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Who was more of a hero?

Severus Snape 0.4452380952381 44.5% [ 187 ]
Itachi Uchiha 0.5547619047619 55.5% [ 233 ]
Total Votes:[ 420 ]
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I'm gonna have to go with Snape because he died protecting(through his eyes) a whiny little s**t that he hated.

At least Itachi loved Sasuke, and when things were darkest he could remember he was doing all of this for his adorable little brother. Snape had no such comforts.
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That is a tough one.
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iKarnezar's avatar

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itachi.
the whole WORLD new about the uchiha clan & the slaughter. he in no way traded teams or associated with the good side at all throughout his life.

snape was considered good to some. not all but some.

itachi was way more loathed than snape would ever be. just because harry is a little whiny p***k, doesnt mean snape was thought of like that by every other kid. but he did suck.



The whole world also knew that Snape had been a Death Eater who defected. And although he wasn't well liked, people tolerated him because Dumbledore put so much faith in him.

Though I'm quite sure after he killed Dumbledore, nobody liked him apart from the Death Eaters lol
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itachi.
the whole WORLD new about the uchiha clan & the slaughter. he in no way traded teams or associated with the good side at all throughout his life.

snape was considered good to some. not all but some.

itachi was way more loathed than snape would ever be. just because harry is a little whiny p***k, doesnt mean snape was thought of like that by every other kid. but he did suck.
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    personally i think Itachi had it tougher
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What about the seventh book? when Albus was dead and nothing more then a painting and Snape was Headmaster and had absolute power, then why did he still obey and help Potter? what was there to gain that he already had? nothing. He had all he needed and if he was truly evil then he would happily have not only tortured Luna and Ginny instead of sending them to Hagrid but he wouldn't have bothered duping Bella and the dark lord into thinking the real sword was in the vault and not have given it to Potter. There were dozen's of things through out the book that he didn't need to do that he did to help others.


Because he hated Voldemort more than anything else. And he trusted Dumbledore so much, he could never bring himself to betray him.

xfire-spiritx
'he never betrayed the trust of the Death Eaters' kind of an important thing when one is a spy.


I meant that the Death Eaters never shunned him the way Lily did (however deserving it was).

xfire-spiritx
Of course he felt guilty. That's a human emotion. And the fact that he felt anything at all and became a spy and everything he did just shows how 'good' he is.


Well yeah, he did love Lily, there's no way he wouldn't have felt something. It just so happened that Lily was good, and therefore, Snape aligned himself with her and also became good.

xfire-spiritx
And what acceptance or thanks did he get from the 'good side? what did the 'good' side ever really do for him. Let's see: abuse (parents), bully and harass, almost kill (marauders/school days), steal, hurt, concuss, verbally abuse, use, treat like garbage, and generally abuse (Dumbledore, the trio, Sirius black, Lupin, ect... I can give every example from the British versions of the HP series) did he ever get thanks while living? no. Did anyone ask if he was OK when he was concussed? no. Did anyone ask him if he was ever OK or if he wanted to stay for dinner or actually treat him like he was more then some tool to be used and thrown away? no.

So you tell me what reason he had for doing anything for the 'good' side once Lily died and after he saved Potters life in first year thus no longer owing the life dept to his father.


Immense guilt. That's what kept him going forward, it was all for Lily. He basically gave up on his own life and devoted everything for her, after she died.

xfire-spiritx
Dumbledore didn't 'save' him. All he did was offer the Potter's protection in return for Snape's spying and even then he failed epically. Snape had absoutley no positive reason to work for Dumbles or the supposed 'good' side.


Had it not been for Dumbledore, he would've been thrown into Azkaban. Also, Dumbledore could've killed Snape when he came asking for help.

xfire-spiritx
So why would this man, who you are trying to tell me is so selfish, be considered selfish if by definition he can not be selfish? what selfish or even what sane man would do any of the spying or the things that Snape did to help win the war? I wouldn't and I highly doubt many people would. After all, 16+ years of suffering and getting nothing and not even an ounce of happiness sounds like a crap deal.

The definition of selfish from the dictionary:

1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.
characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.


I don't see how doing things for others and Lily falls into that category.


