflexive and instantaneous, and what I mean by reflexive is that one does not need to think about healing themselves in order for their body to be healed, which Kabuto must and has to do (given he has nothing special helping him along).

As for Gaara, I've always been against him having continued use of the sand after his sealing. We never got an explanation until the fight with his deceased father (which I saw yesterday, and was quite perturbing): apparently the "will" of his mother was for him to always be able to control the sand. Furthermore, he was the only jinchuuriki known and shown to retain his ability of something (once thought) tied to the tailed beast, as the others weren't critical to the story. The revelation that his mother's will enables him to retain the power of sand, to me, is invalid given that it came so far after its appearance and just doesn't cut in the logic department.

Yeah, sorry guys, not changing my position.
The thing is, everything you've said is, though logical, ultimately circumstantial.

The Uzamaki Clan have been known to have an increased longevity and as someone already mentioned, other individuals have performed similar feats such as creating ink clones or healing instantaneously.
I think the evidence shows that being a jinchuriki potentially expounds upon a person's natural ability but we have no real evidence that states otherwise. Yes, that seems like a likely case but there is no real proof that jinchuriki get their abilities solely from the tailed beast inside them.

Again, we only have one source of reference to go by and that is Gaara himself. Whatever your feelings about it, that doesn't make him any less able to use sand. Not only that but there's further evidence supporting this considering the Third and Fourth Kazekage were similarly able to control sand, albeit to an arguably weaker degree.

My point was that there isn't much evidence to say that any one of these ninja could not do the same feats they've done at a lower level if they were not fueled by a super-charged generator.

I just reread the last chapter and I realized that Kakashi could have simply killed Obito when he punched him in the stomach. Like he could have literally done anything at that point considering he had apparently been given all his chakra back.

Also who else thinks the Kyuubi's got to be running low on gas some time soon? I mean his chakra has been the main weapon throughout the entire war since its inception. Literally from the moment Naruto and Bee left the island, the Kyuubi's been funneling huge amounts of chakra into Naruto. I mean he made a Tailed Beast Ball that equaled the combined power of 7 Tailed Beast and then made two more! And that's counting all the other S level techniques that he's produced during the battles.
ChristandJackel
The thing is, everything you've said is, though logical, ultimately circumstantial.

The Uzamaki Clan have been known to have an increased longevity and as someone already mentioned, other individuals have performed similar feats such as creating ink clones or healing instantaneously.
I think the evidence shows that being a jinchuriki potentially expounds upon a person's natural ability but we have no real evidence that states otherwise. Yes, that seems like a likely case but there is no real proof that jinchuriki get their abilities solely from the tailed beast inside them.

Again, we only have one source of reference to go by and that is Gaara himself. Whatever your feelings about it, that doesn't make him any less able to use sand. Not only that but there's further evidence supporting this considering the Third and Fourth Kazekage were similarly able to control sand, albeit to an arguably weaker degree.

My point was that there isn't much evidence to say that any one of these ninja could not do the same feats they've done at a lower level if they were not fueled by a super-charged generator.

I just reread the last chapter and I realized that Kakashi could have simply killed Obito when he punched him in the stomach. Like he could have literally done anything at that point considering he had apparently been given all his chakra back.

Also who else thinks the Kyuubi's got to be running low on gas some time soon? I mean his chakra has been the main weapon throughout the entire war since its inception. Literally from the moment Naruto and Bee left the island, the Kyuubi's been funneling huge amounts of chakra into Naruto. I mean he made a Tailed Beast Ball that equaled the combined power of 7 Tailed Beast and then made two more! And that's counting all the other S level techniques that he's produced during the battles.
Actually they both controlled metal not sand. The third used iron and the forth used gold. As for the last chapter your right. Instead of punching he could have used a kunai.
PotionsPet's avatar

Romantic Lunatic

Azriel_eph210


I'll admit that I enjoyed the "good ole" 1-2 punch that Kakashi delivered, though! The simplicity of it made me smile. smile


Shows it doesn't always take a frikkin water dragon to make someone drool blood. He had to have put some muscle behind it... though even without a battle going on, a floating torso would be freaky enough to wail on.

---

After seeing him use his sand jutsu after Shuukaku, I figured that it was either some mark left on him after having had that power in in for so long and surviving it being removed. He just wouldn't have the power behind it that he did, was my thought.

But then his father had those eye markings appear that I always thought were make-up/anime insomnia bags on Gaara, so I figured it was something hereditary or regional that got boosted by his bijuu.

Some kind of modified Earth-style, being they live in the desert. Someone had to have tried to make a sand jutsu. Or since his father's was gold, a jutsu using particles.
--
I was waiting for Kakashi to do something a little more lethal than gut punches, considering how vulnerable Obito made himself.. but I guess it's the same as how Obito isn't really jumping him, just roughing him up and repeatedly throwing him into that other dimension like a holding cell.
obito doesn't want to kill kakashi. he just wants things to be the way they were supposed to be. kakashi understands that.
ChristandJackel
The thing is, everything you've said is, though logical, ultimately circumstantial.