He only did what he did because of Lily. It wasn't because Lily was an innocent victim of Voldemorts that Snape decided to avenge her. It was because of his love for her. Had Lily been a Death Eater, and Snape a member of the Order, and his actions would cause her to be sent to Azkaban, Snape would've joined the Death Eaters to oppose the Order.

He doesn't care about right and wrong. He only cares about his own love for Lily, an escape, if you will, from the shitty life he was living.

He didn't decide to spy for Dumbledore to save the Wizarding world, he only wanted to redeem himself and avenge the love of his life. Whether it be good or bad. It just so happened that Lily was a good person, and therefore, Snape became good.

xfire-spiritx
Now don't get me wrong. I think Itachi is a hero too. I think they are both hero's. And honestly, I think they, in there own way, are tied. It's a tie. I think Snape but you have you're opinion. Don't try to convince me otherwise because i've done this song and dance with Snape haters millions of times before and I can go for days about this. So for your sanity and mine I just say we agree to disagree.


Snapes actually my second favorite character (behind the batshit crazy Gellert Grindelwald), and at first, I was practically in love with him because of what he did.

But as time went on, and I gained a more logical understanding of him, I realized he was not as amazing as I first thought. He wasn't a bringer of justice working in the shadows; he was just a living representation of Lily's desires, which was a world-free Voldemort, and Harry alive.



I have no idea why Snape fans, hell, even myself always have to go through a giant days long 'debate' or whatever just to justify our choice or why we have to tell why we like Snape. It get's kinda old after the millionth time. I mean doesn't it totally defeat the purpose of asking people if all your going to do is force us to tell you why we think, what we think, and debate with us while forcing your opinion instead of going "ok, it's their opinion and i'm OK with that because I asked?". but since you still wanna talk then let's talk.

'Because he hated Voldemort more than anything else. And he trusted Dumbledore so much, he could never bring himself to betray him.'

Do you listen to what you type? so he's not a hero because he didn't betray the 'good' side and protected people for Lily and because he got nothing in return and didn't have to? wow so what is a hero then? a perfect pretty princess who does no wrong, has no struggles, and just does what ever he's told? who's always doing the right thing because he's told its right instead of fighting his inner self and struggling to do the right thing despite getting nothing in return? if that's a hero then I think that's extremely pathetic and bland. No, wait a hero is apparently Itachi, according to you and I'm gonna assume you will tell me why ad nausim even though what they did was pretty much the same. Itachi did what he did for Sasuke and Kanoha but he killed many,many people, and did very bad things for those things.

'I meant that the Death Eaters never shunned him the way Lily did (however deserving it was).'

Lily didn't shun him, she bullied him right back "I should wash my pants if I were you, Snivellus." she pourposely took a jab at his poverty and joined in with the marauders. for a 'friend' to make fun of your poverty when she knows that you are poor and to bully right back with the group when she knows he's being bullied is beyond low. She then never talked to him again and started dating potter, the man who was a bully and bullied behind her back. Snape snapped because he's a boy being stripped and being defended by a chick more then a little hulimating. Oh and did I add that she was struggling not to smile as he was being stripped? such a great friend. Im not saying what he did was right, it wasn't, but I can get why he did it. And Im not going to debate this point so please don't bring it up.

The death eaters did something for and to him that no one, not even Lily did: they treated him like family, like a person who mattered, and as you said, didn't shun or bully him. For an abused and bullied kid that is a huge thing to have such acceptance. The death eaters sure sounded like a golden apple. If I was in his shoes, I probably would have done what he did too.



"Immense guilt. That's what kept him going forward, it was all for Lily. He basically gave up on his own life and devoted everything for her, after she died."

Sounds like a hero to me. No selfish man would do that, no matter how much you think so. If guilt and a memory is all that kept him going then goddamn that is one hell of a human. He kept fighting even though he felt to good or happiness and died alone without an once of love. That is extremely tragic.

'Had Lily been a Death Eater, and Snape a member of the Order, and his actions would cause her to be sent to Azkaban, Snape would've joined the Death Eaters to oppose the Order."

Wait, why would he go to the order? didn't you say previously that if lily was evil then so would snape? wouldn't going to the or being part of the order be a good thing and thus totally destroy your previous 'point?'

But instead he went to Dumbledore and instead of Dumbles protecting them they died. So What did he gain again and what reason, other then a memory did he have for staying? money? no. Respect? no. Friends? no. Happiness? no. Etc. Why do you keep bringing up this 'if Lily was evil' thing? why does a 'what if' down play anything he did? Would it be fair if I did the same with Itachi? no.

"Had it not been for Dumbledore, he would've been thrown into Azkaban. Also, Dumbledore could've killed Snape when he came asking for help."

Can you prove the Azkaban thing with a direct quote from the books, or a Interview from JK?
Dumbledore could have killed him but why kill a man willing to do what ever you want? Dumbles is not stupid, hes going to milk snape for all he's worth and then abandon him when he's no longer useful. Plus I fail to see how more of your 'what if's' have to do with anything regarding what snape did for the good.

"He doesn't care about right and wrong. He only cares about his own love for Lily, an escape, if you will, from the shitty life he was living"

If he didn't care about right and wrong then why feel guilty, why waste 16+ years and why spy? kinda get's retarded when said person is doing way too much right and your trying to convince me that he doesn't care so why care at all? An abused man chose the side who was abusing him and giving him nothing over the dark side who was treating him well and offering him everything. The fact that he walked away and opposed that side for a memory pretty much points to an astounding, if not so sane man, who has a bit of a grasp between good and bad.

"He didn't decide to spy for Dumbledore to save the Wizarding world, he only wanted to redeem himself and avenge the love of his life. Whether it be good or bad. It just so happened that Lily was a good person, and therefore, Snape became good."

But he still saved it. Should it matter how he got there? no. I fail to see why Snape's reasons or past are always down sizing his immense achievements when it doesn't work that way with anyone else. It get's kind of annoying after a while. So you're telling me that the fact that he did so much good and suffered and wasted so much for the world, potter, and Lily doesn't mean anything or is downsized because of how he got good and whom he was doing it for? wow.


Don't get me wrong though. Snape is not perfect, he's so far from it. Snape is an emotionally stunted man who is mentally stuck at the age of 19 years old because he never got to develop. He's a depressed man and a terrible teacher. He's in a job he so clearly hates, he's doing things he doesn't want to do yet he still does it. Dumbledore doesn't seem to let him recover and get over Lily (if he did then he could just leave and the war would have been lost)

"Snapes actually my second favorite character (behind the batshit crazy Gellert Grindelwald), and at first, I was practically in love with him because of what he did.

But as time went on, and I gained a more logical understanding of him, I realized he was not as amazing as I first thought. He wasn't a bringer of justice working in the shadows; he was just a living representation of Lily's desires, which was a world-free Voldemort, and Harry alive."

No. You just realized that he didn't fit YOUR definition of what YOU perceived as a hero.That's the problem with this question. Everyone has a different preception of what they think constitutes or makes someone a hero, that the answer and reason will be different for all.I think Snape is a hero because of what I think constitutes as a hero and what I think defines one as a hero, you obviously think differently. Now can we PLEASE stop this discussion? you will not change my view and I wont yours so Im asking you politely to please drop the convo.
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xfire-spiritx
What about the seventh book? when Albus was dead and nothing more then a painting and Snape was Headmaster and had absolute power, then why did he still obey and help Potter? what was there to gain that he already had? nothing. He had all he needed and if he was truly evil then he would happily have not only tortured Luna and Ginny instead of sending them to Hagrid but he wouldn't have bothered duping Bella and the dark lord into thinking the real sword was in the vault and not have given it to Potter. There were dozen's of things through out the book that he didn't need to do that he did to help others.


Because he hated Voldemort more than anything else. And he trusted Dumbledore so much, he could never bring himself to betray him.

xfire-spiritx
'he never betrayed the trust of the Death Eaters' kind of an important thing when one is a spy.


I meant that the Death Eaters never shunned him the way Lily did (however deserving it was).

xfire-spiritx
Of course he felt guilty. That's a human emotion. And the fact that he felt anything at all and became a spy and everything he did just shows how 'good' he is.