The Uzamaki Clan have been known to have an increased longevity and as someone already mentioned, other individuals have performed similar feats such as creating ink clones or healing instantaneously.
I think the evidence shows that being a jinchuriki potentially expounds upon a person's natural ability but we have no real evidence that states otherwise. Yes, that seems like a likely case but there is no real proof that jinchuriki get their abilities solely from the tailed beast inside them.

Again, we only have one source of reference to go by and that is Gaara himself. Whatever your feelings about it, that doesn't make him any less able to use sand. Not only that but there's further evidence supporting this considering the Third and Fourth Kazekage were similarly able to control sand, albeit to an arguably weaker degree.

My point was that there isn't much evidence to say that any one of these ninja could not do the same feats they've done at a lower level if they were not fueled by a super-charged generator.

I just reread the last chapter and I realized that Kakashi could have simply killed Obito when he punched him in the stomach. Like he could have literally done anything at that point considering he had apparently been given all his chakra back.

Also who else thinks the Kyuubi's got to be running low on gas some time soon? I mean his chakra has been the main weapon throughout the entire war since its inception. Literally from the moment Naruto and Bee left the island, the Kyuubi's been funneling huge amounts of chakra into Naruto. I mean he made a Tailed Beast Ball that equaled the combined power of 7 Tailed Beast and then made two more! And that's counting all the other S level techniques that he's produced during the battles.




No it is not.

#1: I'm not just talking about Naruto and Gaara. The other jinchuuriki have been shown using techniques that are not drawn from within themselves. Do you really think Killer Bee can just spit up ink simply because that was something he could do? Is it just a coincidence that his tailed beast is part octopus?

Back to Naruto. Before the Uzumaki name had any significance, what was Naruto's accelerated healing always attributed to? Kurama. Hell, Kakashi said this, not me. And by the way, his status as an Uzumaki has/had nothing to do with accelerated healing so much as longevity and survival. Case and point: Kushina managed to withstand Kurama's extraction because she was an Uzumaki, but when you saw her after said extraction she was physically worn out.

Gaara's case is not circumstantial when you consider that he was not related to the 3rd Kazekage, and both he and his successor studied the Shukaku in order to learn its sand-manipulating abilities, whereas Gaara was implanted with the Shukaku so he had firsthand access to said sand-manipulating abilities. Ergo, when that firsthand access was removed, he, too, should have had no access to those abilities, all the more so when you realize there was no reason given as to how or why he had continued access and use of the sand.
Doc Olden


Doc your kind of missing my point. The ultimate point I'm making is we have no tangible evidence that says a shinobi loses some of their abilities after their tailed beast has been extracted. And this is what I'm going by. Is Bee's ability to spit ink directly related to the Hachibi? Most likely. Is Naruto's accelerated healing due to Kyuubi? Probably. However those aren't definitely yeses. Can Gaara use sand after Shukaku was extracted from him? Yes. Now we may not like it but that's the fact of the matter. Everything else is purely circumstantial.

In regards to the other Jinchuriki, that too is circumstantial evidence you're presenting since we've never seen any of them fight without their tailed beast inside them nor have we heard any of their tailed beast say that they exclusively were behind them performing certain feats.
Here's an idea while I'm playing devil's advocate:
The reason why those Jinchuriki were chosen, besides political reasoning, was because they had incredible abilities. Otherwise they could have literally scooped up any random villager and just placed the demon inside of them.

As for the Uzamaki and Naruto in particular, you surprise me Doc. For one, its been stated time and time again in the series that characters in the manga have been wrong or purposely lied to. Wasn't you not too long ago that said Minato was wrong for saying Obito's Kamui was better in time-space warping than him? And wasn't it you that said that Haku was wrong when he said that Sasuke would have beaten him the longer their fight had gone on? And you only just finished saying that everyone was wrong to say that Gaara got his abilities from Shukaku. The point is characters can be wrong especially when dealing with a situation they don't have 100% understanding of. Kakashi has never been a Jinchuriki. He has never witnessed a Jinchuriki utilize abilities after losing their tailed beast besides Gaara, years after making the earlier formed statement. He has never faced off with and examined the full abilities of a tailed beast ever. So what makes him the ultimate knowledge on tailed beast, jinchuriki's, or their powers?
So I just wanted to say that.