Well yeah, he did love Lily, there's no way he wouldn't have felt something. It just so happened that Lily was good, and therefore, Snape aligned himself with her and also became good.

xfire-spiritx
And what acceptance or thanks did he get from the 'good side? what did the 'good' side ever really do for him. Let's see: abuse (parents), bully and harass, almost kill (marauders/school days), steal, hurt, concuss, verbally abuse, use, treat like garbage, and generally abuse (Dumbledore, the trio, Sirius black, Lupin, ect... I can give every example from the British versions of the HP series) did he ever get thanks while living? no. Did anyone ask if he was OK when he was concussed? no. Did anyone ask him if he was ever OK or if he wanted to stay for dinner or actually treat him like he was more then some tool to be used and thrown away? no.

So you tell me what reason he had for doing anything for the 'good' side once Lily died and after he saved Potters life in first year thus no longer owing the life dept to his father.


Immense guilt. That's what kept him going forward, it was all for Lily. He basically gave up on his own life and devoted everything for her, after she died.

xfire-spiritx
Dumbledore didn't 'save' him. All he did was offer the Potter's protection in return for Snape's spying and even then he failed epically. Snape had absoutley no positive reason to work for Dumbles or the supposed 'good' side.


Had it not been for Dumbledore, he would've been thrown into Azkaban. Also, Dumbledore could've killed Snape when he came asking for help.

xfire-spiritx
So why would this man, who you are trying to tell me is so selfish, be considered selfish if by definition he can not be selfish? what selfish or even what sane man would do any of the spying or the things that Snape did to help win the war? I wouldn't and I highly doubt many people would. After all, 16+ years of suffering and getting nothing and not even an ounce of happiness sounds like a crap deal.

The definition of selfish from the dictionary:

1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.
characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.


I don't see how doing things for others and Lily falls into that category.


He only did what he did because of Lily. It wasn't because Lily was an innocent victim of Voldemorts that Snape decided to avenge her. It was because of his love for her. Had Lily been a Death Eater, and Snape a member of the Order, and his actions would cause her to be sent to Azkaban, Snape would've joined the Death Eaters to oppose the Order.

He doesn't care about right and wrong. He only cares about his own love for Lily, an escape, if you will, from the shitty life he was living.

He didn't decide to spy for Dumbledore to save the Wizarding world, he only wanted to redeem himself and avenge the love of his life. Whether it be good or bad. It just so happened that Lily was a good person, and therefore, Snape became good.

xfire-spiritx
Now don't get me wrong. I think Itachi is a hero too. I think they are both hero's. And honestly, I think they, in there own way, are tied. It's a tie. I think Snape but you have you're opinion. Don't try to convince me otherwise because i've done this song and dance with Snape haters millions of times before and I can go for days about this. So for your sanity and mine I just say we agree to disagree.


Snapes actually my second favorite character (behind the batshit crazy Gellert Grindelwald), and at first, I was practically in love with him because of what he did.

But as time went on, and I gained a more logical understanding of him, I realized he was not as amazing as I first thought. He wasn't a bringer of justice working in the shadows; he was just a living representation of Lily's desires, which was a world-free Voldemort, and Harry alive.
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Snape.

Its not selfish if you are doing things that arn't for yourself. If snape was so selfish then what did he gain in those years of serving Albus, Spying, and protecting Potter? nothing.

He went into this full well knowing that he wasn't getting jack squat except for having to eventually teach and protect a stupid kid who doesn't know how to think before he acts.

Itachi had a crap life, Im not arguing that but in some ways Snape had it worse. All the dude wanted was a thank you from Dumbles or some acceptance and love and he never got it. sad



It was selfish because he only did it for Lily. He only wants acceptance, and when he couldn't get it from Lily, he tried to get it from the Death Eaters. The only reason Lily ranked higher was because Snape still felt guilty about what he did, whereas he never betrayed the trust of the Death Eaters.

He doesn't care about the wizarding world, or saving muggle-borns, or anything else really. All he cares about is Lily, and doing what he can to save her legacy. Coincidentally, the only person he seems to respect is Dumbledore, who is the only person that can save him.