In regards to Uzamaki, lets point out some things. Firstly, Naruto has already been stated to have some form of accelerated healing. This means he heals faster than other people. Yet there have been many times were Naruto has nearly died and hasn't fully been 100% for a few hours or days. His fight with Sasuke showed him beaten so badly that even after some time had passed, he was barely alive.
So... if even a character that has been noted to have accelerated healing could not be completely rejuvenated after a few hours time, how can you say Kushina could be any better? If anything, the fact that has been the only "legit" survivor of a tailed beast extraction goes more to show that she, as an Uzamaki, does have accelerated healing even after the tailed beast was taken from her. Naruto has stated many times that he could have died from certain attacks and has been in near death situations despite having accelerated healing so a person with that trait can still die. Again, the extraction process has been stated and shown to kill the individual the tailed beast is inside. The fact that Kushina not only survived, but was able to help restrain the Kyuubi makes it seem more likely that accelerated healing is an Uzamaki trait.
Qyp's avatar

Blessed Lunatic

So...

I can't be bothered reading all that stuff...

But do people get that the Uchiha and Senju are powerful only because their abilities sprouted from the influence of the Juubi's chakra?

You know how the Four Symbols seal on Naruto is made to slowly leak out a little bit of Kurama's originally to help Naruto, and all that? Well, I would say that no seal could hold the full percentage of the Juubi's chakra, the leakage would have been influential to everything the Rikudo Sennin touched. I bet his wife died after the youngest son, just due to the overwhelming power of the Juubi. If the Rikudo even used a women to make his kids... I reckon they just accessed chakra that he needed to release, and decided to see if he could actually create people. After that, he got the idea to make the Juubi into 9 separate beings to help spread it's devastating power and keep the world fro being turned into dust...

So the reason why both clans can control Bijuu... is because they basically are... probably why Uzumaki make good Jinchuuriki.

Also, a friend and I have discussed if not just the Uzumaki and possibly the Hyuuga are split of clans of the Rukido's children. It is probably all Kekkei Genkai clans or persons that have DNA of the Rikudo Sennin himself, though I believe it was said in the comic that he traveled around helping people discover how to use and control their chakra, so we could be mistaken.
PotionsPet's avatar

Romantic Lunatic

Chapter out.
Azriel_eph210's avatar

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I'm not sure how I feel about Madara giving this group a compliment. He basically said, "Hmm...these guys are still alive...they're better than that bunch of Kage that I disposed of earlier..." Take this with a grain of salt; I do believe Naruto and Bee have Kage-level strength, but I don't know about the group's strength as a whole...especially with the addition of Tobi in the battle.

Then, again, Madara definitely hasn't been going all out like he did against the Kage. Thoughts?
Qyp's avatar

Blessed Lunatic

Azriel_eph210
I'm not sure how I feel about Madara giving this group a compliment. He basically said, "Hmm...these guys are still alive...they're better than that bunch of Kage that I disposed of earlier..." Take this with a grain of salt; I do believe Naruto and Bee have Kage-level strength, but I don't know about the group's strength as a whole...especially with the addition of Tobi in the battle.

Then, again, Madara definitely hasn't been going all out like he did against the Kage. Thoughts?

1. Madara went all out on the Kage to KILL THEM. Because he didn't care about them.

2. He can't kill the Jinchuuriki... duh. Going "all out" is silly if he needs them alive. I would say the Mokuryuu is close enough to going all out though, since it seems to be stronger then this.

3. Comparing their fights don't make sense.
Qyp's avatar

Blessed Lunatic

The Juubi is kind merged into the ground... by the looks of it...
Qyp
So...

I can't be bothered reading all that stuff...

But do people get that the Uchiha and Senju are powerful only because their abilities sprouted from the influence of the Juubi's chakra?

You know how the Four Symbols seal on Naruto is made to slowly leak out a little bit of Kurama's originally to help Naruto, and all that? Well, I would say that no seal could hold the full percentage of the Juubi's chakra, the leakage would have been influential to everything the Rikudo Sennin touched. I bet his wife died after the youngest son, just due to the overwhelming power of the Juubi. If the Rikudo even used a women to make his kids... I reckon they just accessed chakra that he needed to release, and decided to see if he could actually create people. After that, he got the idea to make the Juubi into 9 separate beings to help spread it's devastating power and keep the world fro being turned into dust...

So the reason why both clans can control Bijuu... is because they basically are... probably why Uzumaki make good Jinchuuriki.

Also, a friend and I have discussed if not just the Uzumaki and possibly the Hyuuga are split of clans of the Rukido's children. It is probably all Kekkei Genkai clans or persons that have DNA of the Rikudo Sennin himself, though I believe it was said in the comic that he traveled around helping people discover how to use and control their chakra, so we could be mistaken.


senju longevity and uchiha eye are traits directly inherited from rikudo sennin. uzumaki are blood relatives of the senju and thus inherited the longevity from him as well.

reikudo sennin had controll over the juubi, and the senju and uchiha probably inherited that as well.

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