Although he's doing it all for Lily, there's no sense of justice or heroics behind it. If Lily was evil, then Snape would be evil.


What about the seventh book? when Albus was dead and nothing more then a painting and Snape was Headmaster and had absolute power, then why did he still obey and help Potter? what was there to gain that he already had? nothing. He had all he needed and if he was truly evil then he would happily have not only tortured Luna and Ginny instead of sending them to Hagrid but he wouldn't have bothered duping Bella and the dark lord into thinking the real sword was in the vault and not have given it to Potter. There were dozen's of things through out the book that he didn't need to do that he did to help others.

'he never betrayed the trust of the Death Eaters' kind of an important thing when one is a spy.

Of course he felt guilty. That's a human emotion. And the fact that he felt anything at all and became a spy and everything he did just shows how 'good' he is.

And what acceptance or thanks did he get from the 'good side? what did the 'good' side ever really do for him. Let's see: abuse (parents), bully and harass, almost kill (marauders/school days), steal, hurt, concuss, verbally abuse, use, treat like garbage, and generally abuse (Dumbledore, the trio, Sirius black, Lupin, ect... I can give every example from the British versions of the HP series) did he ever get thanks while living? no. Did anyone ask if he was OK when he was concussed? no. Did anyone ask him if he was ever OK or if he wanted to stay for dinner or actually treat him like he was more then some tool to be used and thrown away? no.

So you tell me what reason he had for doing anything for the 'good' side once Lily died and after he saved Potters life in first year thus no longer owing the life dept to his father.

Dumbledore didn't 'save' him. All he did was offer the Potter's protection in return for Snape's spying and even then he failed epically. Snape had absoutley no positive reason to work for Dumbles or the supposed 'good' side.

So why would this man, who you are trying to tell me is so selfish, be considered selfish if by definition he can not be selfish? what selfish or even what sane man would do any of the spying or the things that Snape did to help win the war? I wouldn't and I highly doubt many people would. After all, 16+ years of suffering and getting nothing and not even an ounce of happiness sounds like a crap deal.

The definition of selfish from the dictionary:

1.
devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
2.
characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself: selfish motives.


I don't see how doing things for others and Lily falls into that category.

Now don't get me wrong. I think Itachi is a hero too. I think they are both hero's. And honestly, I think they, in there own way, are tied. It's a tie. I think Snape but you have you're opinion. Don't try to convince me otherwise because i've done this song and dance with Snape haters millions of times before and I can go for days about this. So for your sanity and mine I just say we agree to disagree.
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xfire-spiritx
Snape.

Its not selfish if you are doing things that arn't for yourself. If snape was so selfish then what did he gain in those years of serving Albus, Spying, and protecting Potter? nothing.

He went into this full well knowing that he wasn't getting jack squat except for having to eventually teach and protect a stupid kid who doesn't know how to think before he acts.

Itachi had a crap life, Im not arguing that but in some ways Snape had it worse. All the dude wanted was a thank you from Dumbles or some acceptance and love and he never got it. sad



It was selfish because he only did it for Lily. He only wants acceptance, and when he couldn't get it from Lily, he tried to get it from the Death Eaters. The only reason Lily ranked higher was because Snape still felt guilty about what he did, whereas he never betrayed the trust of the Death Eaters.

He doesn't care about the wizarding world, or saving muggle-borns, or anything else really. All he cares about is Lily, and doing what he can to save her legacy. Coincidentally, the only person he seems to respect is Dumbledore, who is the only person that can save him.

Although he's doing it all for Lily, there's no sense of justice or heroics behind it. If Lily was evil, then Snape would be evil.
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Snape.

Its not selfish if you are doing things that arn't for yourself. If snape was so selfish then what did he gain in those years of serving Albus, Spying, and protecting Potter? nothing.

He went into this full well knowing that he wasn't getting jack squat except for having to eventually teach and protect a stupid kid who doesn't know how to think before he acts.

Itachi had a crap life, Im not arguing that but in some ways Snape had it worse. All the dude wanted was a thank you from Dumbles or some acceptance and love and he never got it. sad

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